Patrik Laine - Top-tier legend in the making?

[The Winter Soldier]

Yeah he had another one of those passes in the first minute of the game, sending Scheifele on partial breakaway but he tossed it. His passing skills are so underrated, but at the same time so transparent when you spend even a few minutes watching him on the powerplay. Laine can just beam the puck to Wheeler through all the sticks and traffic with almost laser sharp accuracy (sometimes even while using the back-hand).

By the way they are still containing him despite of finally giving him minutes. He was replaced by Copp (I think) immediately after that goal cause CBJ pulled the goalie. The game before that they pulled him out too similarly against the Preds (and replaced him with Hayes). Each scored goal could potentially add some extra $ on the next contract. Meanwhile when Connor was still in the first line, he played there until the very end, despite of not being exact prototype of a two-way player and the Jets having far more capable defensive end players in the lineup.

Anyway as long as he's not playing with you know who and getting some quality minutes, things are looking good and naturally the results will follow. Feels almost strange seeing him on the ice this much (18+ min/game), almost like watching another team entirely.

The Jets are a strange team this year. On paper they seem to be stacked. But the lines seem not working. What do you think if a team offer sheets Laine Kelsier. Imagine Laine on Carolina playing with Aho or on Long Island playing with Barzal?

 

[kelsier]

The Jets are a strange team this year. On paper they seem to be stacked. But the lines seem not working. What do you think if a team offer sheets Laine Kelsier. Imagine Laine on Carolina playing with Aho or on Long Island playing with Barzal?

I'm not sure if it's ever happened before, offer sheeting players coming out of the ELC but when you got a player of Laine's caliper I wouldn't count anything out. At the moment I'm sure he's content with getting the chance to play in the top line but I'm sure he knows he could be demoted anytime and I really doubt the long-term misuse is forgotten over a day, week or even months. Let alone being aware that all of this is practically just a side-effect from an organization being worried about the cap hit, all the while having his hands practically tied behind the back.

Carolina and Aho seem like a wet dream but who wouldn't drool about the idea of Barzal - Laine tandem either. Still, lets first have a look what our young man can do in the playoffs and afterwards see what's the actual outcome when the Jets are trying to squeeze $$ from him. At that point I'm sure they only hope that bygones are bygones, ha.

 

[kelsier]

Laine has been such a force in the playoffs, much much better than his stats would suggest (3+1 in 5 games). Now with that said, the best part of it all is that he's accomplished this despite of playing in the worst possibly combination for him, meaning ELL.

Somehow, despite of this unit having absolutely horrendous track-record, they still seem to find away to each other - sadly. Which alone speaks volumes about the ridiculous asset management from the Jets staff, mainly Maurice. Ehlers disappeared entirely last year in the playoffs and he's been one of the worst Jets wingers in this year's playoffs as well so nothing new there. Little is Little, a good 3rd line center. Meanwhile Laine and Connor have shown incredible chemistry along the year, but because Scheifele and Wheelers cannot function with Ehlers, that means he falls down for Laine to carry. Hayes - eventhough one could argue with a good conscience that he hasn't been all that great since arriving to Jets - just had a fantastic game against the Blues and is much better player than the early declined Little.

Laine could be playing with line mates such as Hayes, Connor, Perreault or even Roslovic. The Jets have a deep offensive pool. But no, he absolutely has to play with the dysfunctional mess known as the ELL. I cannot but help to wonder how it is even possible (when the team is fighting in the playoffs), let alone be baffled about Maurice's train of thought, or rather the lack of it. He seems like a man who doesn't accept the reality of something just not working even if he had a full season worth of experience watching the mess first hand and all the statistical data right under his nose. To waste away his best goal scorer day after day after day, of which does nothing but decrease the team's chances of running deep into the playoffs (let alone be bad for his development), just pushes the standards of incompetence to another level.

Anyway, this young man will be taking the first ship out of Winnipeg that becomes available. He'll be RFA after this season and probably already contemplating about the possible avenues while his agent is looking for teams' to sign him (with the cost of course) unless Jets come around and agree to trade him. Laine's inner circle wasn't happy about the way he had been handled, while this was some half a year ago, so I'm certain they are even less now. There's absolutely no way he will look up for yet another year of playing with inferior line mates, low and inconsistent ice time. Normally the first line plays 20 minutes a night no matter what, while he just might get 17+ if he happens to be absolutely terrific. If a trade or move doesn't work and he's stuck with the Jets, he'll sign a bridge deal and take the Trouba route out. Really saddens to see how he's been treated and misutilized.

The Jets have one game left to fix their line up, starting by dropping Little and Ehlers (if he's not injured already), then replace these guys with maybe Hayes and Perreault, that is if Connor isn't available. Otherwise we might be looking at Laine's last game in the Winnipeg.

 

[Yackiberg8]

I'm used to having this discussion pretty much every season and watch people take cheap shots at him just to go mute later on when Laine gets his game together. The man always gets around his dry spells one way or another and silences the 'not so friendly' audience.

As far as him having physical preconditions go, he certainly has never been a freak of nature despite of being taller than most of his peers. Physique definitely wasn't his strong suit going back to 16-17 or 17-18 and if you're suggesting that Laine was able to have the early success because of his build then you're off the trails pretty bad here. He didn't score 36 goals in the rookie year because he had a great shot. He scored those goals because he had the hockey IQ to overcome all the obstacles that where in the way of enabling the trigger. As far as stagnation go, well there where people saying he didn't only stagnate but took steps back in the development around the same time last year. Look how that turned out again.

His tendencies of having a slow or sluggish start is a trademark and usually by the midway of the season we're looking at a whole another player. My confidence in Laine hasn't shaken along the way and it certainly isn't shaking now, no matter the non-sparkling performance so far. It's only matter of time once he finds his game and confidence. With that said, looking long-term there'll be less roller coasting in terms of consistency and he's going to be more than just fine.

Linked here from a current thread.

Curious to here the take on Laine from some of his biggest fans after his strange season last year.

 

[EhlersChin]

Linked here from a current thread.

Curious to here the take on Laine from some of his biggest fans after his strange season last year.

Excellent inquiry, I would be disappointed in anything less then 80g/150pt season, Rocket, Hart Memorial, Ted Lindsay. Hes still so raw.

 

[Neutral Hockey Fan]

Linked here from a current thread.

Curious to here the take on Laine from some of his biggest fans after his strange season last year.

There are many posters in this thread that have said laine is the unquestioned best player from the 2016 draft. If that’s the case, the expectation should be (at minimum) to lead all 2016 draftees in basically all offensive categories, while also being a 2-way force (and maybe named as part of the jets leadership group)

Based on many responses in this very thread, this feat should be very attainable, and only moderately difficult for a 65-80 goal scorer

 

[Albatros]

There are many posters in this thread that have said laine is the unquestioned best player from the 2016 draft. If that’s the case, the expectation should be (at minimum) to lead all 2016 draftees in goals, assists, points, and basically all offensive categories, while also being a 2-way force (and maybe named as part of the jets leadership group)

The most recent player to have managed that would be Sidney Crosby, not exactly an annual feat.

 

[Neutral Hockey Fan]

The most recent player to have managed that would be Sidney Crosby, not exactly an annual feat.

Perhaps you mis-read.

I didn’t say he had to lead the league in those categories. All he has to do to prove he’s the best player from his own draft class, like many in this very thread have suggested he is.

That means outscoring all 2016 nhl draftees while being a defensive force (and showing his maturity and being known as a leader on his team)

Sidney Crosby was certainly NOT the last player to simply outshine his own personal draft class. Players do that all the time. It’s time for laine to step up and do the same (if he is to be know as a lengend, like this thread is suggesting). Time will tell if he can accomplish this rather small feat onmerely being the top player drafted in 2016. So far, NOT so good

 

[Matthews4Calder]

There are many posters in this thread that have said laine is the unquestioned best player from the 2016 draft. If that’s the case, the expectation should be (at minimum) to lead all 2016 draftees in goals, assists, points, and basically all offensive categories, while also being a 2-way force (and maybe named as part of the jets leadership group)

Based on many responses in this very thread, this feat should be very attainable, and only moderately difficult for a 65-80 goal scorer

Obviously many posters on here that don't have a clue what they're talking about.

 

[Albatros]

Perhaps you mis-read.

Nope.

I didn’t say he had to lead the league in those categories. All he has to do to prove he’s the best player from his own draft class, like many in this very thread have suggested he is.

That means outscoring all 2016 nhl draftees while being a defensive force (and showing his maturity and being known as a leader on his team)

Sidney Crosby was certainly NOT the last player to simply outshine his own personal draft class. Players do that all the time. It’s time for laine to step up and do the same (if he is to be know as a lengend, like this thread is suggesting). Time will tell if he can accomplish this rather small feat onmerely being the top player drafted in 2016. So far, NOT so good

False. Since Sidney Crosby there has not been another player that has led his draft class in goals, assists, etc. while being a defensive force and a leader.

Even Crosby was not quite the best defensive forward of his class with Kopitar drafted after him.

 

[Neutral Hockey Fan]

Nope.



False. Since Sidney Crosby there has not been another player that has led his draft class in goals, assists, etc. while being a defensive force and a leader.

Even Crosby was not quite the best defensive forward of his class with Kopitar drafted after him.

Clearly you don’t understand. You don’t need to win the selke to be good defensively. Crosby is very good defensively, even if he isn’t the greatest. Laine needs to be good defensively, while also being the best offensive producer of all 2016 nhl drafted players. That should be expected, based on many of the posts in this thread claiming he is legendary, and easily the best player of his draft class.

Your expectations of laine are obviously very low if you don’t agree with the premise of this very thread you are participating in. Many of the Finnish Five and The WinterSoldier have been quite vocal regarding laine and his superior ability compared to the Tkachuk’s and Matthews’ of the aforementioned 2016 draft. If you don’t believe laine is a legendary hockey player, why not argue against the posters claiming he is, as opposed to those that agree with you that laine is a very flawed player that doesn’t compare to other players in his age group

 

[Albatros]

I absolutely do understand, and like I said, there has been no one since Crosby that leads his draft class in "every offensive category" while being "a force defensively" and "a leader."

Offensively you have a couple of guys, namely Tavares, Seguin, and McDavid, but none of them are resembling anything like a defensive force.

 

[grieves]

There have been some usage and chemistry issues with the Jets regarding Laine (and Laine for example scored 40 goals (44 actually) in less time than anyone since ice-time has been recorded. Nowadays everyone and their mama agree that Laine does not have good chemistry with his most common center that he has been playing with for 3 years.

He will still be 21 after the last regular season game of next season, so I don't get why so many people are in a hurry to judge. Just wait. He will enter his prime in 3 years (maybe later because of the big body), and right now he is a historic teenage goal-scorer.

Why such a rush?

 

[Neutral Hockey Fan]

I absolutely do understand, and like I said, there has been no one since Crosby that leads his draft class in "every offensive category" while being "a force defensively" and "a leader."

Offensively you have a couple of guys, namely Tavares, Seguin, and McDavid, but none of them are resembling anything like a defensive force.

In the post above, I merely stated he needed to lead the 2016 nhl draft class in offensive production. I didn’t say “every single offensive category”, and you seem to be hung up on the word “force”. Simply replace the word force with good. Laine needs to be the best offensive player of his draft class, while merely being good defensively in order to have the “best player from his draft class” tag that so many Finnish posters are already proclaiming laine to have.

As you have agreed, nobody with any sort of objective view of laine would currently claim he is anything short of a disaster away from the puck. Incredible shot, but lacking in all other facets of the game. With that, I agree with you

Like I said, for a Guy people are predicting 70+ goal seasons and 140+ points per seasons from, it really shouldn’t be an issue to be the top offensive producer from a single draft class, while being good defensively, and have leadership qualities (obviously the rumblings about laine not respecting the jets leadership group are not good)

But, like you have said, you have a far less optimistic expectation for “legendary” Laine than the Finnish Five plus The WinterSoldier have

 

[Albatros]

In the post above, I merely stated he needed to lead the 2016 nhl draft class in offensive production. I didn’t say “every single offensive category”, and you seem to be hung up on the word “force”.

Your current version of the post says:

If that’s the case, the expectation should be (at minimum) to lead all 2016 draftees in basically all offensive categories, while also being a 2-way force (and maybe named as part of the jets leadership group)

And like I pointed out, the last player to achieve that (of his own draft class) was Sidney Crosby. It's such a rare achievement that only a couple of players in league history have managed it, and that doesn't include Wayne Gretzky. If you want to lower the bar to leading the draft class in goals or points and not being rubbish defensively then that's more fair and achievable surely. Frankly it's where Laine should be heading to absolutely and if he doesn't of course one can't be fully happy with it.

Myself I see Laine as more of a Brett Hull type in terms of upside, less multidimensional surely, but that's not automatically a bad thing if his dimensions of excellence are to be among the very best all time. Then again Hull was drafted together with Mario Lemieux, so what could he do. Some might point out that even Mario had a reputation of being lazy defensively and the habit of chain smoking might not compare well even to Fortnite.

Simply replace the word force with good. Laine needs to be the best offensive player of his draft class, while merely being good defensively in order to have the “best player from his draft class” tag that so many Finnish posters are already proclaiming laine to have.

I guess the discussion then would be whether Tavares and McDavid are "good" defensively? It would feel a bit generous even in their case, and Seguin for sure isn't. I can foresee Laine being the best goal scorer of his draft class, not all too hazardous defensively, and eventually wearing an A somewhere. Is that going to count as a success or a failure? I would be content with it.

 

[MMANumminen]

If they're gonna plant Laine next to Little again I'm seriously considering skipping watching Jets games.

I am expecting bounce back year from him, 40+30

 

[EhlersChin]

The 1st post and that wall of incredible accolades lol seem so long ago. The last post was over a year ago. Let's bump this baby and get the 80g predictions going. Hes still so raw.

 

[m0rkoli]

Need to SEE HOCKEY....

 

[grieves]

The 1st post and that wall of incredible accolades lol seem so long ago. The last post was over a year ago. Let's bump this baby and get the 80g predictions going. Hes still so raw.

That's not a bad idea. I completely stand behind my first post still. Put Laine in the correct environment and there is a lot more there.

I get it is tough to see if you don't watch the Jets closely and understand what is going on. 80g in modern hockey is a TAD overly optimistic but top-tier legend level is achievable.

Or then I'm wrong, that is also a possibility, but nothing so far has convinced me of that.

 

[rubikscube]

Oh boy. I'm not sure I've seen a thread with more awful takes/analysis than this one

 

[EhlersChin]

That's not a bad idea. I completely stand behind my first post still. Put Laine in the correct environment and there is a lot more there.

I get it is tough to see if you don't watch the Jets closely and understand what is going on. 80g in modern hockey is a TAD overly optimistic but top-tier legend level is achievable.

Or then I'm wrong, that is also a possibility, but nothing so far has convinced me of that.

What? Let's see your tier ranking. Let me guess, Laine is in the same tier or one above McDavid. I can't imagine what tier Laine would be in if he was "used in the correct environment" LOL, your words.

Go back and re-read some of your takes and the others in this thread, its embarrassing to say the least. How about that comparison to 66 haha, yikes.

All that being said, let's see some more of those incredible stats and graphs. At least in this thread we can pretend Laine is the greatest player ever.

 

[EhlersChin]

What's your expectations for him going into 18-19?

I'd be willing to bet his going to be married with Little for the good and for the bad (basically the latter). It's a contract season for Laine and so far I've seen nothing but the opposite from the Jets trying to really invest in him. The 2 minute drop in the aTOI from 16-17 to 17-18 speaks more than anything to be honest and indicates that the organization wants him signed as cheap as possible. That's why they did nothing for ~half a year while the ELL was struggling and they certainly didn't anticipate Stastny boosting Laine as hard as he did. I think he's going to be used similarly to last season, with ice time raising from 16+ to 17+ minute per game. If he scores 40 goals and has as many assists I'd be happy. Afterwards I hope he demands a 11 million deal for the services and settles for nothing less. There's going to be a team out there ready and willing to throw in the four 1st rounders to acquire and I'm sure he knows this. That's some leverage at least.

I think 1st line Laine with 20+ min aTOI would score close to 100 points, but I don't see him getting the prime minutes. Of course I hope to be wrong but after everything, I think not. Suppose we'll see soon enough won't we.

Safe to say your 18-19 prediction was way off, 100pts lol. Are you still hoping he "demands 11m and nothing less"?. Also safe to say not a single team would give 4 firsts for Laine now or back when you posted that.

All that said let's get this years predictions, bud. Please save all the excuses "correct environment", "bad back", "so raw" ect. Do you think this is they year he proves he is in the same conversation as the #1 pick from the 16 draft or the distance between them becomes even larger?

 

[EhlersChin]

I think we all know Laine is a good player, but how good exactly?

I was thinking I would start a new thread open for anyone to comment, because there is a lot commotion going on in the Jets thread and the mods are over-worked and probably quite irritated already. I though this might ease everyones' lives and allow non-Jets fans to also comment.

The reason I ask the question in the thread is this:

2015-16 Liiga Rookie of the Year.
2015-16 Liiga Rookie Goals Leader.
2015-16 Liiga Rookie Points Leader.
2015-16 Liiga Playoff MVP and Champion.
2015-16 Liiga Playoff Goals Leader.
2015-16 Liiga Record Setter for Most Playoff Goals By a Rookie.
2016 World Junior All Star Team.
2016 World Junior Gold Medal.
2016 World Junior Goals Leader.
2015 U-18 All Star Team.
2015 U-18 Silver Medal.
2015 U-18 Goals Leader.
2016 World Championship MVP.
2016 World Championship Silver Medal.
2016 World Championship All-Star Team.
2016 World Championship, IIHF Directorate Award for Best Forward.
2016 World Championship, Award for Top 3 Player on Team.
2016 World Championship Goals Leader.
2016 World Championship Record Setter for Most Goals by a Player in First Year of NHL Draft Eligibility.
2016 World Championship Record Setter for Most Points by a Player in First Year of NHL Draft Eligibility.
Highest Point Total by a U-18 Player at a World Championship Tournament (Previous record doubled).
Youngest player ever to score three hat tricks in the NHL
Fastest 18 Year-old to achieve 30 goals in the NHL (era-adjusted)
Led the league in PP goals as a U20 player (only player to reach 20 PP goals in 17-18 season)
3rd European teenager ever to reach 100 career points in the NHL
Longest point streak by a teenager in NHL history at 14 games
Scored 40 goals in less ice-time than anyone in the NHL since ice-time has been recorded (44 Goals averaging 16:29 TOI)


You think that's it? Nope, check this out (from user jepjepjoo, the blower of minds):


Last 25 years rookie + sophomore goal scoring (at any age):

1. Ovechkin 98 goals (3505mins TOI, 998mins PPTOI)
2.Laine 80 goals (2659mins TOI, 448 PPTOI)
2.Malkin 80 goals (3243mins TOI, 861mins PPTOI)
4.Crosby 74 goals (3270mins TOI, 920mins PPTOI)

There are no ice time records for the 80's, but Gretzky still averaged 21:04 in his last season. If he averaged the same in his first 2 nhl season that would put him at 3350 mins and 31:36 per goal while Laine is at 33:14. Gretzky would have to average 22:10 TOI per game to place him right behind Laine at 33:15. Highly likely he averaged more than 22:10 per game.

Bossy on the other hand would have to play a whopping 26:31 per game to place him behind Laine with 33:15 per goal.

1. Laine 33:14
2. Ovechkin 35:46 (122.8% more PPtoi than Laine)
3. Malkin 40:32 (92.2%)
4. Crosby 44:11 (105.4%)

Selänne would have to play more than 24:52 for him to be behind Laine.

My best guess is:

1.Bossy
2.Selänne
3.Laine


I think that's pretty incredible from a teenager. Close to impossible.

Let's take a walk down memory lane, wow what a post that was lulz.
Is this the year Laine hits that 80g season? I want to hear what Laines fans think of their idol this year. Any predictions or projections? Would also like to see any graphs made last year, or do we pretend it (last year) didn't happen?

 

[Jakeybonz]

Boy is he overrated. He’s too damn slow. I mean, ok player, but without his shot, does he play in the NHL?

Agreed 100%. Totally one dimensional.

 

[heksagon]

Let's take a walk down memory lane, wow what a post that was lulz.
Is this the year Laine hits that 80g season? I want to hear what Laines fans think of their idol this year. Any predictions or projections? Would also like to see any graphs made last year, or do we pretend it (last year) didn't happen?

That post was not predicting a 80 goal season for Laine, that's just his rookie and sophomore seasons goal totals added up.