Patrik Laine - Top-tier legend in the making?

Discussion in 'Finland' started by grieves, Aug 24, 2018.

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  1. grieves

    grieves Positivity & Responsibility = Good things

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    I think we all know Laine is a good player, but how good exactly?

    I was thinking I would start a new thread open for anyone to comment, because there is a lot commotion going on in the Jets thread and the mods are over-worked and probably quite irritated already. I though this might ease everyones' lives and allow non-Jets fans to also comment.

    The reason I ask the question in the thread is this:

    2015-16 Liiga Rookie of the Year.
    2015-16 Liiga Rookie Goals Leader.
    2015-16 Liiga Rookie Points Leader.
    2015-16 Liiga Playoff MVP and Champion.
    2015-16 Liiga Playoff Goals Leader.
    2015-16 Liiga Record Setter for Most Playoff Goals By a Rookie.
    2016 World Junior All Star Team.
    2016 World Junior Gold Medal.
    2016 World Junior Goals Leader.
    2015 U-18 All Star Team.
    2015 U-18 Silver Medal.
    2015 U-18 Goals Leader.
    2016 World Championship MVP.
    2016 World Championship Silver Medal.
    2016 World Championship All-Star Team.
    2016 World Championship, IIHF Directorate Award for Best Forward.
    2016 World Championship, Award for Top 3 Player on Team.
    2016 World Championship Goals Leader.
    2016 World Championship Record Setter for Most Goals by a Player in First Year of NHL Draft Eligibility.
    2016 World Championship Record Setter for Most Points by a Player in First Year of NHL Draft Eligibility.
    Highest Point Total by a U-18 Player at a World Championship Tournament (Previous record doubled).
    Youngest player ever to score three hat tricks in the NHL
    Fastest 18 Year-old to achieve 30 goals in the NHL (era-adjusted)
    Led the league in PP goals as a U20 player (only player to reach 20 PP goals in 17-18 season)
    3rd European teenager ever to reach 100 career points in the NHL
    Longest point streak by a teenager in NHL history at 14 games
    Scored 40 goals in less ice-time than anyone in the NHL since ice-time has been recorded (44 Goals averaging 16:29 TOI)


    You think that's it? Nope, check this out (from user jepjepjoo, the blower of minds):


    Last 25 years rookie + sophomore goal scoring (at any age):

    1. Ovechkin 98 goals (3505mins TOI, 998mins PPTOI)
    2.Laine 80 goals (2659mins TOI, 448 PPTOI)
    2.Malkin 80 goals (3243mins TOI, 861mins PPTOI)
    4.Crosby 74 goals (3270mins TOI, 920mins PPTOI)

    There are no ice time records for the 80's, but Gretzky still averaged 21:04 in his last season. If he averaged the same in his first 2 nhl season that would put him at 3350 mins and 31:36 per goal while Laine is at 33:14. Gretzky would have to average 22:10 TOI per game to place him right behind Laine at 33:15. Highly likely he averaged more than 22:10 per game.

    Bossy on the other hand would have to play a whopping 26:31 per game to place him behind Laine with 33:15 per goal.

    1. Laine 33:14
    2. Ovechkin 35:46 (122.8% more PPtoi than Laine)
    3. Malkin 40:32 (92.2%)
    4. Crosby 44:11 (105.4%)

    Selänne would have to play more than 24:52 for him to be behind Laine.

    My best guess is:

    1.Bossy
    2.Selänne
    3.Laine


    I think that's pretty incredible from a teenager. Close to impossible.
     
  2. kelsier

    kelsier Registered User

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    This is great, cheers grieves! Also a nice way to fire up a topic with Laine's accomplishments from the past. We can use them for future reference as well as a reminder, plus I'm sure he might even contribute more going forward in case the list should ever be updated. There are so many Laine fans out there and now there's a common ground for all to talk about him (which of course doesn't exclude fans from other nationalities).

    Here's my expectations for next season: he's going to own them all and bring home all carriable hardware. ;)

    Looks like his beard made it into cover of the next NHL:
     
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  3. Ippenator

    Ippenator Registered User

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    Extremely impressive each of those lists! One thing is still that Laine was much younger and also much rawer as a player than Selänne was in the NHL. So Selänne got to play almost from the start constantly on the 1st line and also great amounts on the powerplay. I think he played clearly more than Laine on the PP already then.

    Anyway, I’m pretty sure we have seen nothing from Pate yet. I honestly think that he has been physically still so raw that it’s absolutely amazing what kind of end results (goals, points and 5 on 5 goal difference) he has been able to achieve already. And what makes it especially amazing is that he has been playing mostly in the second line with quite low minutes and without any elite playmakers and without too good line chemistry.

    Why I exactly expect him to really become a very special player in the whole league, is because he has extremely high hockey IQ and extremely high motivation to do everything possible to develop himself. And as he already has the best shot in the world and also very good skills otherwise too, the extremely high hockey IQ and the extremely high drive and motivation to develop should really push him to develop still so much that I really am expecting a lot of people to be completely shocked and eating lots of crow in a couple of years. This season could be already quite a breakout for him. I definitely hope so. A lot will have to do though with who he gets to play with and what kind of a role and icetime he gets in the team. Getting very excited for the season already!
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2018
  4. grieves

    grieves Positivity & Responsibility = Good things

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    Selänne was 22 in his rookie season so that is a huge leap in terms of player development. 20yo Bossy (and Teemu to a lesser extent) was scoring in a much higher-scoring era. Just incredible. Unbelievable.

    Proof or it didn't happen (18 & 19yo Laine goals):




    I also am down for some hockey!
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2018
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  5. kelsier

    kelsier Registered User

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    Yeah it's pretty incredible that he's being even in the same sentence with those guys and being barely out of teen years. If you add in the circumstances I would say even more astonishing. The funny thing is that had he landed in the Edmonton instead, his rookie and sophomore year numbers would have looked even more unbelievable. But then again, he would have ended up in McDavid's shadow for the rest of his career probably and I prefer him to make his own legacy. So far so good. Next year could be a big one if he's finally slotted in the primary scoring role with top player's TOI. Maybe not signing contract before the ELC ended was a good move strategically, we'll see soon enough (or well, in ~month and a half).
     
  6. The Winter Soldier

    The Winter Soldier RIP Fugu

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    Laine is the best player picked from the 2016 draft. He is a beast professional athlete. The BPA. The legend is only going to grow this year. The only 80 teenage goal scorer from the 2016 draft and decade.
    Can't wait to see what he does for an encore at age 20 and up.
     
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  7. Ippenator

    Ippenator Registered User

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    What I have been quite much lately thinking about is why Laine’s defensive play seems to be really perceived as weak by many hockey fans. I mean, there’s quite a lot of hockey fans, both North Americans and Finnish, that seem to really think that Laine plays pretty bad defensively. What they are really seeing as their main point? Usually the claim is just that he simply plays bad defense, but when we look at the statistics he is in fact the best Jet together with Scheifele in allowed goals on 5 on 5 hockey during the last two seasons. So what are really the real points with these claims?

    If the claims are just because of his a bit lower Corsi, then it really doesn’t hold well ground in my opinion. With Laine’s sniper accurate shooting that isn’t really a too meaningful stat, as he is using his chances really well, and he has been doing it already so well for two full seasons in the NHL.

    Also even if he gets some shots against him, he is still playing defense in a way where he is not very actively trying to get takeaways, but is more trying to just keep the opponent away from the best scoring and passing chances, with his smart positioning and with his great reach in taking out the passing lanes. He doesn’t seriously give the opponents much of quality scoring chances.

    Also Laine is usually the first in his line to get back to help his defensemen when a turnover happens, so he is in fact helping very well to take out the most dangerous scoring chances that are the man advantage counter attacks. Those happen in fact very rarely when he is on the ice.

    I just see it so that there is a pretty much made up false myth about his defending, mostly based on his pretty average Corsi stats and also how he definitely doesn’t look too active with his defense,
    as he is defending mostly with his positional defending and not even trying too much actively to get takeaways..

    What I’m confused about is that how his kind of defending is really bad, when it clearly leads into the opponents scoring much, much less on the 5 on 5 play against the Jets when he is on the ice? Would be just good to know some well based opinions about this, as this is really quite confusing to me.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2018
  8. Keduzin

    Keduzin Registered User

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    I am sure Laine will tear all the critics a new one this season. While waiting for the season to start I will keep on watching this on daily bases for the countdown

     
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  9. kelsier

    kelsier Registered User

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    That shot, there's no words for it.. just insane. Something that will pot him 60 goals at least once if not twice in his career and when he finally plays the top minutes he should be perennial 50 goal scorer. I mean what else can you expect from a kid who was able to do 44 goals while playing 16:30 per game (not to mention mostly in a dysfunctional unit). The Jets management makes it really difficult to predict what his production will look like at 18-19 since we're dealing with many uncertainties, such as TOI and line mate(s) (Little being forced again into the mix?). If he doesn't break at least 18min aTOI at 18-19 then I'd imagine even his patience running out. Hope that doesn't happen though.

    Wonder what the pre-season will be like. Will they again try out all combos or are they dead set on slotting him in the second? Last year he had just scored a 5 point night in the top line before the real games started. Then he just magically dropped out like he wasn't good enough and never got a fair chance again. Would be a cruel joke if something like that repeated. Suppose it's entirely possible they don't even try this and instead just plays him with Ehlers and whoever.

    He kind of needs the contract and then again he doesn't. I think both sides are pulling it as a leverage at the moment as it has pretty significant impact on the ice time. A happy Laine might be more reasonable while signing extension and I hope they bank on this, which could mean they'd let him loose and not care about how the results would affect on the income.

    Anyway, what's another month or so while waiting for the opening (pretty much a frigging eternity). :D

    Meanwhile that's not a bad vid to waste time with!
     
  10. Se829ne

    Se829ne Registered User

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    @grieves As requested in a PM, and posted as relevant matter to the thread:

    [​IMG]

    Goal scoring charts include my personal interpretations, and because of used graphic representation there are some minor inaccuracies in exact placements of spots. Overview is however as accurate as possible in this scale. First 2 seasons:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    There are other Graph-material too about Patrik, but it's either not up to date, or someway unfinished to be published.

    I'll gonna follow his career (whatever it may prove to be) and my intention is to make, and keep updated these kind graphs about his basic stats. I do the work manually 'pixel by pixel' (being sometimes unable to post a graph even if it's up to date for reasons not entirely upon me or my understanding ;)), so everyone understand that there can be delays.

    HC-Fan of Laine, with 4th liner mentality. Cheers! o/
     
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  11. grieves

    grieves Positivity & Responsibility = Good things

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    Yeah that shot is something else. To that end:


     
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  12. kelsier

    kelsier Registered User

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    Woah, that Wheelers deal! Maaaaajor overpayment for an aging player with no discount whatsover. Don't got the slightest idea why they would dump all those dollars on him. I'd have offered that to Trouba much rather than someone who's 32 years old (no matter how good). It's not even just to AAV but the length, 5 years. Does anyone have a clue on how much they have left to sign Laine after next year (and Morrisey for that matter)? Seriously, quite mind-blowing and this could mean an end a road to one of the youngsters in the Jets. Also I wonder if this means Laine being used as a secondary scorer for another year straight cause they hell as sure can't afford him to have a huge contract year, RFA or not.
     
  13. tacogeoff

    tacogeoff Registered User

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    Winnipeg Jets - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

    They currently have 10 mill in cap space left this season but still have to resign Jmo

    Next season the big players to resign are Laine and Connor. Other notables whose contracts come to an end are Myers, Trouba and Copp.

    Chevy is going to be busy wheeling and dealing to free up some cap space.

    I don't mind the Wheeler signing. sure the contract is long but he is a great player. Only way I lose my mind is if we move any of our talented youth instead of Little or MP.
     
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  14. kelsier

    kelsier Registered User

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    Didn't watch the game but looks like nothing has changed. The NHL's worst 2nd line is back together again, "yay". :D

    Is there any better way to keep Laine at the bay? Can't really figure out that many. Almost willing to bet $ they won't even contemplate on the idea of trying Roslovic there, let alone actually provide him the chance (just imagine the horror if that actually worked out).
     
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  15. The Winter Soldier

    The Winter Soldier RIP Fugu

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  16. kelsier

    kelsier Registered User

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    What's your expectations for him going into 18-19?

    I'd be willing to bet his going to be married with Little for the good and for the bad (basically the latter). It's a contract season for Laine and so far I've seen nothing but the opposite from the Jets trying to really invest in him. The 2 minute drop in the aTOI from 16-17 to 17-18 speaks more than anything to be honest and indicates that the organization wants him signed as cheap as possible. That's why they did nothing for ~half a year while the ELL was struggling and they certainly didn't anticipate Stastny boosting Laine as hard as he did. I think he's going to be used similarly to last season, with ice time raising from 16+ to 17+ minute per game. If he scores 40 goals and has as many assists I'd be happy. Afterwards I hope he demands a 11 million deal for the services and settles for nothing less. There's going to be a team out there ready and willing to throw in the four 1st rounders to acquire and I'm sure he knows this. That's some leverage at least.

    I think 1st line Laine with 20+ min aTOI would score close to 100 points, but I don't see him getting the prime minutes. Of course I hope to be wrong but after everything, I think not. Suppose we'll see soon enough won't we.
     
  17. The Winter Soldier

    The Winter Soldier RIP Fugu

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    This is a good question. A million dollar question for Laine. Contract wise. I always saw Laine needing a period of adjustment before he exploded in the NHL. Happens to many Finnish developed players. I think Laine will be better this year. But will he have the opportunity? I think conservatively speaking he will have another 40+ goal season. It is almost impossible to stop his shot when he gets it off. The question is who will he play with? I would like him to play with Wheeler and Scheifele. I think this could be the best line in hockey. But again with Mediocre Maurice as coach. It will be surprising. So a 40 goal and possible 50 goal season is my prediction if Patrik stays healthy.
     
  18. kelsier

    kelsier Registered User

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    Of course Scheifele would be the most ideal line mate for him, since they think the game the same level. That's not the problem though, it's how the team spreads the ice time and instead of using 1a & 1b type of a setup, I fear it's always going to be just 1st 2nd 3rd and 4th lines. So when he's assigned to play with Little in the second line, where's that extra ice time going to come?

    Also unlike most people think that Maurice is the problem because he's too stuck up with his old habits and cannot learn new tricks, I don't think that applies in Laine's case. The team has systematically been unhelpful with him whether it came down to winning Calder or when it came down to winning Rocket. The first time around (when Jets had officially been thrown out of the playoffs) instead of playing him with Scheifele, they assigned him with Little. The next year when he was in the rocket race, they nearly dragged Laine off the ice if the opposing net was empty and the team had a two goal lead.

    The Jets management is aware that hardware = $$$ and the same applies to points. Imagine for a minute if he had won Rocket for instance over Ovy, how would that play out in the negotiation table? Not that good from the Jets perspective. So until Laine has signed the contract, they will keep on trying not to get the best out of him. Reuniting him with Little again this season? Are you frigging kidding me! Did they even try him with Roslovic during the pre-season? I think not (didn't watch the games so not 100% but nonetheless). Every statistics along with the eye-proof tells Little is the worst center you could throw at him. Furthermore, forcing him to play RW as opposed to his natural position in order to justify having another guy on top of him (Wheelers) is just the tip of the iceberg. So no, I don't think Maurice is the problem as he's just doing what he's told to do. I think eventually Laine will get bored of it all cause it's not in his nature to settle for secondary roles and if things continue to run as they have so far, I think by the end of the season the **** will hit the fan if he no longer wants in. With no contract they really have no control over him and like I said, even the RFA might not be enough of an firewall when it came to player of this caliper.

    I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for a few games and see if they'll split the minutes evenly between the top players, but I'm certainly not expecting nothing of the kind.
     
  19. kelsier

    kelsier Registered User

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    Exactly like I anticipated. At the end of last season they told him to prepare for more minutes. While his aTOI was as low as 16:29 in the 17-18, instead of going up, he's currently sitting with 15:49 at 18-19. Who were the line mates in the first game? Erm, the guy he works the worst with and another one not even close to an elite player. Patrik's got elite environment to be the top Art Ross candidate this year. :D

    I wouldn't rule out the possibility of him packing his packs and taking the first flight out of Winnipeg after the season was over and done with. The Jets are the best what comes down to alienating young promising star players.
     
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  20. The Winter Soldier

    The Winter Soldier RIP Fugu

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    Hey Kelsier, The BPA with 2 pts in 15 mins of play last night. I hope he is going to get more than 15 a night. Or it may be a repeat of last year. Still a nice start for Patrik.
     
  21. kelsier

    kelsier Registered User

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    Another 15 minute game. Try keep up with the point race with those minutes and below the par line mates. He was the only one in the line who didn't look bad. They are really going to make him earn that contract by serving absolutely nothing on the plate. If anything only making it as hard as hell for him. What happened to the "get ready for more minutes"? Such a joke, ha. Wonder who said that in the begin with, was it Maurice, Chevy or someone else entirely in the organization he trusted? Like I said he could be packing up his packs by the end of the season and I can't say I didn't anticipate that even before the puck drop at 5th of October 2018.
     
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  22. gwh

    gwh Registered User

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    Another year to test whether 3rd liner minutes can produce a Rocket.
     
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  23. The Winter Soldier

    The Winter Soldier RIP Fugu

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    It would take a slump for Maurice to put Laine on the top line, instead of playing him 3rd line mins. I would drop Wheeler back to the 2nd line. But that's me.
     
  24. Lowlife

    Lowlife Registered User

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    Boy is he overrated. He’s too damn slow. I mean, ok player, but without his shot, does he play in the NHL?
     
  25. thunder16

    thunder16 Registered User

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    No He's not, Here a hint.....It starts with an Auston and ends with a Mathews. That's who the best player is from the 2016 draft.

    Edit: If you are talking a legend in Finland knock yourself out. If you are talking world wide, we know who it is and it's not Laine.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2018
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