Player Discussion: Patrik Laine (mod warning in post #150)

[Ippenator]

You asked were any of them 19, which Laine won't be next season, he'll be 20y with 2 years under his belt in the league, for which the answer is yes. By that age we start to see superstars take their place in the league.

Laine doesn't need to be top5 player next year but with where he was drafted, the potential he was seen at the draft and what he has shown in his 1st 2 seasons next year he should take a good development step and have games where he starts to take over games.

In his prime I hope to see a nightmare to play against Laine who's a top5 player in the league, he has the potential for it, one of the best shots in the league with a 6'4 frame.

It's somewhat weird here at times when you read the crazy 120 point/60+ goal predictions for him and later read the player they expect Laine to be, a 1 dimensional finisher whose game is not going to get that much better.

No one has said here that he should be just a one dimensional finisher. But yes, definitely still always a finisher/sniper at heart. A player with that kind of an amazing shot will always first of all be trying to score goals, as that is how he will benefit his team the best. Sure he can become better in other areas too, and more like a versatile kind of a sniper whom can take occasionally more of a playmaking role when it’s really needed. But it’s naive to think that any other role would still be more emphasized for him than the finisher role. With the shot like he has, any other player would also be first of all a finisher/sniper.

It somehow seems to me that you are wanting him to become something like Lemieux, but forgetting that first of all Laine is not a center and most probably will never be one, so his role will not even because of that concentrate so much in playmaking, and also especially because he has the amazing shot he has. Also Laine has an even better shot than Lemieux had, although Lemieux had a great shot too, but he had even better areas in his game. Laine’s shot is still so clearly his best area that it’s not likely that any other area of skill will ever be for him at the same level with his shot, even when he will most probably still develop several areas of his play. If you are having some Lemieux kind of daydreams about Laine or something even similar to that, then now is the time to let them go and have a reality check.

If you have some weird disapproval towards him being first of all the best goal scorer in the game and only after that being something else with his game, then you are also still then setting yourself up for a disappointment.

Strange thing how some people seem to devalue the meaning of a player being first of all a goal scorer, when the main purpose of the game is goal scoring and that has even become more difficult in modern hockey.

 

[1OApick]

All this negativity. Imagine if he gets 50+ goals next season and we win Stanley cup. Should keep this positive.

 

[Psych0dad]

It would be really, really difficult to keep Laine under 50 goals without injury next season.

I don't know about the cup, but a full season Laine will give 60+ goals to the Jets in regular season if used right (1st line minutes and max PP). There is no way, no how, that the current first line wingers could ever get anywhere close to the totals he can get. There's no sensible or rational argument there.

 

[BB88]

No one has said here that he should be just a one dimensional finisher. But yes, definitely still always a finisher/sniper at heart. A player with that kind of an amazing shot will always first of all be trying to score goals, as that is how he will benefit his team the best. Sure he can become better in other areas too, and more like a versatile kind of a sniper whom can take occasionally more of a playmaking role when it’s really needed. But it’s naive to think that any other role would still be more emphasized for him than the finisher role. With the shot like he has, any other player would also be first of all a finisher/sniper.

It somehow seems to me that you are wanting him to become something like Lemieux, but forgetting that first of all Laine is not a center and most probably will never be one, so his role will not even because of that concentrate so much in playmaking, and also especially because he has the amazing shot he has. Also Laine has an even better shot than Lemieux had, although Lemieux had a great shot too, but he had even better areas in his game. Laine’s shot is still so clearly his best area that it’s not likely that any other area of skill will ever be for him at the same level with his shot, even when he will most probably still develop several areas of his play. If you are having some Lemieux kind of daydreams about Laine or something even similar to that, then now is the time to let them go and have a reality check.

If you have some weird disapproval towards him being first of all the best goal scorer in the game and only after that being something else with his game, then you are also still then setting yourself up for a disappointment.

Strange thing how some people seem to devalue the meaning of a player being first of all a goal scorer, when the main purpose of the game is goal scoring and that has even become more difficult in modern hockey.

It's amazing how you think being more dangerous player takes away from his scoring, it would just help his scoring.

He has a 6'4 frame, he could be a physical beast with the best shot in the league, a nightmare to stop, now turn that into a negative.

Laine has struggled with creating 5on5 so far, the more he can create the more he can score goals/points, improve skating and get stronger.

 

[Ippenator]

It's amazing how you think being more dangerous player takes away from his scoring, it would just help his scoring.

I'll say it again, he has a 6'4 frame, he could be a physical beast with the best shot in the league, a nightmare to stop, now turn that into a negative.

It’s amazing that you don’t understand that the player with the best shot in the game will always be and will always be considered a sniper. No matter how dangerous he is by all means, his most dangerous thing will be his shot and thus he will always be still most of all a sniper. I guess it’s really more about semantics after all. But it seems to me that you are afraid of the word sniper in hockey. You probably think that it is somehow degrading? There are always players with different strengths and also players with not so clear strengths but quite balanced skillset. I perefer special talent over just some balanced skillset, or some kind of an all around guy whom you can use in every situation, but you don’t get great amount of goals and points. Of course all kind of players are needed, but still the special talent like Laine with his scoring, is something really worth of watching.

I’m not talking here about what I wish Laine to be, but what I know that players with the best shots in the league are always going to be. They are going to be first of all goalscorers aka snipers. Being a sniper doesn’t have to mean that a player is still a completely onesided player, although the clear emphasis in his play is still to score goals. With Laine’s skillset I can see him being in the future one of the most versatile and scary snipers that hockey has ever seen. But still he will be a sniper by the real essence of his play. Just capable of doing many other things well too.

 

[BB88]

It’s amazing that uou don’t understand that the player with the best shot in the game will always be and will always ne considered a sniper, no matter how dangerous he is by all means, his most dangerous thing will be his shot and this he will always be still most of all a sniper. I guess it’s really more about semantics probably. But it seems to me that you are afraid of the word sniper in hockey. You probably think that it is somehow degrading? There are always players with different strengths and also players with not so clear strengths but quite balanced skillset.

I’m not talking here about what I wish Laine to be, but what I know that players with the best shot are always going to be. They are going to be first of all goalscorers aka snipers. Being a sniper doesn’t have to mean that a player is still a completely onesided player, although the clear emphasis in his play is still to score goals. With Laine’s skillset I can see him being in the future one of the most versatile and scary snipers that hockey has ever seen. But still he will be a sniper the real essential of his play. Just capable of doing many other things well too.

What are you even talking about?

Who has said Laines shot can't be his biggest strenght, who has said he can't snipe goals? It's like you can't accept he could do that while being a better player.

I'll say it again, becoming a more dangerous players helps him score more goals, not less.
He can have that shot but he can be a nightmare to play against, or otherwise there's no point with the crazy expectations/comparisons to the best, complimentary sniper won't be among the best in the league.

To your previous post still none of Ovy/Kane/Marchand/Wheeler/Panarin are C's and they can drive a play, they score points and can be nightmares to play against. Prime Ovy/Kane/Marchand are among the best players in the league.

 

[Ippenator]

What are you even talking about?

Who has said Laines shot can't be his biggest strenght, who has said he can't snipe goals? It's like you can't accept he could do that while being a better player.

I'll say it again, becoming a more dangerous players helps him score more goals, not less.
He can have that shot but he can be a nightmare to play against, or otherwise there's no point with the crazy expectations/comparisons to the best, complimentary sniper won't be among the best in the league.

To your previous post still none of Ovy/Kane/Marchand/Wheeler/Panarin are C's and they can drive a play, they score points and can be nightmares to play against. Prime Ovy/Kane/Marchand are among the best players in the league.

Ovechkin is a 100% sniper still. Just a more versatile one for sure. The others don’t have a good enough shot to concentrate so much in the sniper type of game.

Your reply really confirmed it to me that you are afraid of a player being a sniper and you think it’s somehow lower class. Some of the best snipers have been great and versatile players, like Lafleur, Selänne, Bure and Ovechkin. What are you so afraid of? Laine will never be the player that you seem to desperately want him to be. You clearly want him to be something else that will not be a natural thing for a player with his kind of a skillset. You are setting yourself for an enormous disappointment and it will most probably make you dislike Laine very much in the future, if you have so drastic expectations, that he in your opinion will change from being a sniper by heart to something completely different.

 

[BB88]

Ovechkin is a 100% sniper still. Just a more versatile one for sure. The others don’t have a good enough shot to concentrate so much in the sniper type of game.

Your reply really confirmed it to me that you are afraid of a player being a sniper and you think it’s somehow lower class. Some of the best snipers have been great and versatile players, like Lafleur, Selänne, Bure and Ovechkin. What are you so afraid of? Laine will never be the player that you seem to desperately want him to be. You clearly want him to be something else that will not be a natural thing for a player with his kind of a skillset. You are setting yourself for an enormous disappointment and it will most probably make you dislike Laine very much in the future, if you have so drastic expectations, that he in your opinion will change from being a sniper by heart to something completely different.

Hmm prime Ovy was a beast and a force, not complimentary sniper.
A complete nightmare to play against.

I want Laine to max out his potential and become the best player he can, which isn't a complimentary sniper, it's a Rocket winner who's a force on the ice. He was drafted to be potentially the guy in Winnipeg, and I damm hope unlike you that he becomes that.

When someone hopes development in Laines game you take it as he has to ignore the thing he's best at completely and try to become Bergeron/Lucic type, which is nonsense.
The more dangerous player he becomes the more he can score.

 

[Ippenator]

Hmm prime Ovy was a beast and a force, not complimentary sniper.
A complete nightmare to play against.

I want Laine to max out his potential and become the best player he can, which isn't a complimentary sniper, it's a Rocket winner who's a force on the ice. He was drafted to be potentially the guy in Winnipeg, and I damm hope unlike you that he becomes that.

When someone hopes development in Laines game you take it as he has to ignore the thing he's best at completely and try to become Bergeron/Lucic type, which is nonsense.
The more dangerous player he becomes the more he can score.

You seem to think that a sniper is always just a complimentary player, which is quite narrow kind of thinking honestly. A sniper is the purest kind of goalscorer for sure, but it doesn’t have to mean that he can’t be very versatile and able to do all kind of things well. It just means that he is still having the goal scoring as his best skill. Even how much Laine develops his other skills, I don’t believe it will ever change that his shooting and goalscoring skills will still be his greatest skills. He has them at that kind of a naturally great level, that people don’t get it ever to that level by just training well and hard. The same applies to the other skills that Laine will be still training. He can still develop them for sure, but he does not have another skill at that level naturally that any other of his skills could reach the level that his goalscoring skills are. And this is not a knock at his other skills - just a comment to emphasize how great his shooting and goalscoring skills are.

Of course Ovechkin has been able to be more than just a complimentary sniper, because he has been exactly a sniper by heart with some other versatile skills too. But honestly, you are misunderstanding what a sniper is, if you think that all snipers are just some very complementary lower grade players. You seem to have an attitude against the word sniper after all.

 

[Howard Chuck]

You asked were any of them 19, which Laine won't be next season, he'll be 20y with 2 years under his belt in the league, for which the answer is yes. By that age we start to see superstars take their place in the league.

Laine doesn't need to be top5 player next year but with where he was drafted, the potential he was seen at the draft and what he has shown in his 1st 2 seasons next year he should take a good development step and have games where he starts to take over games.

In his prime I hope to see a nightmare to play against Laine who's a top5 player in the league, he has the potential for it, one of the best shots in the league with a 6'4 frame.

It's somewhat weird here at times when you read the crazy 120 point/60+ goal predictions for him and later read the player they expect Laine to be, a 1 dimensional finisher whose game is not going to get that much better.

We mostly agree. I want him to reach his full potential and be a monster. My only disagreement is that most superstars start to take their place in the league at 20 years old. I Don’t know how many have done that. Maybe a few have?

My view is that we expect a 20 year old to not only challenge for the rocket but also be an elite line driver already. I think our expectations are to high too early. I want to see him continue to work hard and get better but I expect him to start to take over the ice at about 22. Anything earlier is gravy.

 

[BB88]

You seem to think that a sniper is always just a complimentary player, which is quite narrow kind of thinking honestly. A sniper is the purest kind of goalscorer for sure, but it doesn’t have to mean that he can’t be very versatile and able to do all kind of things well. It just means that he is still having the goal scoring as his best skill. Even how much Laine develops his other skills, I don’t believe it will ever change that his shooting and goalscoring skills will still be his greatest skills. He has them at that kind of a naturally great level, that people don’t get it ever to that level by just training well and hard. The same applies to the other skills that Laine will be still training. He can still develop them for sure, but he does not have another skill at that level naturally that any other of his skills could reach the level that his goalscoring skills are. And this is not a knock at his other skills - just a comment to emphasize how great his shooting and goalscoring skills are.

Of course Ovechkin has been able to be more than just a complimentary sniper, because he has been exactly a sniper by heart with some other versatile skills too. But honestly, you are misunderstanding what a sniper is, if you think that all snipers are just some very complementary lower grade players. You seem to have an attitude against the word sniper after all.

It's pointless to continue when you don't bother reading the posts and keep going on about the same.

You just don't seem to get that Laine can be a sniper, goal scorer 1st, keep his shot, have that as his biggest strenght, but he can become deadlier, he can become a driver, a guy you can build around.
No one is asking him to become Lucic or Bergeron, just more deadlier and tougher to play against, again please read while not asking him to stop shooting the puck.
He needs to be worth the money he's about to get.

You are overhyping him while underselling him at the same time basically.

We mostly agree. I want him to reach his full potential and be a monster. My only disagreement is that most superstars start to take their place in the league at 20 years old. I Don’t know how many have done that. Maybe a few have?

My view is that we expect a 20 year old to not only challenge for the rocket but also be an elite line driver already. I think our expectations are to high too early. I want to see him continue to work hard and get better but I expect him to start to take over the ice at about 22. Anything earlier is gravy.

And that's the club people see Laine at in his age group, guys like Crosby/McDavid/Ovy/Kane took their place amongst the best at that age or had already taken.
If Laine truly is that good/has that potential +3 season is a season we need to see him take clear development steps, doesn't even have to become the deadliest guy out there but get himself clearly closer.

So far Laine is a guy who's had his problems at ES, it's fine because he's been so young but with todays NHL/Laines draft potential/what he has shown in the league it's time to really take the next step.

 

[Bob E]

Excited to see what he turns into just through normal maturation and more playing experience.

The guy is a special talent. Glad we have him. Lock him up for 8 years Chevy.

 

[Ippenator]

It's pointless to continue when you don't bother reading the posts and keep going on about the same.

You just don't seem to get that Laine can be a sniper, goal scorer 1st, keep his shot, but he can become deadlier, he can become a driver, a guy you can build around.
No one is asking him to become Lucic or Bergeron, just more deadlier and tougher to play against, again please read while not asking him to stop shooting the puck.



And that's the club people see Laine at in his age group, guys like Crosby/McDavid/Ovy/Kane took their place amongst the best at that age or had already taken.
If Laine truly is that good/has that potential +3 season is a season we need to see him take clear development steps, doesn't even have to become the deadliest guy out there but get himself clearly closer.

So far Laine is a guy who's had his problems at ES, it's fine because he's been so young but with todays NHL/Laines draft potential/what he has shown in the league it's time to really take the next step.

I can only say that you are setting him goals on the basis of your own wishes, which means that you are most likely going to be very disappointed in him. You have anyway already been signaling clearly that you have been so disappointed in his development so far. I can guarantee if you truly expect him to be already the completely dominating player already the starting season, you are in for a HUGE disappointment dude, I can guarantee that. He was not that last season, and that kind of a change just does not happen in one or even two off seasons.

Useless also to compare different individuals and their development at this early point. Laine has been a physically quite unfilled player with a huge frame. No use to compare his development to players like McDavid or Crosby at the same age, as they all have their individual paths and Laine has anyway been a clearly rawer player physically than practically all of his peers, especially because of his knee injury 3 years ago.

But seriously dude, you are setting yourself perfectly up for a huge disappointment for the next season already.

 

[Shaibu]

It would be really, really difficult to keep Laine under 50 goals without injury next season.

I don't know about the cup, but a full season Laine will give 60+ goals to the Jets in regular season if used right (1st line minutes and max PP). There is no way, no how, that the current first line wingers could ever get anywhere close to the totals he can get. There's no sensible or rational argument there.

I like your optimism.

 

[BB88]

I can only say that you are setting him goals on the basis of your own wishes, which means that you are most likely going to be very disappointed in him. You have anyway already been signaling clearly that you have been so disappointed in his development so far. I can guarantee if you truly expect him to be already the completely dominating player already the starting season, you are in for a HUGE disappointment dude, I can guarantee that. He was not that last season, and that kind of a change just does not happen in one or even two off seasons.

Useless also to compare different individuals and their development also. Laine has been a physically quite unfilled player with a huge frame. No use to compare his development to players like McDavid or Crosby at the same age, as they all have their individual paths and Laine has anyway been a clearly rawer player physically than practically all of his peers, especially because of his knee injury 3 years ago.

But seriously dude, you are setting yourself perfectly up for a huge disappointment for the next season already.

Would be nice if I'd have said that, again ignoring my posts.

It's crazy how you hype him yet are so modest when it comes to his development, and the expectations for his development.
Rantanen/Barkov/Nylander/Pasta are European prospects whose games have seen huge developments in their +3 seasons, they are all different types of players but again to you Laine is something special and one shouldn't have anywhere close to similar expecations for him.

Laine can have generationa shot(in his prime) while other assets being elite to great to good, doesn't just have to be generational shot with other assets as good, weak, bad.

 

[jepjepjoo]

And that's still not going to wipe away the importance of the other ~80 games. A sample size this huge is going to include different combinations in favour of both sides.

View attachment 131025

'But Ehlers doesn't contribute more!'

Yes, yes he does. Over the last two years, he has even shot more than Laine.

'But that's just shots, Laine scores more!'

2016-18, 5v5

Ehlers: 2.22 ES points/60
Laine: 2.16 ES points/60

So... about that.

Last 2 seasons combined ES time needed for a point/goal:

ES TOI needed for a goal:

Laine 43:22
Ehlers 56:25
Scheifele 60:43
Wheeler 71:37

ES TOI needed for a point:

Scheifele 21:46
Ehlers 23:56
Laine 24:51
Wheeler 26:03

Does Ehlers contribute more than Wheeler also?

 

[Ippenator]

Would be nice if I'd have said that, again ignoring my posts.

It's crazy how you hype him yet are so modest when it comes to his development, and the expectations for his development.
Rantanen/Barkov/Nylander/Pasta are European prospects whose games have seen huge developments in their +3 seasons, they are all different types of players but again to you Laine is something special and one shouldn't have anywhere close to similar expecations for him.

Laine can have generationa shot(in his prime) while other assets being elite to great to good, doesn't just have to be generational shot with other assets as good, weak, bad.

It’s as simple as I happen to know his weaknesses very well, as I have seen his every single game (just like Sebastian Aho’s as well) for the last three years now. And I know very well that his weaknesses are such that are exactly a longer and harder process to fix than for some smaller and naturally more explosive players. But you as a fan of a player (Barkov) that had even very similar kind of problems at even a worse manner, should really know better that it really took him longer than just two seasons to really break through in the NHL in a steady manner.

Barkov broke really through truly only last season. His skating has been at his best only since that so far although the development has been more gradual than sudden really. His production matched Laine’s first two season’s class the first time during his 3rd season, but before that he was pitifully worse than Laine during his first two seasons. And after his 3rd season Barkov’s production in fact regressed a tad during his 4th season. He has been truly at his best level only during the 2017-2018 season so far.

So Laine has been clearly ahead of Barkov in his development so far, but as many people have here smartly said - development is not linear, so you can’t just automatically expect Laine to have such a great development jump as Barkov had in his 3rd season necessarily, because Laine’s class was already so much higher than Barkov’s during their first two seasons. And anyway, Barkov had his great results in his 3rd season very much through the very well working Jagr-Barkov-Huberdeau- line, which unfortunately was broken pretty much after that season and Jagr started anyway falling off his game after that season.

I’m just really trying to be a complete realist about Laine. I see really enormous potential in him the same way as before, and I believe that in his prime he might very well be capable of over 60 goal seasons (maybe even over 70 goal season is possible if everything goes optimally for him) and clearly over 100 point seasons. But for all that to happen there is no kind of shortcuts. He needs to fix his physical issues, and that takes time for such a raw and big sized player. And only after that he has even theoretical chances to do the things that I just said I see him having potential for doing. He needs to be better in battles and creating space for himself in tight spaces and he needs to be able to play the game in the first line and the power play for clearly over 20 minutes per game for all that to be possible. And of course he needs to be absolutely lucky with injuries to be able to develop his physicality in the needed way.

I see it all still possible, but it for sure will take still time. I see him still at the moment about 3-4 years away from his prime. But I have time to wait and enjoy watching him play through the process all the way...

 

[Maukkis]

Last 2 seasons combined ES time needed for a point/goal:

ES TOI needed for a goal:

Laine 43:22
Ehlers 56:25
Scheifele 60:43
Wheeler 71:37

ES TOI needed for a point:

Scheifele 21:46
Ehlers 23:56
Laine 24:51
Wheeler 26:03

Does Ehlers contribute more than Wheeler also?

He doesn't. Wheeler's impact on the ice isn't limited to point production and scoring goals.

 

[BB88]

It’s as simple as I happen to know his weaknesses very well, as I have seen his every single game (just like Sebastian Aho’s as well) for the last three years now. And I know very well that his weaknesses are such that are exactly a longer and harder process to fix than for some smaller and naturally more explosive players. But you as a fan of a player (Barkov) that had even very similar kind of problems at even a worse manner, should really know better that it really took him longer than just two seasons to really break through in the NHL in a steady manner.

Barkov broke really through truly only last season. His skating has been at his best only since that so far although the development has been more gradual than sudden really. His production matched Laine’s first two season’s class the first time during his 3rd season, but before that he was pitifully worse than Laine during his first two seasons. And after his 3rd season Barkov’s production in fact regressed a tad during his 4th season. He has been truly at his best level only during the 2017-2018 season so far.

So Laine has been clearly ahead of Barkov in his development so far, but as many people have here smartly said - development is not linear, so you can’t just automatically expect Laine to have such a great development jump as Barkov had in his 3rd season necessarily, because Laine’s class was already so much higher than Barkov’s during their first two seasons. And anyway, Barkov had his great results in his 3rd season very much through the very well working Jagr-Barkov-Huberdeau- line, which unfortunately was broken pretty much after that season and Jagr started anyway falling off his game after that season.

I’m just really trying to be a complete realist about Laine. I see really enormous potential in him the same way as before, and I believe that in his prime he might very well be capable of over 60 goal seasons (maybe even over 70 goal season is possible if everything goes optimally for him) and clearly over 100 point seasons. But for all that to happen there is no kind of shortcuts. He needs to fix his physical issues, and that takes time for such a raw and big sized player. And only after that he has even theoretical chances to do the things that I just said I see him having potential for doing. He needs to be better in battles and creating space for himself in tight spaces and he needs to be able to play the game in the first line and the power play for clearly over 20 minutes per game for all that to be possible. And of course he needs to be absolutely lucky with injuries to be able to develop his physicality in the needed way.

I see it all still possible, but it for sure will take still time. I see him still at the moment about 3-4 years away from his prime. But I have time to wait and enjoy watching him play through the process all the way...

We have posters who are saying 60+ goals/110+ points for Laine but when it comes to development it's let's all calm down, setting up yourself for a disappointment if you think he's going to show real progress and what else.
Yippii.

Laine isn't a player with unique weakness, in todays NHL it shouldn't take 5-10 years to show real development, if it does you've done something wrong with your time. If he wants to he has everything he needs to develop the max, he has everything available for him if he wants to.

He again doesn't have to be perfect next season but dammit there has to be development or what the hell has he been doing with his time since the draft.

 

[jepjepjoo]

He doesn't. Wheeler's impact on the ice isn't limited to point production and scoring goals.

Care to elaborate? Wheeler isn't exactly a defensive wizard...

 

[Ippenator]

We have posters who are saying 60+ goals/110+ points for Laine but when it comes to development it's let's all calm down, setting up yourself for a disappointment if you think he's going to show real progress and what else.
Yippii.

Laine isn't a player with unique weakness, in todays NHL it shouldn't take 5-10 years to show real development, if it does you've done something wrong with your time. If he wants to he has everything he needs to develop the max, he has everything available for him if he wants to.

He again doesn't have to be perfect next season but dammit there has to be development or what the hell has he been doing with his time since the draft.

It took your big favorite Barkov 5 years to be at his absolute top class with his development, but with Laine you are expecting even better results from his 3rd season? It was btw approximately the same kind of a 5 year time span before Scheifele became a really dominating player. Oh my God how inconsistent your logic and expectations really are! And btw, yes Laine’s starting situation when he came to the NHL was miles worse than probably over 90% of the NHL players, as he has had a darn serious knee injury just three years ago, which took almost a year to recover to even to the level of condition that his legs had before the injury. Is it seriously that hard to understand that just that fact by itself makes his situation very different than for most of his peers? And the other thing is that there are even less than 10% of his peers that are anyway 6’5 tall or over, which in general is a well known fact to make the player’s physical development go a bit longer and tougher road.

I know that development is not linear and there is no shortcuts if you want to have the really good development in the long run. He needs to still become better in even many things, but it will be a gradual process, and I’m for sure expecting there to be some development also every year, but as it will most probably be gradual, it seriously might not be that big a difference to his previous season. But when we look at him in 3 or 4 seasons from now, I’m for sure expecting to see a clearly better player then. And I’m confident that he will get there if he is quite lucky with injuries.

 

[Ippenator]

Care to elaborate? Wheeler isn't exactly a defensive wizard...

He is absolutely far from that really. He is in fact one of the worst defensive forwards of the Jets. But I love his hustling and great offensive play, and I pretty much can forgive his reckless defensive play because of those qualities. And in many ways he is an absolutely great example as a captain. But his defensive play is for sure not one of those things, as well as his occasional IDOTIC penalties aren’t either...

 

[Psych0dad]

He doesn't. Wheeler's impact on the ice isn't limited to point production and scoring goals.

It has to be a magical attribute because I don't find it in defensive stats.

 

[BB88]

It took your big favorite Barkov 5 years to be at his absolute top class with his development, but with Laine you are expecting even better results from his 3rd season? It was btw approximately the same kind of a 5 year time span before Scheifele became a really dominating player. Oh my God how inconsistent your logic and expectations really are! And btw, yes Laine’s starting situation when he came to the NHL was miles worse than probably over 90% of the NHL players, as he has had a darn serious knee injury just three years ago, which took almost a year to recover to even to the level of condition that his legs had before the injury. Is it seriously that hard to understand that just that fact by itself makes his situation very different than for most of his peers? And the other thing is that there are even less than 10% of his peers that are anyway 6’5 tall or over, which in general is a well known fact to make the player’s physical development go a bit longer and tougher road.

I know that development is not linear and there is no shortcuts if you want to have the really good development in the long run. He needs to still become better in even many things, but it will be a gradual process, and I’m for sure expecting there to be some development also every year, but as it will most probably be gradual, it seriously might not be that big a difference to his previous season. But when we look at him in 3 or 4 seasons from now, I’m for sure expecting to see a clearly better player then. And I’m confident that he will get there if he is quite lucky with injuries.

It didn't take 5th season for Barkov to develop, he had shown significant development in his game by year 3, 59 points in 66 games and being the 2way #1C for a team that won the Atlantic(regular season).
Barkov did that while missing summers for years due to injuries.

Pasta exploded in his 3rd season, Rantanen exploded in his 3rd season, Nylander stepped up in his 3rd season, but with Laine we shouldn't expect any development.
Laine was better prospect than anyone of them, Laine has higher ceiling than any of them, well I damm apologize for expecting Laine to show some development in his game after 3 years, as others have been able to show before him and will show after him.

I'm so sick and tired of you not reading the posts, not anywhere have I said he needs to be damm perfect next year but he needs to show development in his game.
This is the last post I reply to you regarding this because you keep ignoring what I damm write.

Let's just agree that Laine is a unique player with a weakness no one else has and no one else has had and give him 10 years to show some development in his game.

If you have to come up with this amount of excuses then maybe he isn't that special.

 

[Kaako Kappo]

I'm so sick and tired of you not reading the posts, not anywhere have I said he needs to be damm perfect next year but he needs to show development in his game.
This is the last post I reply to you regarding this because you keep ignoring what I damm write.

Are you expecting him not to show development or are you saying that there wasn't development last season? Why do you keep repeating this? The kid went forward last season, no reason to believe he wouldn't go forward this season.