Player Discussion: Patrik Laine - MOD WARNING IN OP

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Legend Leinonen

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Apr 8, 2016
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Have you seen how sprint skaters train? And have you seen what kind of legs sprint skaters have? If any guys in any sport have crazy muscular legs that are thick like tree trunks, they are exactly speed skaters. I can tell you that just like sprinter runners they practically live at the gym.

Of course the point is not to gain mass, but when you want to get the maximum explosive power, there’s absolutely no way in hell to not get more mass with the gained explosive muscle cells.

For example most succesfull Finnish skater, Mika Poutala, said he never trained with weights.

You can compare Thors bench press with Dolph Lundgren who outweight Thor 20-30 kg in his prime, yet Dolphs bench record was only measly 120kg.
 

Ippenator

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A great example of athlete with high force to mass ratio is Norwegian olympic gold medalist in Javelin throw - Andreas Thorkildsen. Andreas was 190 cm tall and weight only little over 80 kg, with long and skinny arms. Here he is bench pressing 200kg


Lets be still a bit more accurate. His prime measurements were 188 cm and 90 kg. But for sure very impressive strength anyway. But what is ideal for a javelin thrower is not necessarily ideal for a hockey player. And especially doesn’t have much to do with what makes a hockey player develop his skating.
 
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Ippenator

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For example most succesfull Finnish skater, Mika Poutala, said he never trained with weights.

You can compare Thors bench press with Dolph Lundgren who outweight Thor 20-30 kg in his prime, yet Dolphs bench record was only measly 120kg.
Dolph Lundgren was more like a body builder than an efficient athlete, so honestly I have to say that your comparison there is really bad. And anyway Lundgren was measured as 194 cm and 93 kg in his prime. So you really exaggerated the weight difference between him and Thorkildsen. Instead of 30 kg the real difference was measly 3 kg. And Lundgren was after all 6 cm taller than Thorkildsen, so he was in fact thinner and less muscular anyway than Thorkildsen.

And even if Poutala didn’t train with weights (couldn't find confirmation to that, but I choose to trust you in that) he for sure had to train especially strength a lot by some other means then, as there is not quick skating without having A LOT of explosive strength and efficient explosive muscle mass. And even if he didn’t train with weights, it just makes him a very rare exception. Practically all world class sprinter skaters train very hard at the gym and with weights. Another succesful Finnish sprinter skater Pekka Koskela is one of those many whom have built their explosive strength with enormous amounts of training at the gym with weights.
 
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LowLefty

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Well, I was watching Scheifele play especially in the two WJC tournaments that he was in at those times, and honestly I have to say that we see it very differently, if you think that he was a good skater already then. He was not at all special with his skating even against his peers. What was very striking about him was that he was in general a quite skinny kid with weak legs specificly.

Sure, he had problems with falling easy, which btw Laine hasnt had too much, but Scheifele was having problems with his skating otherwise too, because of those weak legs. Not too impressive first steps either, and I dare to say that his top speed was in fact weaker than Laine’s when they both were 19 year old’s.

I saw Scheifele play also in several Jets games during those years and after that, as the Jets were one of my favorite NHL teams for sure even before Laine was playing there. For three years I practically was quite sceptical if Scheifele would ever become a true star player. I could see then already very impressive skills and especially it was easy to see that he had very high hockey IQ. But it was just his weak physics that kept me still doubting him. Cool that he has been so driven and training with good methods that strengthened his legs and gave him the much needed power and explosiveness to his legs. And also he has done enormously well with training his stamina.

He has done exactly the training that Laine needs and has been already even doing. But Laine needs still two or three years of the hard physical training to be in relatively similar physical shape that Scheifele is at. Most probably even more time is needed and no bigger injuries should occur during that time. So it is partially also about luck from that part. But at least I can assure that Laine has the similar kind of optimal training attitude that Scheifele has. He wants to do everything possible that is needed for him to make himself a better player. He is extremely highly motivated and willing to work very hard in the exercises that are needed for his development.

I know that some North American fans are not sure how hard Laine is training or how good attitude he has towards training. I can assure you that no need to worry, as he is in the very rare group of extremely highly motivated very talented players that there is. He has exactly the kind of attitude as Crosby, Scheifele and other real top attitude guys.

The same goes with the other Finnish rising star Sebastian Aho, whom is also extremely driven and is on his way to become one of the best players in the whole league. I know that quite a lot of people are even still sleeping on the magnificent skills and potential that Aho has, but in a year or two already he will open even the rest of the closed eyes so far. And I’m sure that in a few years latest the same will happen with Laine and the surprisingly big crowd still doubting him.

I agree with you - Scheif was a lightweight - I stated that - but his skating technique was fine. Coming up through Jr and as a pro, he has always been a decent skater - his problem was strength. He was getting knocked down or off the puck very easily - please don't blame his skating on this shortfall.

At the end of the day, my point is - you don't need to be a thick kid to skate.

Laine's may need to work on his strength to hopefully improve his skating - I'm with you on this point and I honestly hope that is what he needs. But, personally, I feel he also needs to learn how to skate in addition to adding some leg muscle.

At this point in his career, as a player who has been compared to some of the best and who is preparing to make a ton of money, he is not a very good skater - that's all I'm saying.

I'm sure the Jets recognize this and will be pushing him to improve is skating technique, edge work, etc.
It's all good.
 

Ippenator

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I agree with you - Scheif was a lightweight - I stated that - but his skating technique was fine. Coming up through Jr and as a pro, he has always been a decent skater - his problem was strength. He was getting knocked down or off the puck very easily - please don't blame his skating on this shortfall.

At the end of the day, my point is - you don't need to be a thick kid to skate.

Laine's may need to work on his strength to hopefully improve his skating - I'm with you on this point and I honestly hope that is what he needs. But, personally, I feel he also needs to learn how to skate in addition to adding some leg muscle.

At this point in his career, as a player who has been compared to some of the best and who is preparing to make a ton of money, he is not a very good skater - that's all I'm saying.

I'm sure the Jets recognize this and will be pushing him to improve is skating technique, edge work, etc.
It's all good.
Now I’ll admit that we are maybe not having very different opinions on this after all. Well, to me Scheifele looked like a pretty average skater when he was 19, so there we might still disagree, if you think he was a really good skater already then. And I’m not just talking about him falling around easily, but also about his pretty average first steps and top speed at those times. But through the years he has become a completely different player with his strength, skating and stamina. Now I can easily say that he is an excellent skater. One of the best skating bigger guys in the whole league in fact.

With Laine’s skating I do definitely agree that to be really as good as he is expected to be, he needs to clearly get his first steps better. And sure he can most probably benefit still clearly from some technical skating exercising too. But I do trust the evaluation that Laine and his trainer Rautala made last season, that until Laine has gained (hopefully as soon as possible) enough of explosive strength to have a good enough of basis for the more technical skating training, he will maximize the training time to gaining the explosive strength and stamina as quickly as possible. The problem has been though also that he has very much needed more strength to his core also, to be better at board battles, but that is also essential for giving a good enough foundation for the better skating.

Now as he was training mostly both his leg muscles and core, it meant that last summer he gained in fact more weight than what the improved leg muscles were yet prepared to accelerate. This especially is natural because his body needs anyway some time to get used to the body mass and the bigger muscles. Especially the nerval system needs to accomodate to the changes of the body. Skating skill training is not really optimal at the time when very hard muscle training is happening and so much changes are happening to the body.

I’m still sure he will start doing also technical training with his skating, but it will start happening only when they think it is optimal with the muscle and stamina training. I’m also sure that their plan has been gone through with the Jets management and they have given their blessing for what they are doing with Laine’s training. He is that great an asset for the Jets that I find it practically impossible that this wouldnt be the case really.

Even though I think he can still at some point benefit by some amount from some technical skating training, i honestly dont still believe that he will get a huge difference from it. I dont see his skating technique as bad at all, he has show’n that he can turn well and keep his speed well then, and he has done some really surprisingly sharp turns for his size pretty effortlessly.

But stop and go play is definitely deadly for him at the moment. He can really look slow and clumsy when he needs to play in that way almost constantly in the NHL. It is because his muscles are still so weak that they can’t give him too quick acceleration and when he has such big body mass, he gets also exhausted which just makes the contrast look even bigger with his acceleration compared to smaller and quicker players.

I do truly believe that when Laine gets his explosive leg strength and stamina to the better level, he should become the player he has been expected to become, and that can be seriously something amazing, if he can get his skating to the level that Barkov for example has. It shouldn’t definitely be at least impossible, as Barkov was definitely a worse skater than Laine as a 19 year old, but nowadays he is already a pretty good skater. But it took him 3-4 years of really hard training to get there. No use to think that it should be much quicker for Laine to get there either.
 
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RageQuit77

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Jan 5, 2016
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Patrik calming down kids in aeroplane after unscheduled landing because of a drunk passenger:


Good PR. Patrik has some sense of rhythm. That's how you use your celebrity status correctly when a situation calls for it.

Malaga. He started to party we lost him boys :(

Haha! At least he went there for golfing.

Oh come on people. Players are allowed to take some time off to relax during their offseasons.

Yeah!

Oh s*** he is calming down little kids now. Jesus **** Laine skate better.

As long as he won't be carried into a police custody like that drunken dude when he comes back, I think we have nothing to worry about. :laugh:
 

grieves

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Apr 27, 2016
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As long as he won't be carried into a police custody like that drunken dude when he comes back, I think we have nothing to worry about. :laugh:

What a complete and utter moron. Hope he learns not to be a complete child with that baby-like brain of his.

And then you have Laine who acts like the adult at 20yo. Reflects well on Laines parents as well. Good job all around.
 

DoingItCoolKiwi

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May 23, 2017
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IS making news out of nothing again, I see. What is news worthy in the fact that Laine happened to be on the same flight as a drunken idiot, and took some pics with fans as he probably does everywhere he goes
 

grieves

silent prayer
Apr 27, 2016
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If people are concerned Patty has been vacationing. Please don't check up on Ehlers, all he posts are beach pics.

I think people are just joking :). It's good to take some time off in any profession.

That said, GET BACK TO TRAINING PATRIK WTF THOSE SKATES AREN'T GONNA SKATE THEMSELVES IF YOU GOTTA VACATION THEN YOU SWIM THERE
 
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BB88

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Jan 19, 2015
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How to Train Like an Olympic Speed Skater (Those Legs!)

I honestly hope that people eagerly judging Laine’s skating and his training methods at the moment, would read with thought this article. I think it should open at least some eyes around here.

Who's said he can't lift weights?

I want versatility in his training, I fail to see how not skating at all during summer is the best way to go, how are NA guys able to develop some of the best skaters/players in the World?
They skate during summers.
 
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