Patrik Laine III: We’ve got questions, he’s got answers

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Halberdier

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Until he shows more in a Columbus sweater that title belongs to Bjorkstrand or Werenski. He has potential to be but hes gotta prove it now

Agreed. Last season there was no contest, Björk was clearly better. Also Werenski. But I did refer to his "usual self", which is better and which also warrants his salary.

I am a bit worried about his injuries, also that one that happened on his very first game on last season (that game he was a monster, btw. He single-handedly fought those two points for the Jets). He tried to downplay that injury, but it was clearly more severe than what he made us to believe.

Other than injury related issues, I am confident he will be back as the guy he used to be, and even better.
 

kanadalainen

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It would be nice to see Patty bag 40+ goals next year. The kid has it in him if he wants to - and its been shown that he does well with a dedicated set up guy who can saucer a pass. There is no reason he won't kill it on the power play (thinking 15-20 goals, at least). Of course, he can clap it with huge velocity, but if he's on his game, with great accuracy too.

Also I think his passing can be/is amazing - last year it seems that nothing worked for him to see him reach his usual numbers of assists. Nik Ehlers and Kyle Connor, and even Wheeler benefitted from some of those passes while he played in the Peg. (Jets fan here).
 
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majormajor

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Agreed. Last season there was no contest, Björk was clearly better. Also Werenski. But I did refer to his "usual self", which is better and which also warrants his salary.

His best performances in Winnipeg were still incomplete. His last season he was an awkward third wheel on the Connor-Scheifele line. He was worse than Wheeler on that unit. He's never had strong play-driving results and the defensive results are often terrible.

To my mind Werenski and Bjorkstrand are better than the best Laine we've seen to date. He could become better than both but "usual self" is not good enough.
 

Halberdier

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His best performances in Winnipeg were still incomplete. His last season he was an awkward third wheel on the Connor-Scheifele line. He was worse than Wheeler on that unit. He's never had strong play-driving results and the defensive results are often terrible.

To my mind Werenski and Bjorkstrand are better than the best Laine we've seen to date. He could become better than both but "usual self" is not good enough.

We agree to disagree then. I like results, and on 5-on-5, Laine simply had much better goal differential than both Connor and Wheeler (16-20). Actually, barring one bad season (18-19), he did lead the Jets on that 5-v-5 goal differential.

Metrics can tell you what kind of results to expect for average skaters. But if in the long run results differs from metrics, it's not because results are wrong. It's because metrics are incomplete and are based on league average skills, including but not limited to league average shooting, which quite frankly, is not true with Laine for example.
 

majormajor

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We agree to disagree then. I like results, and on 5-on-5, Laine simply had much better goal differential than both Connor and Wheeler (16-20). Actually, barring one bad season (18-19), he did lead the Jets on that 5-v-5 goal differential.

Metrics can tell you what kind of results to expect for average skaters. But if in the long run results differs from metrics, it's not because results are wrong. It's because metrics are incomplete and are based on league average skills, including but not limited to league average shooting, which quite frankly, is not true with Laine for example.

I would expect Laine to substantially outscore his expected goals metrics. I get that part. But whether he shoots 18% or 12% is a big difference. His early positive goal differential comes from that 18% shooting. He hasn't topped 12% since year two and his 5v5 goal differential has been negative ever since.

I suspect this is the difference in our perspectives on what his "usual self" is. What you're describing to me is something Laine did years ago.
 

kanadalainen

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So did we ever get word on what his injury was? Are we guessing its the back issue?

I will simply guess its his back. He is always messing it up. IMHO he may needs to do low weight chronic core stuff (kettlebell lift, side planks, deadbug, static pulls with a band, etc) such as is prescribed physio to manage it. (Disclaimer; Not a clinician, or a physiotherapist :D).
 
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stevo61

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I will simply guess its his back. He is always messing it up. IMHO he may needs to do low weight chronic core stuff (kettlebell lift, side planks, deadbug, static pulls with a band, etc) such as is prescribed physio to manage it. (Disclaimer; Not a clinician, or a physiotherapist :D).
Its a tricky situation, core work should be involved in anyones life. Id add bird dogs to that list.
That said back injuries really do suck. I hurt mine deadlifting and it took 10 months to fully recover. When your job depends on your physical health its rough.
If that is his injury I hope he figures it out
 
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Finner

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Have to realistic we have 0 center who can feed Laine. 20goals is more than great next season, 30 is unbealivible. With those linemates who we have offer theres not a single player in the world who can score 40+ goals.
 

majormajor

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Have to realistic we have 0 center who can feed Laine. 20goals is more than great next season, 30 is unbealivible. With those linemates who we have offer theres not a single player in the world who can score 40+ goals.

So what would you expect happens to Laine's trade value this year?

For me the Voracek acquisition is actually a big help. What I'm looking for from centers is not so much "feed Laine" but just transition the puck out of our end. That would be a great improvement.
 

Halberdier

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So what would you expect happens to Laine's trade value this year?

For me the Voracek acquisition is actually a big help. What I'm looking for from centers is not so much "feed Laine" but just transition the puck out of our end. That would be a great improvement.

(Emphasis mine) definitely, that's the key. Or, even more so how they hopefully can do zone entries and finally have some structure & idea when doing that. That will not only help Laine tremendously, but also everybody on board.
 
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VT

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So what would you expect happens to Laine's trade value this year?

For me the Voracek acquisition is actually a big help. What I'm looking for from centers is not so much "feed Laine" but just transition the puck out of our end. That would be a great improvement.
Watch the game against Tampa (1th april, I know it because of its date ;)), Chicago, Dallas (but I don`t remember which) and still some. Especially the first. And then we can discuss about his transition the puck again.
 

NotCommitted

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Have to realistic we have 0 center who can feed Laine. 20goals is more than great next season, 30 is unbealivible. With those linemates who we have offer theres not a single player in the world who can score 40+ goals.

That's setting the bar mighty low. Might as well trade Laine now and hope there's still some GM in the league who thinks there's a hockey player (and goalscorer) there.
 

Cyclones Rock

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I would expect Laine to substantially outscore his expected goals metrics. I get that part. But whether he shoots 18% or 12% is a big difference. His early positive goal differential comes from that 18% shooting. He hasn't topped 12% since year two and his 5v5 goal differential has been negative ever since.

I suspect this is the difference in our perspectives on what his "usual self" is. What you're describing to me is something Laine did years ago.

Patrik Laine III: Will He Stay or Will He Go? (Accepts QO, 1 yr 7.5M)

I'm seeing 14.6% for 20-21, but if you throw out the one game he played in WPG (2 goals/3 shots) he was 12%.

This is a useful stat. His trend line on shooting is not good. Just another reason to trade him.
 
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Easternbull

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Nov 18, 2016
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Don't underestimate the fact that Columbus has 3 players who can potetntially cuarterback a nr 1 PP. With all due resepct Pionk and Morrrisey they are not elite, Pionk is reeely good but not Elite IMHO.

IF Werenski leaves for Detroit in the future both Boqvist and Bean have huge upsides.

Do not underestimate the Sean Kurally signing, he can play rhe same role Danault played in Montreal and let Roslovic, Texier and Domi take ozone drwas and softer match ups.

Think Patty will have great chemistry with Jakub and re take the leading role and confidence he had before hitting the pipes against Subban and getting benched after trying to singlehandedly get the puck into the ozone on numerous powerplays.
 
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Crede777

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I'm expecting 30-20-50 and the difficult discussion on "he's a big time goal scorer on a crappy team" versus "he's good but not a star player."

I do think he will only stay if he's viewed as a star and offered a star's contract ( ~ $8.5 million AAV and long term). If he's offered in the $5-6 million range then I think he (and the team) may opt to explore options elsewhere.

Essentially, I think he'll do better this coming season and look better. But I'm not sure that he'll look like a star forward which will make the decision on what to do with him difficult again next offseason. How much that comes down to the player versus team is a decision Jarmo and company will need to make.

Also, I'm not convinced he and Voracek will be glued together at the hip. That's Brad Larsen's call, but I could see a lack of chemistry or - in the event that they have great chemistry - moving one to try to jumpstart another line.
 
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LoneFunyan

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1. Acquire Jake Voracek.
2. Use Jake Voracek to boost Patrik Laine's scoring back to acceptable levels.
3. Trade Laine at this year's deadline. Look at shiny scoring machine with one year left of control. You give us first round pick please.
4. Trade Voracek at next year's deadline. Look at grizzld veteran with playoff experience and epic beard. You give us first round pick please.

Pull it off and that's 8 first rounders in 3 years. Make it happen Jarmo.
 
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Murky

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Boqvist is excellent when passing for a shot on goal. He is also very young. Vorachek was not the only player aqcuired with Laine in mind. If he is succesful or not is his own doing. An elite scorer will put the puck in the net. He was awful at the end of last year but that is not necessarily the end of story. But whatever the case, Laine will have to score a lot of goals or he is done as a "future" star.
 

Byrral

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Aug 2, 2006
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I'm going to wait on analyzing Patrik until the season gets going under a new coach. Last season a bunch of fans bombarded these boards with messages of greatness that I didn't really get to see much of. Much of that talk has been put to rest but where does he fall between the superstar some made him out to be to the hopeless locker room cancer that others are claiming now. I don't have anything personally invested in Laine so I don't care if he stays or goes.
 

Kratti

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1. Acquire Jake Voracek.
2. Use Jake Voracek to boost Patrik Laine's scoring back to acceptable levels.
3. Trade Laine at this year's deadline. Look at shiny scoring machine with one year left of control. You give us first round pick please.
4. Trade Voracek at next year's deadline. Look at grizzld veteran with playoff experience and epic beard. You give us first round pick please.

Pull it off and that's 8 first rounders in 3 years. Make it happen Jarmo.
I realize the board is called "hockey's future" but sometimes it still amazes me how often people here are eager to trade known quantities for unspecified futures who in the very best of scenarios could conceivably be at a similar level and almost certainly will be significantly worse.
 
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