Patrick Wiercioch is impressive.
- Thread starter McMatthews
- Start date
Scrub*
Team Canada
- Dec 28, 2008
- 9,289
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KarlssonMarx
Be Red
HavlatMach9
streamable 3rah1
I wonder if his current production is his peak. In his prime, this production + mature defense would be solid.
BonkTastic
ಠ_ಠ
Ice time in tonight's game:
Phillips - 27:54
Gonchar- 25:44
Gryba - 21:22
Benoit - 19:49
Weircioch - 17:07
Methot - 8:23 (injured)
... he's still playing 3rd pair. Is there a point you're trying to make here?
He's been better the past 5-6 games than he had been up to that point. Definitely impressing me... but his offensive production was never an issue. It was good before, and it's improved over the past week and a half (or so).
His defensive awareness is still bad. And I'm still hopeful it will get better, as I was when we discussed Weircioch earlier.
So what exactly are we discussing, still?
Phillips and Gryba only played so much because we spent 10 minutes on the PK. I can't explain Benoit though.
Vaclav Varada
CoJo
Benoit has quietly been very good lately. Wiercioch and his flash gets the attention, but Benoit's really turned a corner too it seems.
Sens91
Registered User
- Mar 16, 2011
- 586
- 0
You can teach anyone to play well defensively, offensive skills on the other hand, you either have them, or don't.
BonkTastic
ಠ_ಠ
Well, I wouldn't say you can teach ANYONE to play well defensively, otherwise Andy Delmore could have been an All Star... but overall yeah, I agree with the sentiment of your argument.
Sens91
Registered User
- Mar 16, 2011
- 586
- 0
Lol yes, not necessarily anyone haha, but you know what I mean. His defense can only get better.
Vaclav Varada
CoJo
I still remember watching the game he got a hattrick in the playoffs for Philly and thinking he was gonna be a super-star.
Wiercioch is the last piece from the Havlat trade that remains today, it's good to see him finally coming into something to ease the pain from that trade.
YNWA14
Onbreekbaar
- Dec 29, 2010
- 34,543
- 2,560
Wiercioch has been amazing offensively. He leaves a lot to be desired in his own end. I find he's good at keeping the puck in the offensive zone, but he's terrible at getting it out of the defensive zone. I don't think I've ever seen him come away with the puck in a battle on the boards.
HavlatMach9
streamable 3rah1
Vaclav Varada
CoJo
Both guys love to shoot though.
Prolly see WierShock as the trigger man on the point of PP2.
Gonna be a pain in the ass trying to design your PK around stopping 2 pp units with that much fire power on the point
BonkTastic
ಠ_ಠ
Yeah.
I don't even know what Mak's issue was: I said Weircioch is an offensive specialist on a bottom pair until he can improve his defence. And that's exactly what he is right now.
I said: fix his defence, and he's a #4 guy - an offensive 2nd pairing defenceman who will probably need a 2-way guy to partner with.
I don't think my assessment is even all that different from his. I think he believes Wier will be an elite 2nd pairing guy, and I think if he can fix the defence, he'll be an average one (with an offensive edge, and some defensive issues - he'll never be a PK guy, and that's ok). There's not even that much room between those two projections for an argument, IMO, but here we are: debating about it.
lol ok there
I've been wrong twice in my HFBoarding career:
1-Didn't like the Turris trade at the time. But only 2-3 posters actually did because of the collective Rundblad boner. I think I get a pass on this one, almost everyone was wrong.
2-I said Methot was 3rd pair instead of 2nd pair. Whoopteedoo. If you dug up those threads you'll find others agreeing and many disliking the Foligno trade as well. (I still don't see the big deal about Methot. #4-5 is a better description. He's tailed off lately after a good start, showing his true colours)
We are discussing how horribly wrong you are about Wiercioch.
You said he'd end up as a 3rd pair D who can sub into the top 4 if there are injuries.
Well, that's wrong. The offensive numbers he's putting up with limited ice time on a bad offensive team are ridiculous. He's so good offensively, and that's half the game.
Now on to his supposedly bad defense. Sorry dude I don't see it. He's not perfect. No other defenseman is perfect. Not even 2012-13 Gonchar. If he needs to be Gonchar good to be good defensively in your books, then you might be right saying he's bad defensively. But then so would 95% of NHL defenseman. Wiercioch had a really bad shift against Winnipeg (I think he was hurt/stung during it), but they are anomalies for the most part. Whatever you see out there that makes him bad defensively (I don't see it personally) in your eyes doesn't matter. He doesn't get scored on.
Yes his minutes are more sheltered (increasingly less so though, especially when playing with Gonchar), but he at least deserves more ice time to prove himself.
I don't know why Stache doesn't play him. Maybe he thinks/knows his stamina/conditioning is bad?
I don't know how to find ice time per period... but I'd be willing to bet only Gonchar played more than Wiercioch in the 3rd. Wiercioch plays little in first 40 min, Sens lose 3-1. Wiercioch plays a lot in 3rd, Sens outscore opposition 4-0. LOL
Gryba, once again, was -1 tonight. And he had a horrible breakdown during the Aucoin kicked in goal. He doesn't produce offensively. No idea why this guy gets more ice time.
Anyway... all this to say you're wrong. Even if Wier is as bad as you say, there is NOTHING, Nothing to suggest he won't improve. I can't believe you're saying a guy with his size and skill cannot improve enough defensively to be a 2nd pair guy.
Elite #3 potential. Maybe a #2 at this point, certainly not out o the question.
That comes with experience and coaching. He'll learn. He's a smart player, it should translate to the defensive side too.
This. I mean I wouldn't call him a shutdown D-man. But when he's playing well, Wiercioch is absolutely fine defensively. At times he makes mistakes (who doesn't), but they are the kind that are remedied with coaching and experience.
YNWA14
Onbreekbaar
- Dec 29, 2010
- 34,543
- 2,560
To be fair if it were that simple everyone would be a defensive specialist. Some guys just never get that side of the game. It's easier to teach because it's more systematic and you're generally following/predicting the other player as opposed to being forced to be creative...but it's still not as simple as saying someone can just learn it.
I'm confident Wiercioch can become serviceable defensively while being good offensively.
BonkTastic
ಠ_ಠ
I said if he didn't fix the defensive side of his game, he'd end up as a 3rd pair D who can sub into the top 4 if there are injuries.
And I stand by that.
As for the rest: you're setting up a strawman about my views on Weircioch. Saying I think "he's so bad" and all this. I never said he was a bad player: in fact, I think I've sung his praises quite often this season. I think he's quite bad defensively at the moment, yes. You seem to think the opposite. We have two opposing, subjective views.
Take a pill and chill out, chum. It's not the end of the world that someone on the internet disagrees with you. You'll wake up tomorrow morning, I promise. The sky will not fall. The earth will not explode.
Everything is going to be ok.
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