Tawnos
A guy with a bass
And the guy who played Maddox doesn’t really act anymore. In the last 15 years, he’s only done one guest spot (two episodes) on a crime procedural and a part in a short... which itself was more than 5 years ago.
Patrick Stewart to reprise role as Star Trek's Jean-Luc Picard
- Thread starter Puck
- Start date
And the guy who played Maddox doesn’t really act anymore. In the last 15 years, he’s only done one guest spot (two episodes) on a crime procedural and a part in a short... which itself was more than 5 years ago.
ProstheticConscience
Check dein Limit
The costumed caper was stupid.
Thought the gangster chick was Deanna Troi at first; what a weird character arc that would have been.
Liking the fact that this universe is more lived in and dangerous than the Trek universe has been previously. Not just that people swear or there's violence, but the spandex utopia got plain boring after the first few...decades. Here you can really think that there's a lawless outer edge of the Federation where you get things like xenophobic Romulan cafe gangs, vigilante squads and a ruthless Borg parts resale trade.
Thought the gangster chick was Deanna Troi at first; what a weird character arc that would have been.
Liking the fact that this universe is more lived in and dangerous than the Trek universe has been previously. Not just that people swear or there's violence, but the spandex utopia got plain boring after the first few...decades. Here you can really think that there's a lawless outer edge of the Federation where you get things like xenophobic Romulan cafe gangs, vigilante squads and a ruthless Borg parts resale trade.
tr83
Nope, still embarassed
I thought the episode was really damn good. Easily the best of the series. I can see as it ages, it could be right up there with the best Trek episodes.
The whole theme of the episode is trauma and Picard is trauma and the effects of suffering trauma.
Many Trekkies bemoaned the fact that the characters in TOS and TNG never seemed to suffer with the psychological effects of suffering trauma. Sure they endured trauma: Tasha being killed, Geordi being abducted multiple times and tortured, Picard being assimilated and tortured by Cardassians, Troi having been telepathically raped multiple time, etc. They mentioned these events in subsequent episodes, but they never really explored the PTSD. DS9 did better. Kira's involvement with the resistance, Sisko's burden of command, Nog getting his leg blown off, O'Brien's role in the Cardassian War.
Janeway used Starfleet ideals to save the Ocampa from the Caretaker. That stranded her crew in the Delta Quadrant. Janeway's idealism slowly eroded as the series progressed. While she preached these ideals to Seven, Seven witnessed Janeway compromise her ideals as she got more desperate to get Voyager home.
Now if my son was being dissected and then asked me to kill him, I would never be the same. Seven's reaction to this trauma is to become a vigilante. Her version of bringing "order to chaos." She saw the opportunity to find the person who was responsible for Icheb's suffering. If it wasn't for the law, how many people would kill the perpetrator in revenge; to sate the need for vengeance? I think it would be more than half.
Picard is pleading to her to take the high road. But faced with that trauma and lawlessness, it was the perfect opportunity to lash out.
And Picard, the series, is allegory, for where as we, as a society, are right now. There are millions out there dealing with the sum of the trauma they've experienced throughout their lives. Some trauma is rooted in senseless death. Some is financial. Some feeling mortality. Some political.
I can see why Stewart found reviving Jean Luc Picard as intriguing.
Starfleet and Federation worlds are reeling from the Borg invasions and the Dominon War. Raffi lost her career and turned to drugs and isolation. Aggie lost her research. Rios watched his captain brutally killed. Picard lost Dahj and Data.
And you are left with a choice: to continue to live optimistically or to live pessimistically. The former being more difficult to do. Picard chooses to live optimistically but the others are reeling. I hope it ends with optimism winning out.
One vibe you got from DS9 was that the outer edges of the Federation was very different than "paradise." The Ferengi, the Orion Syndicate, etc. Freecloud is not a Federation world. It's nice to see a different "vacation" spot other than Risa.
I liked the interactive holographic ads. It also presented an opportunity to let the actors have fun. For those who said that it was dumb, remember TNG dressed everyone up as Robin Hood characters. DS9 had everyone dress up in 1940's garb multiple times and in baseball uniforms. Quark crossdressed for an episode.
I think everybody knew that Aggie was going to kill Maddox as soon as he was moved to sickbay.
Now the bad parts. I could have done without the eye extracting scene. I think Roddenberry would have had a coronary if he saw the gore on display. I think just seeing the tools and then blood curdling screams would have been enough. The phaser should have vaporized Bjayzi, not make her explode into a million pieces. I can't recall exactly what she said, was that Aggie used some slang that is very now right before everyone beamed down.
Frakes did a great job once again.
The whole theme of the episode is trauma and Picard is trauma and the effects of suffering trauma.
Many Trekkies bemoaned the fact that the characters in TOS and TNG never seemed to suffer with the psychological effects of suffering trauma. Sure they endured trauma: Tasha being killed, Geordi being abducted multiple times and tortured, Picard being assimilated and tortured by Cardassians, Troi having been telepathically raped multiple time, etc. They mentioned these events in subsequent episodes, but they never really explored the PTSD. DS9 did better. Kira's involvement with the resistance, Sisko's burden of command, Nog getting his leg blown off, O'Brien's role in the Cardassian War.
Janeway used Starfleet ideals to save the Ocampa from the Caretaker. That stranded her crew in the Delta Quadrant. Janeway's idealism slowly eroded as the series progressed. While she preached these ideals to Seven, Seven witnessed Janeway compromise her ideals as she got more desperate to get Voyager home.
Now if my son was being dissected and then asked me to kill him, I would never be the same. Seven's reaction to this trauma is to become a vigilante. Her version of bringing "order to chaos." She saw the opportunity to find the person who was responsible for Icheb's suffering. If it wasn't for the law, how many people would kill the perpetrator in revenge; to sate the need for vengeance? I think it would be more than half.
Picard is pleading to her to take the high road. But faced with that trauma and lawlessness, it was the perfect opportunity to lash out.
And Picard, the series, is allegory, for where as we, as a society, are right now. There are millions out there dealing with the sum of the trauma they've experienced throughout their lives. Some trauma is rooted in senseless death. Some is financial. Some feeling mortality. Some political.
I can see why Stewart found reviving Jean Luc Picard as intriguing.
Starfleet and Federation worlds are reeling from the Borg invasions and the Dominon War. Raffi lost her career and turned to drugs and isolation. Aggie lost her research. Rios watched his captain brutally killed. Picard lost Dahj and Data.
And you are left with a choice: to continue to live optimistically or to live pessimistically. The former being more difficult to do. Picard chooses to live optimistically but the others are reeling. I hope it ends with optimism winning out.
One vibe you got from DS9 was that the outer edges of the Federation was very different than "paradise." The Ferengi, the Orion Syndicate, etc. Freecloud is not a Federation world. It's nice to see a different "vacation" spot other than Risa.
I liked the interactive holographic ads. It also presented an opportunity to let the actors have fun. For those who said that it was dumb, remember TNG dressed everyone up as Robin Hood characters. DS9 had everyone dress up in 1940's garb multiple times and in baseball uniforms. Quark crossdressed for an episode.
I think everybody knew that Aggie was going to kill Maddox as soon as he was moved to sickbay.
Now the bad parts. I could have done without the eye extracting scene. I think Roddenberry would have had a coronary if he saw the gore on display. I think just seeing the tools and then blood curdling screams would have been enough. The phaser should have vaporized Bjayzi, not make her explode into a million pieces. I can't recall exactly what she said, was that Aggie used some slang that is very now right before everyone beamed down.
Frakes did a great job once again.
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Jussi
Registered User
Since season two has been confirmed, I can see the big picture being Picard fighting to change Federation back into what it was supposed to be like.
tr83
Nope, still embarassed
I would like to see a spin off series where you see some former and current Starfleet officers fighting for it
Jussi
Registered User
Mimsy
Registered User
- Mar 21, 2015
- 434
- 234
tr83
Nope, still embarassed
I just thought that it could be the primary focus of a new crew with other multiple arcs mixed in with some storytelling instead of one serialized story
Roo Returns
Skjeikspeare No More
Funny you all though she looked like Troi. I thought she was more like Gal Gadot.
@tr83 TOS dealt with trauma, not all the time but subtlety in both the series and movies. Different era for how characters were wrote. Star Trek V the best scenes were with Sybok/Kirk/Spock/McCoy dealing with the pain (campfire scenes were enjoyable too). Even though V is not a good movie and never referenced, you can make an argument that Kirk "not dealing with his trauma/pain" planted the seed for Star Trek VI when he finally had to address the death of his son and the impact it had on his life.
Uhura deals with loneliness a few times in TOS and also again in V with her sudden romantic interest in Scotty.
The best example is in "Beta Canon" the book entitled The Sundered which is an Excelsior novel with Sulu/Chekov/Rand/Tuvok. Chekov really addresses everything that happened in TWOK, the PTSD, the guilt for getting Terrell killed, the therapy he's had to go for it since, and from a career standpoint, Starfleet viewed him as damaged goods and he knew he would never have a ship of his own and rise above the rank of Commander. It was very refreshing.
@Jussi I think Picard may 'win" or "save the day" this season or next, but it's going to damage Starfleet and the Federation. That's the alleged tie in to Discovery; the Federation by the 31st century is corrupted and many members left. Only six planets remain.
It just wasn't a good episode. If the show was 22-25 episodes like TNG/DS9/Voyager, fine you can do some goofy shtick, but you only have 10 episodes at barely 40 minutes to tell a story. You can't afford to have a throw away episode. Elnor should have done more. The first four episodes have been all about "Final Fantasying" a crew together, and now you only have 200 minutes to get them on a real purpose, and have a resolution.
It's definitely more good than bad and it's 1000000x better than Nemesis, but the arguments that it's not fully Trek are accurate. It feels like a comic book spinoff or a video game in an extended universe, especially that they now have the 7 of 9 "special attack token" they can use when fighting the final boss lol.
@tr83 TOS dealt with trauma, not all the time but subtlety in both the series and movies. Different era for how characters were wrote. Star Trek V the best scenes were with Sybok/Kirk/Spock/McCoy dealing with the pain (campfire scenes were enjoyable too). Even though V is not a good movie and never referenced, you can make an argument that Kirk "not dealing with his trauma/pain" planted the seed for Star Trek VI when he finally had to address the death of his son and the impact it had on his life.
Uhura deals with loneliness a few times in TOS and also again in V with her sudden romantic interest in Scotty.
The best example is in "Beta Canon" the book entitled The Sundered which is an Excelsior novel with Sulu/Chekov/Rand/Tuvok. Chekov really addresses everything that happened in TWOK, the PTSD, the guilt for getting Terrell killed, the therapy he's had to go for it since, and from a career standpoint, Starfleet viewed him as damaged goods and he knew he would never have a ship of his own and rise above the rank of Commander. It was very refreshing.
@Jussi I think Picard may 'win" or "save the day" this season or next, but it's going to damage Starfleet and the Federation. That's the alleged tie in to Discovery; the Federation by the 31st century is corrupted and many members left. Only six planets remain.
It just wasn't a good episode. If the show was 22-25 episodes like TNG/DS9/Voyager, fine you can do some goofy shtick, but you only have 10 episodes at barely 40 minutes to tell a story. You can't afford to have a throw away episode. Elnor should have done more. The first four episodes have been all about "Final Fantasying" a crew together, and now you only have 200 minutes to get them on a real purpose, and have a resolution.
It's definitely more good than bad and it's 1000000x better than Nemesis, but the arguments that it's not fully Trek are accurate. It feels like a comic book spinoff or a video game in an extended universe, especially that they now have the 7 of 9 "special attack token" they can use when fighting the final boss lol.
Guardian17
Strong & Free
Jussi
Registered User
RobBrown4PM
Pringles?
- Oct 12, 2009
- 8,887
- 2,794
What a travesty, I can't believe they did that to Icheb.
Star Trek is dead in this new era. Congrats, apologists, your boy Kurtzman has turned Trek on to it's head and morphed it in to a abomination.
Long live the Orville
Star Trek is dead in this new era. Congrats, apologists, your boy Kurtzman has turned Trek on to it's head and morphed it in to a abomination.
Long live the Orville
DaBadGuy316
Registered User
It's not perfect but I'm enjoying it. Don't even mind the fan service.
Jussi
Registered User
Really liked this week's episode. How the intensity kept building towards the end. Riker and Troi next week!
Guardian17
Strong & Free
ProstheticConscience
Check dein Limit
Ugh. Hugh. Didn't even realize that was him. I mean, I know it all obviously takes place in the same universe and everything, but the cameos to old characters are pissing me off.
Romulan space ninja dude getting his sword out to cover their escape...yeah. They have guns, you tit. "Please. Choose to live." Oh yeah, okay, I'll just....oh, I dunno...shoot you from 30 feet away with this disruptor rifle!! How's that? That was lame. Even lamer how next episode will totally open with him casually stepping around pools of green blood and dismembered Romulan red shirts as he walks Hugh back to his office.
Romulan space ninja dude getting his sword out to cover their escape...yeah. They have guns, you tit. "Please. Choose to live." Oh yeah, okay, I'll just....oh, I dunno...shoot you from 30 feet away with this disruptor rifle!! How's that? That was lame. Even lamer how next episode will totally open with him casually stepping around pools of green blood and dismembered Romulan red shirts as he walks Hugh back to his office.
That was significantly better than the last episode and made it look all the more like a joke. It was more serious and more consistent. It still wasn't good, but it was better.
I had to crack a smile when Picard and Hugh embraced. Their brief interaction reminded me more of TNG than most things in the show.
I didn't feel much mystery or intensity throughout the episode. We knew that she's an android, so her finding the clues of it had no impact. We also knew that that's the secret that her dreams would eventually reveal. We also knew that Picard was going to show up just in time to rescue her from Romulan lover boy, whom we also knew was up to no good.
Every episode so far has had a jarring use of modern Earth slang. Last week, it was "sucking" (or was it "sucks"?). This week, it was "in-butting." Why would a young Romulan space ninja who's seemingly never left his home planet use a bit of Earth slang like that?
The ending scene was pretty cringe worthy, with ninja boy striking a pose and uttering his corny warning
I can't help but wonder if it would've been better if Picard had simply enlisted Worf to be his bodyguard, instead. An old, beaten up, weary warrior in an established martial arts tradition, who also has a long history with Picard and dislikes Romulans, would've made more sense and been more compelling than a nubile Romulan ninja pledging his life to an old guy that he barely knows. On the other hand, the writers might've then been tempted to kill Worf off, since I suspect that that will be ninja boy's fate. He'll probably die defending Picard, who'll then have a reason in the last few scenes of the season to return to the boy's planet to grieve.
I had to crack a smile when Picard and Hugh embraced. Their brief interaction reminded me more of TNG than most things in the show.
I didn't feel much mystery or intensity throughout the episode. We knew that she's an android, so her finding the clues of it had no impact. We also knew that that's the secret that her dreams would eventually reveal. We also knew that Picard was going to show up just in time to rescue her from Romulan lover boy, whom we also knew was up to no good.
Every episode so far has had a jarring use of modern Earth slang. Last week, it was "sucking" (or was it "sucks"?). This week, it was "in-butting." Why would a young Romulan space ninja who's seemingly never left his home planet use a bit of Earth slang like that?
The ending scene was pretty cringe worthy, with ninja boy striking a pose and uttering his corny warning
I can't help but wonder if it would've been better if Picard had simply enlisted Worf to be his bodyguard, instead. An old, beaten up, weary warrior in an established martial arts tradition, who also has a long history with Picard and dislikes Romulans, would've made more sense and been more compelling than a nubile Romulan ninja pledging his life to an old guy that he barely knows. On the other hand, the writers might've then been tempted to kill Worf off, since I suspect that that will be ninja boy's fate. He'll probably die defending Picard, who'll then have a reason in the last few scenes of the season to return to the boy's planet to grieve.
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Jussi
Registered User
That was so f***ing badass!
Worf is ambassador Worf now so he couldn't have helped. And Michael Dorn is kind of old too.
Edit: For Elnor's poor use of slang, this was from the TrekCore review:
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I forgot to mention something last night. It's only a nitpick, but Picard was holding the wrong side of his face when he was remembering his Borg implants. The writers and/or director were evidently hoping that we'd be impressed by the clever visual trick and not actually think about it.
Dorn's age doesn't really matter because he'd be buried under costume and makeup, there could be a stunt double and it'd be conceivable that Klingon warriors would stay fit longer than humans. Still, Worf's age is what would've made it interesting, IMO. He's too old for mortal combat, but he's highly stubborn and bound by honor to protect his old friend. It would've conveyed real devotion, not this questionable, paper-thin, exposition-requiring variety that the kid is employing. Besides, I was thinking that the inclusion could be modeled after the trope of the over-the-hill warrior, particularly samurai. An old dude with grey hair and beard employing 50 years of experience and mind-body awareness to defeat opponents much younger than them would be a lot more "badass" than a young twerp striking a pose and uttering a catchphrase, IMO.
Dorn's age doesn't really matter because he'd be buried under costume and makeup, there could be a stunt double and it'd be conceivable that Klingon warriors would stay fit longer than humans. Still, Worf's age is what would've made it interesting, IMO. He's too old for mortal combat, but he's highly stubborn and bound by honor to protect his old friend. It would've conveyed real devotion, not this questionable, paper-thin, exposition-requiring variety that the kid is employing. Besides, I was thinking that the inclusion could be modeled after the trope of the over-the-hill warrior, particularly samurai. An old dude with grey hair and beard employing 50 years of experience and mind-body awareness to defeat opponents much younger than them would be a lot more "badass" than a young twerp striking a pose and uttering a catchphrase, IMO.
Guardian17
Strong & Free
Jumptheshark
Rebooting myself
I do not think they know how to use the kid/bodyguard correctly. He could be a very interesting character but they are doing nothing with him
He reminds me of Ariam in Discovery Season 2...
...a character written in and not used much or fleshed out because he/she is just a disposable one that the writers will eventually kill off to try to effect (unearned) emotional drama.
If it makes you feel any better, if you had continued watching, you would've quit after Episode 5, anyways.
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