I’m hearing their biggest needs are RHD and 2C. This doesn’t solve it.
Proposal: Patrick Laine trade?
- Thread starter jacketsnation
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Iron Balls McGinty
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Maybe we should also keep in mind that Winnipeg has 15 million in cap space and only has 9 forwards, 4 defensemen and 1 goalie signed. Not sure what they have in the pipeline as far as prospects to take spots but only 4 of those unsigned are RFA. They essentially need to fill their roster with 9 players in that 15 million assuming they carry 23 on the roster.
CBJWerenski8
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I'd offer Anderson+Foudy+Savard and maybe a draft pick. They'd likely ask for Texier, and given our massive need at LW and C I don't see us doing that regardless of how good Laine is.
Finner
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I dont like it but there is reason why im making walls and Jarmo makes these decisions. Its because he is bald.
If a package is what they are looking for, I’d like Jarmo to look at moving Gavrikov, Anderson, Nutivaara and even Merzlikins before essentially any other players. WPG will not be looking to complete their entire offseason just by making 1 trade w the CBJ. They will be looking for prolly 1-2 roster pieces/players to add to their roster and another 1-2 assets they could use to add other players. Consider it a “3 way” trade if you want.
That said, the teams DEFENSE is better with Savard than they are with Werenski. The teams OFFENSE is better with Werenski than they are with Savard.
Would the teams offense be better or worse with Laine or Werenski?? Which team/offense would score more goals??
Why doesn’t Werenski lead his own defensive pair??
Im not saying the value in regards to all (or even most) NHL teams would be the same, but, I’m not sure a package of Texier/Bemstrom -or- Texier/Savard or Gavrikov isn’t more valuable to the CBJ now and moving forward than Werenski is.
That said, the teams DEFENSE is better with Savard than they are with Werenski. The teams OFFENSE is better with Werenski than they are with Savard.
Would the teams offense be better or worse with Laine or Werenski?? Which team/offense would score more goals??
Why doesn’t Werenski lead his own defensive pair??
Im not saying the value in regards to all (or even most) NHL teams would be the same, but, I’m not sure a package of Texier/Bemstrom -or- Texier/Savard or Gavrikov isn’t more valuable to the CBJ now and moving forward than Werenski is.
I think Winnipeg specifically is looking for RHD plus Gavrikov isn’t entirely proven in the NHL. I can see them going for Savard if they can verbally agree on re-signing. No way they deal Laine for Savard if there’s a chance he leaves for free agency
A Korpisalo+Bemstrom package is just as (IMO more) valuable as Gavrikov+Foudy. Anderson and Gavrikov probably have similar value. I value Texier very highly, like many others. But, I also value Korpisalo just as much and believe Bemstrom also has “real deal” potential.
A package of Texier/Korpisalo/Bemstrom/1st (IMO) is HUGE and I would much rather deal ANY combo of players not named Jones/Dubois.
I trade Werenski before a combo of those 3.
They can use assets they get from the CBJ to get the player(s) they “want”.
My main issue moving Savard (other than him being arguably our best defensive defenseman) is, what more are we going to have to add to Savard to get Laine? Do we really have the TEAM DEPTH to trade 3 roster players for 1??
We have the DEFENSIVE DEPTH to trade any defensive player not named Jones, however IMO, we should look to keep both Savard and Murray.
Our offense would be better (would score more goals) with Laine over Werenski and our defense would not be worse.
If WPG will take Anderson-Gavrikov-Nutivaara-1st.....GREAT!!
I won’t cry if it’s Werenski for Laine.
People are really downplaying how good even a “disgruntled” Laine is. You cannot teach what he brings or can bring to the ice. Maybe there’s things Torts (and the org as a whole) could “teach” him, he gels with some players and he becomes the most dangerous goal scorer in the league?
We’ve seen what Jones-Werenski can do, what about Dubois-Laine?!? I like the sounds of Laine-Bjorkstrand-Bemstrom as the “trigger men” on the top 3 lines also.
That said, we have been waiting a long time for the “Jarmo overrating/reaching for the Finn” negative reaction to a trade/draft pick/acquisition....boy, I sure never thought it would be f***ing Laine.
Seems we’ve had just as many people ok with adding Puljujarvi as they are adding Laine.
Seems we’ve had just as many people ok with adding Puljujarvi as they are adding Laine.
hardkorejackets
Registered User
I don't really see a deal getting done for Laine, personally. I decided to join in on the fun, anyhow.
But, If they'd prefer David Savard over Gavrikov- I'd easily do it that way. I'd prefer to keep Gavrikov myself, but I imagine Gavrikov holds more trade value than David Savard. I added Kukan to the deal as he was playing RD on the 3rd pairing for us. I am aware he is left-handed. We could also offer them Andrew Peeke, but I don't know if he's exactly ready for the NHL. I imagine they are wanting NHL ready players.
As for the 2C- Trust me- I'd consider giving them a 2C if we had one. But, Texier and Foudy are the closest hopes, in my opinion, of being a 2C.
Easternbull
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This is still uuuber relevant. Did you watch ALL of the jets games this season and do you actually think Blake Wheeler outperformed Laine this season?!!
Patrik is no longer a one trick pony who can only score on the PP. He will never be Mark Stone defensively but he has rely started to round his game and showcase his elite passing and playmaking along with shielding the puck with his big frame to buy time in both ends of the rink.
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Iron Balls McGinty
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The Athletic just posted an article saying Jarmo is essentially waiting on RFA deals to be signed before trading season will commence so he knows how much money he has to deal with. If PLD and Josh Anderson try to break the bank don't expect much to happen.
If Werenski was involved in a trade for Laine, it better be straight up or Winnipeg adding. That being said, I would never trade Werenski for a player with Laine's character concerns/lack of effort without the puck.
Torts dealing with Laine would be like how he dealt with Bjorkstrand before Bjork listened and improved his play away from the puck. He wouldn't let Laine play like he wants like he did with Bread, because Laine doesn't drive the play like Bread does. I am very hesitant to think Laine would be much better than Bjorkstrand on this currently constructed Jackets team.
The argument to me is this:
One way scoring winger probably 30G 25A (at his best on CBJ 40G 30A) vs 20G 25A #1 defenseman
or for another type of deal:
One way scoring winger probably 30G 25A (at his best on CBJ 40G 30A) vs Texier (good for 15G 15A right now, potential 1/2LW) + Gavrikov (soon to be defensive stalwart of the team, 5G 15A) + Foudy (conservatively 10G 10A right now, potential 2/3 LW and elite PKer) + 1st round pick (this could probably be left out)
I take our end of the deal every time, even if Laine is at his absolute best.
Torts dealing with Laine would be like how he dealt with Bjorkstrand before Bjork listened and improved his play away from the puck. He wouldn't let Laine play like he wants like he did with Bread, because Laine doesn't drive the play like Bread does. I am very hesitant to think Laine would be much better than Bjorkstrand on this currently constructed Jackets team.
The argument to me is this:
One way scoring winger probably 30G 25A (at his best on CBJ 40G 30A) vs 20G 25A #1 defenseman
or for another type of deal:
One way scoring winger probably 30G 25A (at his best on CBJ 40G 30A) vs Texier (good for 15G 15A right now, potential 1/2LW) + Gavrikov (soon to be defensive stalwart of the team, 5G 15A) + Foudy (conservatively 10G 10A right now, potential 2/3 LW and elite PKer) + 1st round pick (this could probably be left out)
I take our end of the deal every time, even if Laine is at his absolute best.
LetsGOJackets!!
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I suspect you would find that Anderson's value (though speculative) is quite a bit higher north of the border than in Columbus. Jenner has been our most inquired about player from other teams, a reputation he has earned for going into the dirty areas and playing a tough game. Giving a 1st and 2nd.. that seals the deal. Savard is older, and plays an older game, but a defensive dman that is willing to hit the ice to block shots is not considered scraps by most teammates. Its just my opinion, but I saw what we traded Nash a way for. I like these guys better. Lets face it, we have a playoff team with these guys at the core, we just can't go farther in the playoffs without goal scoring. It is a fascinating predicament. We retooled from the net out.. what do you trade away in goal or defense that doesn't ruin the positive steps taken. ??
It looks like Winnipeg’s D that is under contract or RFA awaiting new contract is:
Morrissey-Pionk
Dahlstrom-Poolman
Heinola-Niku
Correct me if I’m wrong or missing anyone. Demelo and Kulikov are UFA. Buff is gone.
I don’t think they just need RD. I think they need left, right, and center. I see one top pairing guy and one top 4 guy on paper.
Morrissey-Pionk
Dahlstrom-Poolman
Heinola-Niku
Correct me if I’m wrong or missing anyone. Demelo and Kulikov are UFA. Buff is gone.
I don’t think they just need RD. I think they need left, right, and center. I see one top pairing guy and one top 4 guy on paper.
Yes I don't seriously think Jenner, Savard, and Anderson are old scraps, but in the Laine context they aren't as desirable. Winnipeg is easily the most-frequent team on no-trade lists, it's like if Columbus was a lot colder and windier, 1/3 the size, and was hard to get a flight out of (which I'm told is a sticking point for rich people). And they are trading a 22 year old with a lot of RFA years left and possibly a lot more untapped upside. They can't move him unless they are getting a U25 centerpiece back that has a lot of team control left. Think more like Texier + Foudy + Savard.
I will invert your statement - guys like Savard, Anderson, and Jenner are worth a lot more in the playoffs because they can fight through the tight checking and shutdown opponents. I'm looking at St. Louis a year ago as a team built around that. This year the Isles and Stars got very far and I think the Jackets gave the Lightning more trouble than either of them. It's a shame Josh was just a few days away from returning.
I think Savard is a very valuable 3/4D in the playoffs. When he's in front of the net I call him the "trash compactor". Not that he won't slow down but he hasn't at all so far, if anything he moves better than he did five years ago. Anderson could still be a huge difference maker for a few years to come, we just don't know when he will get too dinged up to play. Jenner is the guy I'm least confident in, it's been a long steady decline for him. Maybe I'm underrating him in some way, I just don't see him getting to the dirty areas quick enough anymore.
Torts gave him gobs of minutes in the playoffs in a pair with Foligno, but then realized that Jenner was struggling vs Tampa. In the last game, where we played in Tampa's end all night, Jenner didn't play much, and it was the Foligno-Wennberg combo that were the best players in the game. I've been wanting Wennberg in that shutdown role for a long time. I'm not sure what we'd do with Jenner though, he might give more value in a trade than as our bottom six winger.
You're 100% correct for next year. That D-group needs help everywhere. The Jets fans that only talk about the right side are just focused long term and not thinking about this coming year's problems. At LD Samberg could step in like Gavrikov in a year or two, he's a defensive beast. Heinola is also a good long term play for top four LHD.
So they'd be more willing than most to pay up for Peeke or an extended Savard. Gavrikov would be great but a LD stopgap would be more cost-effective for them.
Iron Balls McGinty
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LetsGOJackets!!
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Excellent points made.. and I understand why the Peg would reject my proposal. Just thought we could add enough draft picks to make it happen
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
I don't think "snipers" score in a vacuum, and I consequentially don't think Laine helps us enough to be worth the inevitable asking price.
Who knows, if the Wennberg buyout and Laine trade happen then maybe Torts is more inclined to try someone like Texier or Foudy at center which could drastically change the line combinations.
That's a mighty big gamble I will admit.
LetsGOJackets!!
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I would even take this thought further that wing snipers are more likely to require the right situation, the right vacuum to produce, while center snipers can move the puck and create their own shots. Pavel Bure, Dany Heatley could do it on their own similar to what we experienced with Bread. Basically I get your drift - but lining up Laine next to PLD may elevate both of them to that next tier. Schiefele didn't like playing with Laine and he still scored goals. Sometimes the chemistry doesn't work like you think it will. Sometimes it looks and seems natural. I think that is dependent on the mental makeup of the situation as well. In Torts arena.. I go back to Lecavalier and St Louis. No center wing combo did it better than those two
