Patrick Eaves vs. Chris Higgins

[AH]

I never said he was good defensively, but if Higgins is so great defensively why does he have a worse plus minus on a better team?

Either way, it's not like the difference between the two is so big that it's laughable like you put it.

Maybe because Wellwood is never on the ice against the other teams top lines while Higgins is always there.

As usual, you guys display your usual ignorance on what constitutes a valuable entity on an NHL team. Looking at stats proves nothing, especially when the majority of Wellwood's were collected early in the season, while Higgins have come in games in the second half when the stakes are at their highest. You always take the playoff performer over Mr. October.

 

[The Fuhr*]

I never said he was good defensively, but if Higgins is so great defensively why does he have a worse plus minus on a better team?

Either way, it's not like the difference between the two is so big that it's laughable like you put it.

Wellwood with his massive +5 compared to Higgins even rating.

Chris Clark +11 Kris Draper +2

I guess +/- is the key stat in deciding defensive play. Clark must be way better then Draper defensivly.

 

[Raging Bull]

So you guys think Higgins is a much better prospect than Wellwood, correct? No one in their right mind would compare a former OHL scoring champion and someone who was fourth in AHL points last season to him right? Just wondering.........



And your right, +/- is a pretty useless statistic I shouldn't even have used it.

 

[Redden Punches Faces*]

I thought the Wellwood comparison in the AHL last year was Spezza?

 

[NyQuil]

Eaves has been playing with a way better team for the most part of the season... Habs started to play hockey after the Olympic break..

Eaves wasn't even playing on the Senators in October and November when they were at their best. I don't really think you know what you're talking about on this issue.

He was only on the roster pretty much when the injuries began to occur, which coincidentally is also when the team's fortunes swung downwards for a spell.

 

[Raging Bull]

I thought the Wellwood comparison in the AHL last year was Spezza?

I don't recall that, but I do know that whoever coached them both in Belleville (when they were traded for eachother straight up) said that they would end their NHL careers with around the same point totals.


I wouldn't compare Wellwood to Spezza at all though, I'm not crazy.

 

[417]

So you guys think Higgins is a much better prospect than Wellwood, correct? No one in their right mind would compare a former OHL scoring champion and someone who was fourth in AHL points last season to him right? Just wondering.........



And your right, +/- is a pretty useless statistic I shouldn't even have used it.

Look man...I personally don't think it's close, Higgins is a much better player than Wellwood in all facets of the game except playmaking, everything else he's heads and shoulders above Wellwood...that's not a knock on Wellwood though...

If you want to talk junior stats, well Higgins was rookie of the year in his conference and the best player on his team and conference the whole 2 years he was there, and that was on a bare Yale team.

If you like Wellwood over Higgins, that's your perogative...but I think you're way off if you think he's a better player, I think it's obvious who is.

 

[The Fuhr*]

So you guys think Higgins is a much better prospect than Wellwood, correct? No one in their right mind would compare a former OHL scoring champion and someone who was fourth in AHL points last season to him right? Just wondering.........

Simon Gamoche will be as good as wellwood by your standards
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php3?encode=TRUE&pid=43789
Finished a point back of Wellwood in the AHL last season,
http://www.theahl.com/AHLStatistics0405/scoringleaders.html

 

[Raging Bull]

Look man...I personally don't think it's close, Higgins is a much better player than Wellwood in all facets of the game except playmaking, everything else he's heads and shoulders above Wellwood...that's not a knock on Wellwood though...

If you want to talk junior stats, well Higgins was rookie of the year in his conference and the best player on his team and conference the whole 2 years he was there, and that was on a bare Yale team.

If you like Wellwood over Higgins, that's your perogative...but I think you're way off if you think he's a better player, I think it's obvious who is.

Okay, I don't think it's wrong to say Higgins is the better player, but to say it isn't even close when they have almost exact same statistics in their rookie years is a little goofy don't you think?

 

[Raging Bull]

Simon Gamoche will be as good as wellwood by your standards
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php3?encode=TRUE&pid=43789
Finished a point back of Wellwood in the AHL last season,
http://www.theahl.com/AHLStatistics0405/scoringleaders.html

Well, seeing as how he had many chances in the NHL and couldn't cut it, where as Wellwood has made the team once and stuck and shown that he can score at an NHL level, I don't think that's a very good comparison at all.

 

[417]

Okay, I don't think it's wrong to say Higgins is the better player, but to say it isn't even close when they have almost exact same statistics in their rookie years is a little goofy don't you think?

Not at all, stats unless you're name is Crosby, Ovechkin, Svatos etc...for a rookies have alot to do with you you're playing with and how much ice time you're getting...

But I agree, Wellwood is a good player and will be in his own right and it's not fair to say it's not even close.

 

[NyQuil]

None of the three players mentioned (including Wellwood) have been given a huge shot to succeed, and are noteworthy due to their production in spite of the opportunities they've been given.

In the case of Montreal and Ottawa, sufficient forward depth has made it difficult. In Toronto's case, I would say the preference of Quinn to play his veterans has hampered Wellwood's ability to showcase his abilities.

Obviously too early to call at this point, though I will say that Eaves and Higgins may have more of a physical aspect to their game. That's just my impression though, I could be wrong.

However, Wellwood is more of a playmaker in style and role and perhaps we're just comparing apples and oranges.

 

[BlueAndWhite]

Well, seeing as how he had many chances in the NHL and couldn't cut it, where as Wellwood has made the team once and stuck and shown that he can score at an NHL level, I don't think that's a very good comparison at all.

Nevermind the fact that Gamache's "1 point behind Wellwood" season came in his fourth AHL year as opposed to Wellwood's second AHL year (Wellwood is 2 years younger than Gamache).

I still fail what the relevance was in bringing Wellwood up besides being a cheap dig over a tired thread where some fans were more than a tad overzealous over Wellwood (and Toronto fans are the only ones guilty of that, right ?).

For the record - I would take Higgins over Wellwood as I view him as being a superior player but the spin and selective arguments people use to defend their player to death get tiresome.

 

[AH]

Not at all, stats unless you're name is Crosby, Ovechkin, Svatos etc...for a rookies have alot to do with you you're playing with and how much ice time you're getting...

But I agree, Wellwood is a good player and will be in his own right and it's not fair to say it's not even close.

Wellwood is ok I guess, but he is more like our Ribeiro.

As for me, I want to get rid of Ribeiro ASAP. Leaf fans want to keep Wellwood, that's their perrogative. Just dont complain when your team gets consistently owned 5 on 5 and has trouble with basic principles of playing the style of hockey needed to win games on a regular basis.

 

[The Fuhr*]

Well, seeing as how he had many chances in the NHL and couldn't cut it, where as Wellwood has made the team once and stuck and shown that he can score at an NHL level, I don't think that's a very good comparison at all.

I agree, I was using an extreame example.

 

[habsfansam]

I never said [Wellwood] was good defensively, but if Higgins is so great defensively why does he have a worse plus minus on a better team?

Perhaps because he wasn't in the scoring role until after the Olympic break, and because montreal went through a horrible period after a hot start that saw lots of people well into the minus.

+/- is usually not very reliable until you start to hit extremes anyway (i.e. Meszaros is freakin unreal with his +/- over +30). Are you really going to base an argument that Wellwood is better defensively because his +/- is 5 rather than Higgin's 0? Especially when Toronto and Montreal have almost the exact same goals for and power play proficiency? Poor argument if you ask me.

The point really should be phrased this way: Higgins is more valuable to Montreal because if moved off the top lines his value doesn't diminish the same way that Wellwood's value would.

 

[Shabutie]

None of the three players mentioned (including Wellwood) have been given a huge shot to succeed, and are noteworthy due to their production in spite of the opportunities they've been given.

Well, Higgins has been given a shot, and since the olympic break he's proven worthy of it (13 g).

 

[NewHabsEra*]

Well, seeing as how he had many chances in the NHL and couldn't cut it, where as Wellwood has made the team once and stuck and shown that he can score at an NHL level, I don't think that's a very good comparison at all.

The leafs have some high quality vets that help some overrated kids to look better... But from Quinn's mouth himself, your kids doesnt make your team winning... Steen is a good one though. Wellwood has some undeniable stickhandling and passing skills but he is miles away to be as effective as guys like Higgins, Eaves are...

 

[BlueAndWhite]

The point really should be phrased this way: Higgins is more valuable to Montreal because if moved off the top lines his value doesn't diminish the same way that Wellwood's value would.

Just a quick note - Wellwood has not spent much time on the top two lines until Jason Allison was lost for the season.

I understand your point that since Higgins can contribute effectively at both ends of the ice, he could be a very effective anywhere in the lineup.

However, so far this season Wellwood has been able to produce offensively despite not being on the top lines for most part of the year.

 

[BlueAndWhite]

The leafs have some high quality vets that help some overrated kids to look better... But from Quinn's mouth himself, your kids doesnt make your team winning... Steen is a good one though. Wellwood has some undeniable stickhandling and passing skills but he is miles away to be as effective as guys like Higgins, Eaves are...

So for the purpose of this discussion we have some high quality vets that make our youngers (who are overrated) look better.

If we started a discussion on the Leafs as a whole, our high quality vets suddenely become overpaid, ineffective, injury prone old players.

I think your last statement is what prompted the response from Raging Bull. Wellwood is not "miles away" from the two in question.

 

[NyQuil]

Well, Higgins has been given a shot, and since the olympic break he's proven worthy of it (13 g).

Right, but that's over a relatively small span of the season.

It's the same in the case of all 3 players.

It's hard to fully establish the capabilities of a player with such a small sample of games in important roles.

 

[Sammy*]

I thought the Wellwood comparison in the AHL last year was Spezza?

Sadly, it was to both Higgins & Spezza.

 

[Shabutie]

Right, but that's over a relatively small span of the season.

It's the same in the case of all 3 players.

It's hard to fully establish the capabilities of a player with such a small sample of games in important roles.

Higgins has been on the first line since February, he's done well since then, he's only been on fire since the olympic break though (shortly after Koivu and Ryder woke up). He was carrying that line for 2 months now everyone is working.

 

[Wondercarrot]

Wellwood, Higgins and Eaves may be comparable in terms of offence i guess but their styles of play Higgins and Eaves vs. Wellwood could be more different.

The former being 6'2" 215# guys trapped in a 5'10" 190# bodies.
Eaves is about as rough and tumble a skill player you are going to see. Lays out big hits, takes a beating and parks himself fearlessly in front of the net.

I like Wellwood, he's a shifty little bugger, but the physical side of his game is non-existent.

 

[Don Draper]

I am going to go out and say Eaves could have himself a Ryan Smyth career. There, I said it