Player Discussion Patrice Bergeron III

[northeastern]

Really happy to see this. I often wondered how I could even have more respect for this man and then he goes and does this. Good on ya PB!

Dude is a saint.

 

[GordonHowe]

Dude is a saint.

*Word.*

 

[GordonHowe]

It's ridiculous how after 17 years, 4 Selkes and all the other accolades Bergeron continues to frequently be underrated. Even at 34, with an enormous amount of playing mileage racked up and a chronic groin problem, he still just put together a season in which he was one of the top 3 two-way forwards in the game. He's just not flashy or overtly amazing at any one aspect so I feel like a lot of the little things he does and which make him such a complete player continue to elude people.

It's hard to argue on something like zone exits without really poring through footage, but I've never identifed it as a weakness in his game and the guy has an uncanny ability to find teammates on break-outs with deft passes. An I missing something? I'd also dispute how you can be rated excellent on D but below average on exits - isn't the latter an integral part of the former?

I used to believe Bergeron was underated, and he was. Yet in the last several years, as he's opened up his offense while maintaining defensive excellence, Patrice has received the credit he richly deserves. Players, fans, coaches, media; all recognize his greatness.

The same can be said (minus the offensive numbers) of Z. Except, perhaps, in MTL, Chara is universally respected and admired. You know, with his size and lack of initial expertise, Zdeno could have easily decided to be a goon.

He didn't do that. He willed himself to be the premiere shutdown defenseman of his era. Chara could certainly be physical, but rarely cheap. And he became a great leader as well.

We've been exceptionally fortunate to have both of these gentlemen play for our Bruins.

 

[neelynugs]

2003 NHL Redraft: Bergeron climbs 44 spots, replaces Fleury at No. 1

bergy goes #1 in a 2003 redraft by these folks

 

[TwineTickler]

2003 NHL Redraft: Bergeron climbs 44 spots, replaces Fleury at No. 1

bergy goes #1 in a 2003 redraft by these folks

Loved seeing that and I totally agree... and considering how good a draft that was, speaks volumes.

 

[Alicat]

He’s perfect. I know I keep posting it but he really is.

 

[Trap Jesus]

That draft has always been funny to keep track of in terms of perception over time. It was always considered legendary but players were going up and down the whole time at the top. Staal jumped out right away, then Getzlaf, Perry and Richards came along in their peaks, then it was Weber with his consistency in his prime years, then it seemed to go back and forth with Getzlaf and Weber with their overall body of work, and then there comes Bergeron just consistently chugging along to the point where now it can't be ignored that he was the best of that class. Would be cool to see that somehow tracked by one of those bar graphs over time, even though that's impossible to do. Like something like this:

 

[Jean_Jacket41]

2003 NHL Redraft: Bergeron climbs 44 spots, replaces Fleury at No. 1

bergy goes #1 in a 2003 redraft by these folks

And he was right into the Habs backyard in Junior and instead they took Cory Urquart like 5 spots before Bergeron.

Suck it losers!

1993 Forever!

 

[Addison Rae]

best two-way player in nhl history

 

[Bruinaura]

According to this, 14 head coaches (not including Cassidy who I assume would have voted for him if he could have) have Bergeron as their top pick for the Selke.

LeBrun: NHL coaches make their Selke Trophy picks and inside...

This year, I decided to poll the NHL’s head coaches for their Selke pick. The poll was conducted last week and I got 30 of the 31 head coaches to respond.

Again, I asked them for their top Selke pick only; I didn’t want five names. The only stipulation is they couldn’t vote for a player on their own team.

The finally tally:

Patrice Bergeron, 14
Sean Couturier, 10
Ryan O’Reilly, 3
Anze Kopitar, 2
Anthony Cirelli, 1

 

[Sheppy]

best two-way player in nhl history

Yep.

 

[ON3M4N]

Here is the thing I think about more and more with Bergeron. Just how long can this guy be in the NHL? His defensive game is so good that even if he gives you little offense, he's still an asset as a #3C defensive specialist. Looking at the last 3yrs of stats, I looked at the production per game of players ranked from 63rd to 93rd. Over the last 3 seasons, a low end #3C is good for 40pts while a high end #3C would give you around 55pts. Right now Bergeron plays at a 85pt pace over the last 3 years. So even if he production is 45% to 65% of what he's doing now, he'd be an effective #3C

At 34yr old now, could we see Bergeron play into his 40's?

 

[Bruinaura]

Here is the thing I think about more and more with Bergeron. Just how long can this guy be in the NHL? His defensive game is so good that even if he gives you little offense, he's still an asset as a #3C defensive specialist. Looking at the last 3yrs of stats, I looked at the production per game of players ranked from 63rd to 93rd. Over the last 3 seasons, a low end #3C is good for 40pts while a high end #3C would give you around 55pts. Right now Bergeron plays at a 85pt pace over the last 3 years. So even if he production is 45% to 65% of what he's doing now, he'd be an effective #3C

At 34yr old now, could we see Bergeron play into his 40's?

His best asset is his brain. As long as his body cooperates, I doubt there's a coach in the league that wouldn't play him as long as he wants to play.

Selfishly I'd love to see him stay on that long, but my guess is he stops before 40. But who knows?

 

[ON3M4N]

His best asset is his brain. As long as his body cooperates, I doubt there's a coach in the league that wouldn't play him as long as he wants to play.

Selfishly I'd love to see him stay on that long, but my guess is he stops before 40. But who knows?

I don't know that I've ever been sad to see a player retire....Bergy for me though will be that guy. I actually have already started to stash money aside in hopes of going to his final game in Boston as well as his jersey retirement. I selfishly hope he plays another 5-7 years so that way my 1yr old twins can see him play and get a chance to appreciate how good he is.

 

[Smitty93]

Here is the thing I think about more and more with Bergeron. Just how long can this guy be in the NHL? His defensive game is so good that even if he gives you little offense, he's still an asset as a #3C defensive specialist. Looking at the last 3yrs of stats, I looked at the production per game of players ranked from 63rd to 93rd. Over the last 3 seasons, a low end #3C is good for 40pts while a high end #3C would give you around 55pts. Right now Bergeron plays at a 85pt pace over the last 3 years. So even if he production is 45% to 65% of what he's doing now, he'd be an effective #3C

At 34yr old now, could we see Bergeron play into his 40's?

Those point numbers look high. What were you using as your qualifier for this?

Just using NHL.com, if you limit it to players with at least 100 games over the past 3 seasons (a reasonable qualifier), and just filter by players listed at C, 63rd would be .56 pts per game (46 point 82-game pace), while 93rd would be .44 pts per game (36 point 82-game pace). That's also a bit high because there are a number of players in there that don't actually play C (Nyquist, Dzingel).

To answer your actual question, I think it's all about health. Besides the concussion early in his career, he's been incredibly healthy up until the past few years. Only missed 9 games this year, but it was 17 in 2018-19 and 18 in 2017-18. His game is built a lot more on smarts than on skating, so he has that going for him, but he's played a lot of hockey in his career, so it's not surprising that his body would start to break down. He certainly has the style of play to keep playing for a while, but he'll have to be careful about his health, especially when he has a history of groin issues.

 

[Baddkarma]

Here is the thing I think about more and more with Bergeron. Just how long can this guy be in the NHL? His defensive game is so good that even if he gives you little offense, he's still an asset as a #3C defensive specialist. Looking at the last 3yrs of stats, I looked at the production per game of players ranked from 63rd to 93rd. Over the last 3 seasons, a low end #3C is good for 40pts while a high end #3C would give you around 55pts. Right now Bergeron plays at a 85pt pace over the last 3 years. So even if he production is 45% to 65% of what he's doing now, he'd be an effective #3C

At 34yr old now, could we see Bergeron play into his 40's?

All depends on his ability to skate. Last playoffs he was hurt in the first round and was never the same for the duration. I think it was a core injury. Had he remained healthy, I think the Bruins win the cup. His skating was impacted that much imho. The grind of 1,000 NHL games will take its toll.

 

[ON3M4N]

Those point numbers look high. What were you using as your qualifier for this?

Just using NHL.com, if you limit it to players with at least 100 games over the past 3 seasons (a reasonable qualifier), and just filter by players listed at C, 63rd would be .56 pts per game (46 point 82-game pace), while 93rd would be .44 pts per game (36 point 82-game pace). That's also a bit high because there are a number of players in there that don't actually play C (Nyquist, Dzingel).

To answer your actual question, I think it's all about health. Besides the concussion early in his career, he's been incredibly healthy up until the past few years. Only missed 9 games this year, but it was 17 in 2018-19 and 18 in 2017-18. His game is built a lot more on smarts than on skating, so he has that going for him, but he's played a lot of hockey in his career, so it's not surprising that his body would start to break down. He certainly has the style of play to keep playing for a while, but he'll have to be careful about his health, especially when he has a history of groin issues.

I typically do a similar qualifier of 100GP for 3 seasons. Its possible when I ran it that I didn't have the 100 game qualifier in.

 

[Emerz]

LeBrun: NHL coaches make their Selke Trophy picks and inside...


The finally tally:

Patrice Bergeron, 14
Sean Couturier, 10
Ryan O’Reilly, 3
Anze Kopitar, 2
Anthony Cirelli, 1

 

[BruinsFanMike82]

 

[Alicat]

Yay Bergy!

 

[TwineTickler]

Record 9th time. Thata boy Bergy. Hope you win it and get #5!

 

[Bruinaura]

I suspect Couturier will get it, and I don't have a problem with that. Although I'd sure like to see Bergeron get #5.

The outrage on Twitter is predictable. Oh the horror of Bergeron getting nominated again. "Reputation!!!!!!! Blah blah blah"

 

[Trap Jesus]

Player	Trophy	Consecutive Seasons Being a Finalist	Year Started	Year Ended	Wins
Wayne Gretzky	Hart	10	1980	1989	9
Bobby Orr	Norris	9	1967	1975	8
Patrice Bergeron	Selke	9	2012	2020	4 (5?)
Frank Boucher	Lady Byng	8	1928	1935	7
Ray Bourque	Norris	7	1990	1996	3
Bobby Orr	Hart	7	1969	1975	3
Pavel Datsyuk	Selke	6	2008	2013	3
Red Kelly	Lady Byng	6	1950	1955	3
Nicklas Lidstrom	Norris	6	1998	2003	3
Pierre Pilote	Norris	6	1962	1967	3
Johnny Bucyk	Lady Byng	6	1970	1975	2
Wayne Gretzky	Lady Byng	6	1987	1992	2
Martin Brodeur	Vezina	5	2003	2008	4
Pavel Datsyuk	Lady Byng	5	2006	2010	4
Bob Gainey	Selke	5	1978	1982	4
Doug Harvey	Norris	5	1954	1958	4
Gordie Howe	Hart	5	1957	1961	3
Denis Potvin	Norris	5	1975	1979	3
Guy Carbonneau	Selke	5	1986	1990	2
Bobby Hull	Hart	5	1964	1968	2
Larry Robinson	Norris	5	1977	1981	2
Martin St. Louis	Lady Byng	5	2007	2011	2
Joe Primeau	Lady Byng	5	1931	1935	1
Syl Apps	Hart	5	1939	1943	0
Nicklas Lidstrom	Lady Byng	5	1999	2003	0
Adam Oates	Lady Byng	5	1993	1997	0
Brad Park	Norris	5	1970	1974	0
Craig Ramsay	Selke	5	1978	1982	0
Teemu Selanne	Lady Byng	5	1996	2000	0
Nicklas Lidstrom	Norris	4	2006	2009	3
Patrick Roy	Vezina	4	1989	1992	3
Frank Brimsek	Vezina	4	1939	1942	2
Jacques Demers	Jack Adams	4	1985	1988	2
Dave Keon	Lady Byng	4	1962	1965	2
Guy Lafleur	Hart	4	1976	1979	2
Syl Apps	Lady Byng	4	1939	1942	1
Phil Esposito	Hart	4	1971	1974	1
Victor Hedman	Norris	4	2017	2020	1 (2?)
Gordie Howe	Hart	4	1963	1966	1
Jaromir Jagr	Hart	4	1998	2001	1
Red Kelly	Norris	4	1954	1957	1
Dave Kerr	Vezina	4	1937	1940	1
Ray Bourque	Norris	4	1982	1985	0
George Hainsworth	Vezina	3	1927	1929	3
Doug Harvey	Norris	3	1960	1962	3
Dominik Hasek	Vezina	3	1997	1999	3
Mike Bossy	Lady Byng	3	1982	1984	2
Bobby Clarke	Hart	3	1975	1977	2
Paul Coffey	Norris	3	1984	1986	2
Dominik Hasek	Hart	3	1997	1999	2
Gordie Howe	Hart	3	1951	1953	2
Rod Langway	Norris	3	1983	1985	2
Jere Lehtinen	Selke	3	1997	1999	2
Alex Ovechkin	Hart	3	2008	2010	2
Andy Bathgate	Hart	3	1957	1959	1
Turk Broda	Vezina	3	1941	1943	1
Bill Cowley	Hart	3	1943	1945	1
Grant Fuhr	Vezina	3	1986	1988	1
Charlie Gardiner	Vezina	3	1930	1932	1
Wayne Gretzky	Lady Byng	3	1980	1982	1
Brett Hull	Hart	3	1990	1992	1
Erik Karlsson	Norris	3	2015	2017	1
Ryan Kesler	Selke	3	2009	2011	1
Miikka Kiprusoff	Vezina	3	2004	2007	1
Anze Kopitar	Selke	3	2014	2016	1
Jarri Kurri	Lady Byng	3	1984	1986	1
Rick Middleton	Lady Byng	3	1982	1984	1
Scott Niedermayer	Norris	3	2004	2007	1
Michael Peca	Selke	3	1997	1999	1
Jean Ratelle	Lady Byng	3	1971	1973	1
Jean Ratelle	Lady Byng	3	1976	1978	1
Clint Smith	Lady Byng	3	1938	1940	1
Jonathan Toews	Selke	3	2013	2015	1
Andrei Vasilevskiy	Vezina	3	2018	2020	1 (2?)
Marcel Dionne	Hart	3	1979	1981	0
Andy Hebenton	Lady Byng	3	1959	1961	0
Normie Himes	Lady Byng	3	1930	1932	0
Ken Hitchcock	Jack Adams	3	1997	1999	0
Henrik Lundqvist	Vezina	3	2006	2008	0
Al MacInnis	Norris	3	1989	1991	0
Ryan O'Reilly	Lady Byng	3	2018	2020	0 (1?)
Marcel Pronovost	Norris	3	1959	1961	0
Esa Tikkanen	Selke	3	1989	1991	0
Bill White	Norris	3	1972	1974	0

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Alicat]

 

[RoccoF14]

Seeing Esa Tikkanen being a Selke finalist for 3 straight years made me spit my coffee on my keyboard......