Player Discussion Patrice Bergeron III

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

dont want to hijack bergerons thread but the award system seems a joke to me.

I dont mind awarding an award to the best dman… but when it simply gets handed to the top scoring dman why even vote??? they got an art ross for highest scorer... create a bobby orr for highest scoring dman and vote the Norris for actual ability to play defense

the selke should go to a guy who is in the league basically only because his defense is outstanding.

I wouldnt mind a 2-way award being created... go ahead and call it the federov trophy if you wish.... for all round 3-zone domination

im not sure why the lady byng can only go to high scorers too.

if it was up to me thered be a whole ton of new trophys and redefined standards for each one

 

[Dr Hook]

dont want to hijack bergerons thread but the award system seems a joke to me.

I dont mind awarding an award to the best dman… but when it simply gets handed to the top scoring dman why even vote??? they got an art ross for highest scorer... create a bobby orr for highest scoring dman and vote the Norris for actual ability to play defense

the selke should go to a guy who is in the league basically only because his defense is outstanding.

I wouldnt mind a 2-way award being created... go ahead and call it the federov trophy if you wish.... for all round 3-zone domination

im not sure why the lady byng can only go to high scorers too.

if it was up to me thered be a whole ton of new trophys and redefined standards for each one

Couldn't agree more. They have all pretty much turned into scoring trophies now.

 

[PB37]

Is this all with Cassidy? Been night and day since he took over.

Most, but not all. With Cassidy, he's a PPG player.

 

[Smitty93]

Is this all with Cassidy? Been night and day since he took over.

Interesting question. You can actually see where the switch flipped, so to speak, and it happened the last year of Claude/first year of Cassidy.

Before 2016-17, Bergeron was getting about 55% defensive zone starts. Starting in 2016-17, that changed so that he was getting 55-60% offensive zone starts. I can't speak to whether the quality of competition changed, but it makes sense that he would score more points with more offensive zone starts.

It's actually similar to Marchand's scoring increasing at the same time, though I attribute that more to him getting powerplay time. He had gotten 1:00-1:30 minutes per game prior to 2016-17. In the past three years, it's been up to 3 minutes per game.

 

[b in vancouver]

dont want to hijack bergerons thread but the award system seems a joke to me.

I dont mind awarding an award to the best dman… but when it simply gets handed to the top scoring dman why even vote??? they got an art ross for highest scorer... create a bobby orr for highest scoring dman and vote the Norris for actual ability to play defense

the selke should go to a guy who is in the league basically only because his defense is outstanding.

I wouldnt mind a 2-way award being created... go ahead and call it the federov trophy if you wish.... for all round 3-zone domination

im not sure why the lady byng can only go to high scorers too.

if it was up to me thered be a whole ton of new trophys and redefined standards for each one

AOF - I for one hate the idea of naming a highest scoring d-man trophy after Bobby Orr as it completely devalues who he was. Leave Orr's name out of it. Call it a Cup Of Coffey if you want but not Orr. The 'Lindsay' or 'Hart' could be renamed 'Orr' - but that's it.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

AOF - I for one hate the idea of naming a highest scoring d-man trophy after Bobby Orr as it completely devalues who he was. Leave Orr's name out of it. Call it a Cup Of Coffey if you want but not Orr. The 'Lindsay' or 'Hart' could be renamed 'Orr' - but that's it.

I will be ripped a new one for this...

I see orr as the single most revolutionary player in history... the games biggest impact player. and thus I see him as the greatest player of all time.

I believe gretzky dominated his era more than anyone so I see him as the only other contender for the greatest player of all time

although to be honest I see Mario Lemieux as the most gifted physical tools of any player ever... if Lemieux had the same passion as orr/gretzky to succeed he probably would have obliterated both of them in the competition.

I do think orr is greatest... but im stuck remembering that the coaching/team defense of that era sucked. that was a time in history where one guy could make more difference because teams were not trained how to shut down individuals. even if orr played today I think he could compete... and if he had access to todays technology I think he could still be the best dman in the nhl… but thats hard to quantify

I watched games from orrs time... I watched guy lafleur a decade later just skate unmolested down the wing and fire off slapshots at cheevers and gilbert. the stars of that era didnt have access to the high performance training of todays players but when a guy had ability like orr or lafleur they could skate in and blast pucks and the goalies would barely move in an attempt to stop it.

as for their ability to play defense... orr was undoubtedly better than most of his era... but the defense of that era was a ton of clutching and grabbing... it was a ton of illegle stick work. I cant blame orr for that, but he was a man of his times. would orr adapt to todays stringent confines to offensive dmen? would he be able to keep in line and be in his spot when the team collapsed down?

he was a remarkable unique talent with great instincts and superior raw tools... but wouldnt we see him similar to erik karlsson if he was transported into todays game?

as an offensive talent I think he would still be special. that creativity he had... that speed he had... once in a generation... but would we consider him a standout defensive dman if he was forced to play today?

I bet he would have a lot of critics if he came along today

when I watched orr play he never got success from doing what he was supposed to do... he was a roving maverick that ran wild like a mustang stallion. a one man wrecking force that played in an era where 1 man could still beat an entire team

 

[Donnie Shulzhoffer]

I will be ripped a new one for this...

I see orr as the single most revolutionary player in history... the games biggest impact player. and thus I see him as the greatest player of all time.

I believe gretzky dominated his era more than anyone so I see him as the only other contender for the greatest player of all time

although to be honest I see Mario Lemieux as the most gifted physical tools of any player ever... if Lemieux had the same passion as orr/gretzky to succeed he probably would have obliterated both of them in the competition.

I do think orr is greatest... but im stuck remembering that the coaching/team defense of that era sucked. that was a time in history where one guy could make more difference because teams were not trained how to shut down individuals. even if orr played today I think he could compete... and if he had access to todays technology I think he could still be the best dman in the nhl… but thats hard to quantify

I watched games from orrs time... I watched guy lafleur a decade later just skate unmolested down the wing and fire off slapshots at cheevers and gilbert. the stars of that era didnt have access to the high performance training of todays players but when a guy had ability like orr or lafleur they could skate in and blast pucks and the goalies would barely move in an attempt to stop it.

as for their ability to play defense... orr was undoubtedly better than most of his era... but the defense of that era was a ton of clutching and grabbing... it was a ton of illegle stick work. I cant blame orr for that, but he was a man of his times. would orr adapt to todays stringent confines to offensive dmen? would he be able to keep in line and be in his spot when the team collapsed down?

he was a remarkable unique talent with great instincts and superior raw tools... but wouldnt we see him similar to erik karlsson if he was transported into todays game?

as an offensive talent I think he would still be special. that creativity he had... that speed he had... once in a generation... but would we consider him a standout defensive dman if he was forced to play today?

I bet he would have a lot of critics if he came along today

when I watched orr play he never got success from doing what he was supposed to do... he was a roving maverick that ran wild like a mustang stallion. a one man wrecking force that played in an era where 1 man could still beat an entire team

Now go to the eat crow thread and point out this.

Christ...

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Bergeron has a new career high in points

Tied career high in goals

3 off his career high in assists

Not bad for 33 yrs old

 

[Mainehockey33]

Not sure Chara ranks in top 5 on D?

Orr, Bourque, Park, Shore? Maybe 5 on D?? Bergeron is a top 5 to me.

I’d say Orr and Bourque are ahead of Chara. I don’t like putting a guy that played in the 1930’s in contention for top 5 greatest of all time because it was a different game back then. I think Chara being a defensive freak and captaining a team to a Stanley Cup puts him ahead of Park.

I’d put Bergeron high on the list for forwards. One of the best two way centers in franchise history, won a cup, etc. Maybe 3rd behind Espo and Chief?

 

[bruinmann77]

Hopefully before Bergy Retires he get to wear the C on his chest

 

[Donnie Shulzhoffer]

Hopefully before Bergy Retires he get to wear the C on his chest

He is to humble to care

 

[PB37]

Hope he gets to 80 points before they shut him down to rest up for the playoff run.

 

[Johnny4778]

.

 

[Johnny4778]

Hopefully before Bergy Retires he get to wear the C on his chest

He will as long as he gets to retire on his own terms. No current bruin or new player will wear a C before Bergeron other than Chara. If Chara plays 7-8 more years than Bergeron will miss the boat. Orr never wore a C he did okay?

 

[Donnie Shulzhoffer]

He will as long as he gets to retire on his own terms. No bruin or new player will wear a C before Bergeron other than Chara. If Chara plays 7-8 more years than Bergeron will miss the boat. Orr never wore a C he did okay?

Miss the boat?

I want him to have Cups not this so called missing out on a letter of the alphabet being sewn on his uniform.

Let’s have some priority here

 

[Johnny4778]

Miss the boat?

I want him to have Cups not this so called missing out on a letter of the alphabet being sewn on his uniform.

Let’s have some priority here

You didn’t read my post correctly. Originally replied to you but meant to quote bruinsmann. Anyway either way Bergeron might not ever get the C or he might... Orr didn’t get one and he made out ok?

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

honestly ive never thought it was a problem for a vet to say something like... im in my last few years, this 'kid' is the future of our team... we will share the C

I mean I think that was the basic situation with middleton/bourque and I dont think it tarnished the C or ruined bourques time as captain. maybe a bit different because bourque was much younger than Bergeron and middleton wasnt the longterm captain passing the mantle down...

when bourque retired his #7 for Esposito it was one of the biggest moment in bruin history because it was done classy/came as a surprise... and was the right thing to do

we got a great opportunity here... opening night next year... announce to a crowd that chara wanted to say something. he quickly thanks the crowd for support last year... he says the team intends to give the fans something to cheer this year... then he says its long past time to give credit where its due... he says Bergeron has paid his dues... he will be honored to share the privledge of being called captain on this team. chara can wear the C on the road and Bergeron can get his opportunity wearing C at home.

I dont see how it insults chara/or the C at all and it would be a moment us fans would remember forever

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

at 33 years of age… and in an injury plagued 61 games... now has tied his career best season for goal scoring and every point is extending his career best point total for a single season

I wish I remember that so called fan who used to post here a few years back trashtalk about Bergeron being finished {actually no I dont... definitely not worth remembering}

Bergeron may not have the type of point totals that leap right out and scream hof {in fact a certain recent argument about terry oreillys worthness to have his uniform retired sort of tells me that Bergeron will be forgotten by the newbies that come as fans in the decades that follow} but those of us seeing this guy play with our eyes... feeling his heart and soul... watching that dedication to winning and 3zone competion and playing through punctured lungs and concusion aftereffects... we will know... we were so damn lucky to see this guy play

oreilly might still be the gold standard to me for heart and soul warrior overachieving through hard hard hard working effort night after night... but if todays kids love Bergeron the same way I loved oreilly, they should consider themselves lucky. guys that play this way never should be forgotten

 

[Donnie Shulzhoffer]

Bergeron already has surpassed O’Reilly and is a guarantee for HOF.

To suggest that he will be forgotten is ludicrous

 

[Dicky113]

I will be ripped a new one for this...

I see orr as the single most revolutionary player in history... the games biggest impact player. and thus I see him as the greatest player of all time.

I believe gretzky dominated his era more than anyone so I see him as the only other contender for the greatest player of all time

although to be honest I see Mario Lemieux as the most gifted physical tools of any player ever... if Lemieux had the same passion as orr/gretzky to succeed he probably would have obliterated both of them in the competition.

I do think orr is greatest... but im stuck remembering that the coaching/team defense of that era sucked. that was a time in history where one guy could make more difference because teams were not trained how to shut down individuals. even if orr played today I think he could compete... and if he had access to todays technology I think he could still be the best dman in the nhl… but thats hard to quantify

I watched games from orrs time... I watched guy lafleur a decade later just skate unmolested down the wing and fire off slapshots at cheevers and gilbert. the stars of that era didnt have access to the high performance training of todays players but when a guy had ability like orr or lafleur they could skate in and blast pucks and the goalies would barely move in an attempt to stop it.

as for their ability to play defense... orr was undoubtedly better than most of his era... but the defense of that era was a ton of clutching and grabbing... it was a ton of illegle stick work. I cant blame orr for that, but he was a man of his times. would orr adapt to todays stringent confines to offensive dmen? would he be able to keep in line and be in his spot when the team collapsed down?

he was a remarkable unique talent with great instincts and superior raw tools... but wouldnt we see him similar to erik karlsson if he was transported into todays game?

as an offensive talent I think he would still be special. that creativity he had... that speed he had... once in a generation... but would we consider him a standout defensive dman if he was forced to play today?

I bet he would have a lot of critics if he came along today

when I watched orr play he never got success from doing what he was supposed to do... he was a roving maverick that ran wild like a mustang stallion. a one man wrecking force that played in an era where 1 man could still beat an entire team

Orr is the best defenseman of all time, Gretzky is the best player of all time. We can argue it and debate it, but the guy has more assists than anyone has points. It’s really not close

 

[Dicky113]

Hopefully before Bergy Retires he get to wear the C on his chest

He’s like prince Charles. It’s getting ridiculous at this point. He’s been the captain for 5 years. I actually am a bit disappointed that Chara wouldn’t show ultimate leadership and hand it over, that would be so cool.

 

[Mainehockey33]

What if Bergeron doesn’t want to be captain? He was interviewed after his 1000 game ceremony and it sounded like he was relieved the patriots were there to take the spotlight off him. I doubt he actively doesn’t want to be captain, but I also believe he doesn’t care if he’s captain or not. He doesn’t have a big ego. Fans want to see it more than he does.

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

dont want to hijack bergerons thread but the award system seems a joke to me.

I dont mind awarding an award to the best dman… but when it simply gets handed to the top scoring dman why even vote??? they got an art ross for highest scorer... create a bobby orr for highest scoring dman and vote the Norris for actual ability to play defense

the selke should go to a guy who is in the league basically only because his defense is outstanding.

I wouldnt mind a 2-way award being created... go ahead and call it the federov trophy if you wish.... for all round 3-zone domination

im not sure why the lady byng can only go to high scorers too.

if it was up to me thered be a whole ton of new trophys and redefined standards for each one

Been reading your posts for many years, and this is your best one IMO. Could not agree more.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Bergeron already has surpassed O’Reilly and is a guarantee for HOF.

To suggest that he will be forgotten is ludicrous

you got a lot more faith in uneducated young'uns then I do... personally, I dont forget but a lot of my aguments here are fundamentally based on ignorance

I might not be smarter than the crowd Donny... but I try to remember the past and learn my lesson. thanks for responding to me without taking a personal insult too... maybe theres hope for us to be buddies after all

 

[Bread and Circuses]

What if Bergeron doesn’t want to be captain? He was interviewed after his 1000 game ceremony and it sounded like he was relieved the patriots were there to take the spotlight off him. I doubt he actively doesn’t want to be captain, but I also believe he doesn’t care if he’s captain or not. He doesn’t have a big ego. Fans want to see it more than he does.

One thing that 1000 game special solidified for me (as if it wasn't obvious already) was that Bergeron is an incredibly humble person, that special was probably the closest look into his world that I have ever seen and you could tell without a doubt that he was not very comfortable talking about himself or his success up to this point in his career.