Discussion in 'The History of Hockey' started by Puckgenius*, Aug 1, 2011.
Just how good was he? Didnt see him in his prime. What were his stengths and weaknesses?
Not someone you want anchoring your first line, but huge on a second line - huge crowd favorite. "Little Ball of Hate" is one of the coolest nicknames ever.
He was pretty clearly a first-line player for most of the period from 1987-1996, save for a couple down years. Averaged 76 points/82 GP for that stretch, which is pretty clearly first-line production, despite having a 47-point season in there. Generally in the neighborhood of 65-75 adjusted points.
He was a guy who made the most of not a lot of talent. 5'9", choppy skater, would never wow you with his puck skills. Had a good set of hands and a good hockey brain, but was successful because he never stopped moving his feet and was willing to pay a huge price to go to dirty areas to score points. Because he was such a smart player, he worked well with skilled centers (like Ron Francis) and wasn't just a shooter either.
Hugely feisty and an agitator, although the flipside of that was that he took a lot of undisciplined penalties. Average defensive player.
Oddly, he was actually quite a poor playoff performer despite being a guy you'd think was 'made' for the postseason. Might have been because he was operating at 100% during the regular season when everyone else was at 90%, and when the rest of the league upped their games he looked more ordinary.
Too much just looking at the numbers and not the context imo.
He was rarely on a team that made the playoffs through his prime.
Aside from a surprise run early in his career by the Devil's in '88, where he put up a decent 12 points in 20 games, he only got into the playoffs 3 more times before his 31rst b-day. 4 times in 12 years and 3 of those were with the Whaler's facing the Bruin's or Habs all 3 times in the first round heh. Unless you're going to also say that Ron Francis was a poor playoff performer as well, he didn't do much better than Verbeek with Hartford in the post season.
His career was just about to start its downside when he began making it into the postseason consistently. His last 6 years in the league, he was not only a declining player but his role had changed as well.
Little Ball of Hate was appropriate, he was not a fun guy to play against.
What I miss the most though are all the jokes like..."Yep, Pat really has a nose for the net." and stuff like that
Agree with this and the 1st thing I remembered about him was that he was Stan Smyl with better hands and hockey sense.
A 1st line guy on a weak to middle team but a 2nd line guy who brought intangibles to a winning team.
In terms of impact, and style of play kinda like Ryan Callahan from the Rangers.
Disagree. He was pretty consistently a poor playoff performer, including points where he was having strong regular seasons on good teams.
His line (Broten-Muller-Verbeek) stunk for NJ in 1988, was their #1 line through the regular season but vanished in the playoffs and the Devilsâ€™ 2nd line with MacLean and Sundstrom carried the team through that run. He scored at a 50 goal/80GP clip in the regular season, then had 4 in 20 playoff games. Lost his spot as the #1 RW for the Devils to MacLean, spent the next year struggling on the 2nd line, and was traded.
Absolutely, give him a pass on his Hartford years.
But then he was a -16 in 21 playoff games as a Ranger (put up some PP points, but was ventilated at ES).
Then he went to Dallas, and was very poor there. Scored 31 goals in 1997-98, then had 3 goals and 5 points in 17 playoff games. Was used in a more limited role the year Dallas won the Cup, but his production dropped in the playoffs yet again.
Then he went to Detroit, had 22 goals and 48 points in 1999-00 and followed it up with 2 points in 9 playoff games.
Basically, the guy had a very long career where he made the playoffs a dozen times, sometimes with very good teams, and never had a â€˜definingâ€™ playoffs or a playoffs where he was one of the best players on his team. On the flipside, he had several years where he was very disappointing.
89-96 with a minimum of 350 games, he's #37 for PPG and #27 for total points, #22 for GPG and #15 for total goals.
Going by these stats I'd say he was a slightly above average 1st line player.
Pat Verbeek in his prime had the coolest last name. #TRUTH
Similar style of player to Brad "Ver-beak" Marchand
Early in his career he severed a tendon in his hand or almost lost fingers or something like that. Farming accident as I recall. His story after he became an unexpected annual 40 goal scorer: "all the cement poured out."
Yeah that sounds right now that you mention it. Would explain the mediocre skating.
I see what you did there.
Yeah...I'm pretty subtle..
He was one of those guys who, for most of his career, was regarded as one of the most underrated players in the league. But that's what playing hockey in 1980s New Jersey, and then playing in Hartford, will do for you. Once he got out of Hartford, and went to New York, a lot of people realized that he was a pretty damn good player. It helped that he was on the same line as Messier in 1995-96 - when Messier was an absolute force - but Verbeek probably would have flirted with 50 goals and 100 points that season if he didn't get hurt. (His pro-rated numbers fall a little short of 50/100, but it wouldn't be impossible for him to get nine goals and 18 points in 13 games).
He was a lot more than just "a good second line winger who was a first liner on bad teams." The Rangers thought enough of him to trade for him less than 12 months after they won the Cup. And they thought enough of him to put him on Messier's line. New York wasn't the team in 1995 and 1996 that they were in 1994, but they still had a good team that was good enough to get to the second round both seasons. Verbeek was a legit first line winger who brought a lot of skill and energy. He sort of sticks out when you look at the list of guys with at least 500 goals, but "a good second line winger who was a first liner on bad teams" isn't going to score 500 goals in The Show, no matter how many games he plays.
Really liked him as a Ranger later on in his career although it was short-lived. With Verbeek and Messier it was all about goals and penalty minutes in 95-96.
Messier 47G 122 PIM
Verbeek 41G 129 PIM
Very entertaining line that year. Anyone other than Verbeek reach 500 goals and 2500 penalty minutes? He might be the only one.
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