Pat Verbeek gets almost 3000 PIMS

Discussion in 'The History of Hockey' started by DickSmehlik, Dec 31, 2010.

  1. DickSmehlik

    DickSmehlik Registered User

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    How did a little guy like Pat Verbeek amass almost 3000 Penalty minutes in his career?

    I know longevity had a little do to with it but was he really that much of a scrapper?
     
  2. seventieslord

    seventieslord Student Of The Game

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    funny thing is, I don't remember him fighting all that much, but I do remember a quote where someone asked him why he fights and he said "because it's there." - but at the same time he has no memorable bouts that I can think of.

    dropyourgloves.com has him with 65 fights, so I was "sorta" right because it meant he only got into a fight about every 22 games.

    So he had 2805 non-fight PIM in 1541 games (reg + PO), almost two per game.

    I haven't seen many totals higher than that. Dude was a penalty machine, and not in a good way. (although knowing him, you have to think he took a lot of players to the box with him even without fighting)
     
  3. cynicism

    cynicism Registered User

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    They called him The Little Ball of Hate for good reason.

    I don't have the most vivid memories of him, but I recall he was quite chipppy, physical and most likely chirpy as well. Plus he was a decent scorer which added salt to the wounds of his opponents.
     
  4. BraveCanadian

    BraveCanadian Registered User

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    Oh yeah Pat Verbeek was a good player and also chippy as hell.

    He might not have been the biggest guy out there but he made sure he had his space, that's for sure!

    He's a throwback you don't see guys putting up 40-50 goals and 200 pims in a season any more.
     
  5. Dennis Bonvie

    Dennis Bonvie Registered User

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    He made his living close to the net in an era that you paid a heavy price for that. I'd bet he had plenty of off-setting minutes where he got 2 or 4 minutes along with his opponent.
     
  6. jkrx

    jkrx Registered User

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    How do you know that every fight he was in only amassed 5 minutes? Some of those fights are against Mogilny, Garpenlöv, Steen, Sweeny, Leetch so its probable that he jumped those guys and got more than 5 minutes.

    Verbeek fought everyone though. From Mogilny to Ciccone. IF you messed with him he mess with you right back.
     
  7. seventieslord

    seventieslord Student Of The Game

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    that doesn't change that they're still non-fight PIMs and that they'd give the other team a PP...
     
  8. jkrx

    jkrx Registered User

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    Depends too. Lets say Player A slashed Francis and Verbeek jumps player A and they scrap then we have an equal amount of penalties. There is alot of variables. Not saying he didnt have an incredible amount of PIMs but my guess is that some are because of getting thrown out at the end of games.

    Kevin Stevens was worse though. I believe it was during the '91 season that he racked up 250 PIM with only 1 or 2 scraps.
     
  9. DaveG

    DaveG Global Moderator

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    Exactly. I definitely remember him giving (and taking) a lot of abuse in defense of players and in scrums in front of the net. I definitely couldn't give specifics as I really don't know where to get the info for that type of research, but it seemed like quite often if he was going to the box there was someone from the other team going as well.
     
  10. MadArcand

    MadArcand Whaletarded

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    Don't forget misconducts.
     
  11. the_speedster

    the_speedster Registered User

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    http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query="pat+verbeek"&aq=f


    dunno about the non fight part... he was a little **** that's for sure.. but in the years I saw verbeek play he never backed down even a little
     
  12. seventieslord

    seventieslord Student Of The Game

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    well, they don't give the opposition a PP, but at his best, Verbeek was a top-3 player on his team, and if you lose one of your three best for 10 minutes it hurts the team and plays havoc with the lines.

    Isolating out fighting PIMs is an inexact science for sure, but it does give a rough idea of how much a guy put his team down a man... misconducts throw a monkey wrench into it, but to some degree most penalty-takers are going to have reasonably similar proportions of them in their totals. At least I think so.
     
  13. Big Phil

    Big Phil Registered User

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    Verbeek had a funny career. He never had the perception as a feared enforcer or a top tier goal scorer. Yet at the end of his career he had 522 goals and 2905 PIM. He played 20 years so that has something to do with it. But even a guy like Gartner you aren't as surprised when you see him with 700 goals because he had that remarkable streak of consistency (15 years of 30+ goals). It's well documented.

    Verbeek is a different story. No one has a much of a memory about him other than the "little ball of hate" nickname. And I saw the NHL at that time but Verbeek just wasn't a high profile guy. Maybe he got lost in the shuffle because he played for the Devils and then Hartford most of his career.

    If I were to compare him to anyone maybe Dale Hunter is an example. Now Hunter had a different style, he was a dirty player tried and true. But Hunter is a lot like Verbeek where he never stood out at any time in his career, even on his own team yet he got over 1000 points like Verbeek. Neither was ever a star either but just a passionate player who played a long time.

    He's probably the worst 500 goal man in NHL history, or at least the most unlikely. Because really, you expect people to have a wealth of memories of him but there just isn't. How many people know he even won a Cup? And with who? (Dallas 1999). How many people know that he played for Canada in the 1996 World Cup yet just rode the bench? I'll bet a lot of people don't know that about him
     
  14. jkrx

    jkrx Registered User

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    Its easy to forget alot of players who were semi-stars specially when they played a majority of their time during the Gretzky and Lemieux-eras. The difference between him and the others like Andreychuk and McDonald is that he didnt end his career with thunder and lightning and he wasn't flashy like Bondra. Many forget how goo dhe was on the Rangers in 96. Sadly Verbeek is the most unfortunate player. He left Devils just as they started to get good and played for Hartford onlt to get on a post-cup Rangers team. Then he aged badly and played a laid back role on a great Dallas team where he won a cup. Then same mistake again going to a post- back to back cup team Detroit. The worst 500 goal man is still Lanny McDonald in my opinion.
     
  15. lextune

    lextune I'm too old for this.

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    I remember him quite vividly. But that might just be because I saw him at least 8 times a year, (and then often in the playoffs too), for all his years in Hartford.

    He was a *****, lol, but a gifted little goal scorer too....which made "The Save" all the more impressive.

     
  16. Ghost of David Bruce

    Ghost of David Bruce Registered Geezer

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    He was one tough **** and could play on my team anytime.

    A less dirty Dale Hunter, or a less rat-like Ken Linseman would be a good description. He just had the bad luck of playing for low profile or down period teams.

    He's not the worst 500 goal man ever... that would be Pierre Turgeon.
     
  17. seventieslord

    seventieslord Student Of The Game

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    Verbeek over McDonald? You'll have to go into greater detail on that one.
     
  18. Big Phil

    Big Phil Registered User

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    I have my own criticisms about Turgeon but how exactly was he worse than Verbeek? Turgeon might have 10% support around here for the HHOF but at least he has some. Verbeek has none. And the other post putting Verbeek > McDonald? I'm perplexed.
     

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