Part 6: True North Sports & Entertainment's efforts to acquire an NHL team (Winnipeg)

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danishh

Registered User
Dec 9, 2006
33,018
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YOW
Hypothetically, if the Yotes move to Winnipeg this year, and the Thrashers are forced to move this year, where are they most likely to go? Doesn't QC still have some work to do before they can get a team?

i'd give les alexander a call.
 

CHRDANHUTCH

Registered User
Mar 4, 2002
35,232
4,218
Auburn, Maine
i'd give les alexander a call.
Houston's not an option..... remember the Wild control that market..... the other conflict is doesn't AEG have to release the Kings franchise as to not perceive another conflict w/ the Leiweke's running the Kings and the Sprint Center.......
 

Buck Aki Berg

Done with this place
Sep 17, 2008
17,325
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Ottawa, ON
Houston's not an option..... remember the Wild control that market..... the other conflict is doesn't AEG have to release the Kings franchise as to not perceive another conflict w/ the Leiweke's running the Kings and the Sprint Center.......

Can you elaborate, I didn't know this..
 

Steve Passless*

Guest
The Wild's owner also owns the Aeros. They don't "control" Houston; they'd be asked to leave.
 

Buck Aki Berg

Done with this place
Sep 17, 2008
17,325
8
Ottawa, ON
The Coyotes lost money while playing at AWA also.

Can you detail why the Coyotes' lease at Jobing.com was "crappy." Consider that the taxpayers paid $180MM to build the arena. The Coyotes had access to much of the revenue from the building. And as lessee did not have to pay any property taxes.

GHOST

I was saying the lease at AWA was crappy. My source is wikipedia for this one, so I recommend a little sodium chloride on the side ;)
 

Buck Aki Berg

Done with this place
Sep 17, 2008
17,325
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see there is always an excuse
after 15 years there had better be solutions not more excuses

Point being? Is it your money being flushed down the toilet? No? Then don't worry about it.

If the building is full (which it was in the AWA days), that's all that should matter to you. Let the owners worry about making the numbers work. There are plenty of teams that in the red, either by a little or a lot, but that doesn't automatically make them all failures.
 

King Woodballs

Captain Awesome
Sep 25, 2007
39,362
7,374
Your Mind
Point being? Is it your money being flushed down the toilet? No? Then don't worry about it.

If the building is full (which it was in the AWA days), that's all that should matter to you. Let the owners worry about making the numbers work. There are plenty of teams that in the red, either by a little or a lot, but that doesn't automatically make them all failures.

who said I was worried about it?

you are correct it isnt my money being pissed away into a block void

but it is a failure when it is over 500 million in losses in 15 years with not one year in the black. packed arena or not. it doesnt matter
a loss is a loss is a loss

and if it is a good market why cant the NHL find someone to buy and opperate the team there?
 

Buck Aki Berg

Done with this place
Sep 17, 2008
17,325
8
Ottawa, ON
who said I was worried about it?

You seem awfully worried.

you are correct it isnt my money being pissed away into a block void

but it is a failure when it is over 500 million in losses in 15 years with not one year in the black. packed arena or not. it doesnt matter

So what? My point was that the losses were less when they were drawing people. A good lease, and they might have even turned a profit. Even now with the new arena, they'll be reporting losses for year as they pay off the building.

and if it is a good market why cant the NHL find someone to buy and opperate the team there?

I'm suggesting Phoenix is a good market. You're suggesting that the Phoenix Coyotes are a bad business choice. They aren't the same thing.
 

Ripper

Registered User
Sep 19, 2006
179
7
Thrashers to the Peg not Coyotes

I'll still stick to my guns from last summer that it was the Thrashers that were planned to be the team to move to Winnipeg. Maybe the last few Months activities in Phoenix has let the Coyotes back into the mix, but I think I heard today that the Thrashers staff have been told they won't be back next season...can anyone confirm this?
 

danishh

Registered User
Dec 9, 2006
33,018
53
YOW
Houston's not an option..... remember the Wild control that market..... the other conflict is doesn't AEG have to release the Kings franchise as to not perceive another conflict w/ the Leiweke's running the Kings and the Sprint Center.......

an AHL team, especially one owned by an NHL team, will never block the NHL coming to a market. The BOH would tell the wild to move the aeroes, and that would be that. Odds are they'd go to a city that has just lost the NHL team that is moving to houston.

Anyways, i'm a big proponent of Houston being the #1 US target. I cant really say whether that puts them over winnipeg/qc, because there is a whole different set of parameters when moving a team to canada, but the population demographics makes houston even more desirable for the future than atlanta or phoenix, and i believe (correct me if i'm wrong) that houston has the highest number of fortune 500 companies after NYC.
 

pirate94

Registered User
Mar 18, 2010
1,713
1
name one other franchise, pirate94, other than Phoenix, that was put into forced Bankruptcy, which is why the Coyotes are continuing to be an issue off the ice.....

Well the Sabers and Senators filed for bankruptcy protection in 2003 from what i remember reading in Forbes. I thought Pittsburgh did as well before Mario got them, not sure but i won't say they did because i don't remember. all 3 teams are fine financially now though, being in traditional markets helps
Cleveland Barons went under.........i'm sure that Scouts and Seals did the same thing.
 

kdb209

Registered User
Jan 26, 2005
14,870
6
yes, they are, kdb....... if Alexander has/had been smart enough, wouldn't he be an owner by now instead of having to sell off his fortune and essentially have Toyota Center built for him, much the same way TSNE wants or is reported to be in talks to acquire one ?

Your typical non sequitur response.

The issue was whether the presence of the Aeros would be an impediment IF Alexander bought a team to move to Houston (as you repeatedly claim) - whether he has chosen to or not or the state of his current finances are completely irrelevant to that question.
 

CHRDANHUTCH

Registered User
Mar 4, 2002
35,232
4,218
Auburn, Maine
Your typical non sequitur response.

The issue was whether the presence of the Aeros would be an impediment IF Alexander bought a team to move to Houston (as you repeatedly claim) - whether he has chosen to or not or the state of his current finances are completely irrelevant to that question.
it doesn't matter anyway-----Austin seems to become the new center of attention as original SSE owner & Billionaire Red McCombs is funding a new complex which includes a 25K seat arena & a 3.4 mile 20 turn complex track named COTA (Circuit of the Americas) by 2013 which might impact Texas football.....
 

Fugu

Guest
Show me some posts about TNSE and developments towards getting a team in Winnipeg and I won't delete them-- or boot you off this board.
 

MAROONSRoad

f/k/a Ghost
Feb 24, 2007
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0
Maroons Rd.
TSN: McKenzie: We should get answers to our Coyotes questions soon.

Where will the Phoenix Coyotes be playing next season?

Well, since you asked, I will say it's more likely to be Winnipeg than Phoenix. That's my opinion.

I say probably, and qualify it as my "opinion," because all the factual information I can find says to me very clearly that no final or irrevocable decision on the future home of the Coyotes has yet been made by any of the three vested parties - the NHL, the City of Glendale and would-be (under the right circumstances) owner Matthew Hulsizer...

...Is there a chance the Coyotes stay put in Phoenix for next season and beyond? My opinion on that is a qualified yes, it's not entirely out of the question, it could still happen. I think it's probably a longshot at this point...For weeks now, a lot of people in the NHL community at large have been whispering that the Hulsizer deal is dead or on life support with little or no chance of being revived, but, as of this particular moment in time, none of the three vested parties have communicated that in any meaningful way...

I said more than a month or so ago that, for the first time ever, I felt like Winnipeg was a legitimate landing spot for the Coyotes and the return of the NHL to Manitoba could become reality.

For every day that has gone by since then that there hasn't been an announcement the Coyotes are staying Phoenix, I've been getting a stronger feeling that they may actually end up in Winnipeg. With each day that continues to pass without a resolution in Phoenix, that feeling will only intensify.

But for me to suggest it's fait accompli, a done deal...I can't make that leap. Not at this point...

http://tsn.ca/blogs/bob_mckenzie/?id=362122

GHOST
 
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The Kremelin Wall*

Guest
JETS FLY TOGETHER!
Quack quack quack quack quack.. erm.. :sarcasm:
 

cbcwpg

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May 18, 2010
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Between the Pipes
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/br...nets-Coyotes-to-Winnipeg-story-119782404.html

Mark Chipman and his partner David Thomson are still interested in an NHL franchise they would bring to Winnipeg and operate out of the MTS Centre.

Playing stalking horse for the NHL a second time will, however, come with some strings says a U.S.-based attorney with experience in sports franchise transfer-of-ownership deals.

The lawyer, who has been involved in NBA and NHL relocations deals, demanded anonymity but said the next few steps will be common practice in terms of the league’s arrangement with True North.

According to the source, True North will require financial and contractual guarantees to sign a purchase offer that Bettman can then take to Arizona and use to prod Glendale and Hulsizer.

Before True North signs a deal, they’ll want exclusivity, a firm timeline, board of governor approval and likely a seven-figure compensation — called a breakup fee — should the deal sour at the last moment.

True North will insist Bettman only shop their deal to Hulsizer and that no other party be allowed in at the last minute. The NHL will have the opportunity to use this leverage with Hulsizer alone. If he can’t or won’t buy the team — then it’s Winnipeg’s.


So even if the Coyotes stay, TNSE might make some green out of it. Interesting.
 

Jet

Free Capo!
Jul 20, 2004
33,026
31,484
Florida
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/br...nets-Coyotes-to-Winnipeg-story-119782404.html

Mark Chipman and his partner David Thomson are still interested in an NHL franchise they would bring to Winnipeg and operate out of the MTS Centre.

Playing stalking horse for the NHL a second time will, however, come with some strings says a U.S.-based attorney with experience in sports franchise transfer-of-ownership deals.

The lawyer, who has been involved in NBA and NHL relocations deals, demanded anonymity but said the next few steps will be common practice in terms of the league’s arrangement with True North.

According to the source, True North will require financial and contractual guarantees to sign a purchase offer that Bettman can then take to Arizona and use to prod Glendale and Hulsizer.

Before True North signs a deal, they’ll want exclusivity, a firm timeline, board of governor approval and likely a seven-figure compensation — called a breakup fee — should the deal sour at the last moment.

True North will insist Bettman only shop their deal to Hulsizer and that no other party be allowed in at the last minute. The NHL will have the opportunity to use this leverage with Hulsizer alone. If he can’t or won’t buy the team — then it’s Winnipeg’s.


So even if the Coyotes stay, TNSE might make some green out of it. Interesting.

I wonder if they can use that 5MM as a deposit on the Thrashers :)
 

MAROONSRoad

f/k/a Ghost
Feb 24, 2007
4,067
0
Maroons Rd.
RogersSportsnet Rogers Sportsnet
Sources are telling us that the Coyotes could be close to moving to Winnipeg. Is this where you would want them to go?

DamoSpin Damien Cox
Other than official NHL response, nobody appears to be disputing Maclean/Kypreos scoop today on future of Coyotes.

A source with knowledge of the negotiations says the deal to save the Phoenix Coyotes is on its last legs.

The source, which requested anonymity, told the Winnipeg Sun Wednesday the arrangement that would see Matt Hulsizer buy the team from the NHL is "on life support."

The tip confirms a report by Sportsnet Radio which said the deal is "all but dead," and that the team will move to Winnipeg when the Coyotes' season is over.

The Fan 590s' Nick Kypreos and Doug MacLean in Toronto said sources tell them the move will be announced the moment the Coyotes are eliminated from the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

"I was told last night it wasn't going to fly and they're going to Winnipeg," MacLean said.

Added Kypreos: "That's what we keep hearing. That's all. Anybody can change their mind, but that's what's out there (that this deal is as nearly dead)."

Kypreos said it was coincidental that he and MacLean both reported the same thing at the same time.

"We heard it from different places, believe it or not," said Kypreos. "When (MacLean) said it I had not talked to him about it and he heard what I heard. We both just heard it from completely different places. This did not come from the same source."

http://www.winnipegsun.com/sports/hockey/2011/04/13/17981056.html

GHOST
 
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MAROONSRoad

f/k/a Ghost
Feb 24, 2007
4,067
0
Maroons Rd.
Damien Cox, Toronto Star:

The Desert Dogs, inconveniently, opened their post-season in Detroit on Wednesday as a report from Sportsnet Radio The FAN 590 suggesting the plan to sell the team to a Chicago businessman isn’t going to fly sparked a cross-continental feeding frenzy...

Meanwhile, NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly did the best he could to douse speculation that the Coyotes could be on their way to Manitoba as soon as the team is eliminated from the post-season. Daly called The FAN’s report “inaccurate†and “untrue,†and said talks are continuing between Hulsizer and the City of Glendale.

Elsewhere, however, multiple reports indicated the plan for Glendale to sell $116 million worth of bonds to help finance Hulsizer’s $170 million purchase of the team is no longer viable, primarily because of threats by the taxpayer watchdog group the Goldwater Institute to sue the city if it tries to close the deal.

Another report out of Winnipeg indicated Hulsizer has pulled all his concessions off the table and that True North Sports and Entertainment Ltd. will soon be invited to table an official offer to move the Coyotes back to Winnipeg.

...Sometime in the next 90 days Hulsizer will either buy the team or it will become the seventh Canadian club, an event that would vividly illustrate the remarkable turnaround in NHL economics over the past 15 years.

Then, Canadian teams struggled — and in two cases failed — to survive because of a Canadian dollar that hovered around 60 cents compared to the U.S. greenback; now the loonie trades above par, franchises may be heading back to Canada and league coffers are bulging six years after the damaging lockout largely because teams based on the Great White North are doing very well.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/hocke...-cox-possible-move-of-coyotes-steals-the-show

GHOST
 

Whileee

Registered User
May 29, 2010
46,061
33,043
Can we now put to rest the rather tired notion that all of the scuttlebutt about a return of the NHL to Winnipeg is a result of die-hard Winnipeg fans that populate discussion boards and "homer" media types in Winnipeg? This deluge of news about a potential relocation to Winnipeg has come from every corner of the media world, and particularly from Toronto. I doubt that they have been swayed or bamboozled by the Winnipeg contingents.
 

youvegotit*

Guest
Point being? Is it your money being flushed down the toilet? No? Then don't worry about it.

If the building is full (which it was in the AWA days), that's all that should matter to you. Let the owners worry about making the numbers work. There are plenty of teams that in the red, either by a little or a lot, but that doesn't automatically make them all failures.

Really how about some facts...

2000-01 Average attendance = 14224
2001-02 Average attendance = 13165
2002-03 Average attendance = 13229

link (http://espn.go.com/nhl/attendance/_/year/2002)

Glendale Arena opened midway through the 2003–04 season, on December 26, 2003

So I'm not a math major but in an arena (AWA) of 18000+ seats with an average attendance of approximately 13500 fans (from 01-03) somehow to my knowledge does not constitute a full building as you imply. Please enlighten us with your wisdom on how this is possible.
 

Buck Aki Berg

Done with this place
Sep 17, 2008
17,325
8
Ottawa, ON
Really how about some facts...

2000-01 Average attendance = 14224
2001-02 Average attendance = 13165
2002-03 Average attendance = 13229

link (http://espn.go.com/nhl/attendance/_/year/2002)

Glendale Arena opened midway through the 2003–04 season, on December 26, 2003

So I'm not a math major but in an arena (AWA) of 18000+ seats with an average attendance of approximately 13500 fans (from 01-03) somehow to my knowledge does not constitute a full building as you imply. Please enlighten us with your wisdom on how this is possible.

AWA held 16,210 for hockey, not 18,000+. Of that 16,210, three thousand seats had obstructed views, with one net completely out of view. Would you go to a game where you have to look at a teevee screen to see one of the nets? I sure as hell wouldn't. I guess that makes me a bad fan, just like all the people in Phoenix who wouldn't do that either.

Now I'm no math major, but it seems to me that the hockey capacity of AWA, minus the number of obstructed-view seats, is a smaller number than the attendance figures you quoted. That means that every seat with a full view of the ice was sold, plus a decent chunk of the obstructed-view seats.
 
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