Tennis: [Part 2] 2019 U.S. Open

[MiamiScreamingEagles]

The prior thread was locked (exceeded suggested max. 1,000 posts)

Part I -- Tennis: - US Open 2019

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[Hadoop]

We did it!!! 1000+ posts for a tennis tournament on a hockey forum. I guess that's what happens when we witness the birth of a superstar who in the process makes Canadian history!

 

[Maestro84]

We did it!!! 1000+ posts for a tennis tournament on a hockey forum. I guess that's what happens when we witness the birth of a superstar who in the process make Canadian history!

The only other event thread that eclipsed 1k was the 2019 Masters one which required Tiger Woods winning it to garner that many, so yeah special things need to continue happening for these threads to keep blossoming

 

[GQS]

We did it!!! 1000+ posts for a tennis tournament on a hockey forum. I guess that's what happens when we witness the birth of a superstar who in the process make Canadian history!

I would hold off on saying we're witnessing the birth of a superstar tennis player in Andreescu just yet. I mean she's played awesome this year and looked dominate in the US Open, but we've seen plenty of female players who've won a grandslam or two and then have dropped off severely since. I mean look at Halep and Muguruza. Both have won a couple of slams, but both have also had long stretches of being not so good and losing early in slams as well.

So while she's off to a great career start, lets wait and see how she does for the next year or two before declaring her a star player let alone a superstar. If Bianca can be even half as consistent as Serena has been over the course of her career and with how much she's won, then Andreescu will be a great player, but lets just wait and see and hope she can be that consistent.

 

[Hossa]

Stunning achievement by a remarkable talent.

To discostu's earlier comment, a year ago imagining a grand slam champion for Canada in 2019 would have been tough, and only Raonic would have been conceivable. Even with this, still impossible to imagine FAA or Shapo winning this year, especially Felix, although his remarkable ascent in 2019 shouldn't be entirely overshadowed either.

What I find most promising about Bianca is that for such a young player, she has completely answered any questions about her ability to perform int eh big moments. We have seen so many young players struggle to elevate their game in that manner, and that's truly what separates the absolute best.

It's not just her ability to hit big shots or compose herself, but the ability to adjust in-game, even if the consistency wavers, based upon what's working. Against Bencic, she didn't just wait until she got back into the zone, she identified that her slices weren't working well because Bencic moves better up and down than side to side, so she started playing the angles and adding top spin. I find that immensely impressive, and it works because of the range and depth of her abilities.

A remarkably exciting time for Canadian tennis, turning potential into success. Credit to Tennis Canada, and Sylvain Bruneau.

 

[JianYang]

I would hold off on saying we're witnessing the birth of a superstar tennis player in Andreescu just yet. I mean she's played awesome this year and looked dominate in the US Open, but we've seen plenty of female players who've won a grandslam or two and then have dropped off severely since. I mean look at Halep and Muguruza. Both have won a couple of slams, but both have also had long stretches of being not so good and losing early in slams as well.

So while she's off to a great career start, lets wait and see how she does for the next year or two before declaring her a star player let alone a superstar. If Bianca can be even half as consistent as Serena has been over the course of her career and with how much she's won, then Andreescu will be a great player, but lets just wait and see and hope she can be that consistent.

Yeah, I agree.

Tennis is just really fickle like that. Things change quickly in this sport, so i hate to look too far ahead.

Like I said earlier, let's see how her body holds up to the rigours of being a regular on the tour. If her body holds up, and she continues to be driven and motivated, then she probably has a few more slams waiting for her, but looking too far ahead is always dangerous in tennis.

 

[Hossa]

I would hold off on saying we're witnessing the birth of a superstar tennis player in Andreescu just yet. I mean she's played awesome this year and looked dominate in the US Open, but we've seen plenty of female players who've won a grandslam or two and then have dropped off severely since. I mean look at Halep and Muguruza. Both have won a couple of slams, but both have also had long stretches of being not so good and losing early in slams as well.

So while she's off to a great career start, lets wait and see how she does for the next year or two before declaring her a star player let alone a superstar. If Bianca can be even half as consistent as Serena has been over the course of her career and with how much she's won, then Andreescu will be a great player, but lets just wait and see and hope she can be that consistent.

Agreed on this. While Muguruza and Halep weren't quite as young, Kuznetsova is a worthwhile cautionary tale, as she was almost exactly the same age as Andreescu when she won her first major, also at the US Open. She had a very well rounded game and actually largely avoided injuries but certainly didn't have a superstar career, although she's been very successful. That consistency is key.

 

[Vasilevskiy]

Somebody said in the other thread if anybody still cares about the men's final... Well sure I do, go Rafa!

 

[Cloned]

Agreed on this. While Muguruza and Halep weren't quite as young, Kuznetsova is a worthwhile cautionary tale, as she was almost exactly the same age as Andreescu when she won her first major, also at the US Open. She had a very well rounded game and actually largely avoided injuries but certainly didn't have a superstar career, although she's been very successful. That consistency is key.

Kuznetsova didn't have the mental edge that Bianca seems to have.

At the moment Bianca has two major weaknesses: her serve, and her tendency to have wild swings of performance within a single match. The fact that she still finds ways to win despite those two issues is a good omen though, because if she fixes those two issues she'll basically be the next Serena.

I'm pretty sure the rest of the WTA is collectively groaning that she's here. They had to deal with 15+ years of Serena, and just as Serena is fading, they get another power hitting spin master. Most of the women on tour can't handle that type of game. Serena was kind of a pioneer in playing a true power game; Bianca looks like she's combined that with spin control which will make it pretty hard to beat her if she's healthy and consistent. If they want to beat her, they'll have to play more like her. Like I said earlier, sooner or later there is going to be a bit of revolution in the women's game in terms of how players are trained to hit the ball. It usually takes one or two trendsetters before the rest of the field starts to catch up.

 

[Tuggy]

Hoping Medvedev can pull it off tonight.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

The way I see the match between Andreescu and Williams is that Andreescu was making Williams fight for EVERY point. Even when Williams would serve wide or too deep on the first ball, Andreescu was returning those at her feet which must have been intimidating and likely what caused Williams to go for broke on the 2nd serve and made her double fault more than usual. She knew that putting the ball in play on the 2nd serve would not be enough against an amazing returner like Andreescu. Any long exchanges would almost invariably play in Andreescu's favor. I guess that's where being young pays off. Williams is at her best when she can pull off a point with as few racquet swings as possible. And Andreescu made her play a lot. Even when she retained her service, she had to fight for it. One time it took her 10 minutes to win her service game. Even if she won that point, that's just a loss for Williams because that can't be the way it all unfolds if she hoped to have a chance to win. I was expecting Andreescu to be craftier with drop shots, and lobs, and what not but instead she just matched Williams power for power. Andreescu's depth placement was top notch, few balls were short and possible to attack for Serena the way she likes it. As crazy as it sounds, Andreescu intimidated Williams with how she relentlessly kept coming at her. Which is usually what Williams does to her opponents.

For Williams to hope to win, she had to play air tight offensively with her service with 1-2 swings wins. And she had to be able to attack Andreescu's serve. But Andreescu served better than I've seen her serve in a while with timely aces and first balls.

Andreescu upped her game in that GS final. She had a small dip at 1-5, but I honestly wasn't too worried even when it got to 5-5. Still felt like she was not melting down. Still felt like she was in it. But yeah, throughout the US open it didn't feel like Andreescu was at her peak level. She played well, but not as good as she was playing in Indian Wells IMO. But in that final.... she was unassailable, a rock.

I know we all want to hold off on anointing the next one with what happened with Osaka, Ostapenko, Muguruza, etc. But none of these girls are the full package like Andreescu. One can say Osaka was, but the thing with Osaka is that she does not seem to have the mental edge nor the variety that Andreescu has. She has a better serve, and more power but that will only work when she peaks in all aspects of her play whereas Andreescu has so many weapons along with a willingness to switch things up, that she can adapt to any situation. She's the real deal folks.
A star is born.

I can't wait to see how she does on the asian swing and in the end of year tournament. What a dream year, winning what most people see as the 5th slam in IW, her hometown tournament in Toronto, then her first GS. From 150 to 5 in the rankings. I can't wait to see how she does with clay and grass. Doesn't feel like there's any reason for her not to excel on any surface either.

 

[Cloned]

The way I see the match between Andreescu and Williams is that Andreescu was making Williams fight for EVERY point. Even when Williams would serve wide or too deep on the first ball, Andreescu was returning those at her feet which must have been intimidating and likely what caused Williams to go for broke on the 2nd serve and made her double fault more than usual. She knew that putting the ball in play on the 2nd serve would not be enough against an amazing returner like Andreescu. Any long exchanges would almost invariably play in Andreescu's favor. I guess that's where being young pays off. Williams is at her best when she can pull off a point with as few racquet swings as possible. And Andreescu made her play a lot. Even when she retained her service, she had to fight for it. One time it took her 10 minutes to win her service game. Even if she won that point, that's just a loss for Williams because that can't be the way it all unfolds if she hoped to have a chance to win. I was expecting Andreescu to be craftier with drop shots, and lobs, and what not but instead she just matched Williams power for power. Andreescu's depth placement was top notch, few balls were short and possible to attack for Serena the way she likes it. As crazy as it sounds, Andreescu intimidated Williams with how she relentlessly kept coming at her. Which is usually what Williams does to her opponents.

For Williams to hope to win, she had to play air tight offensively with her service with 1-2 swings wins. And she had to be able to attack Andreescu's serve. But Andreescu served better than I've seen her serve in a while with timely aces and first balls.

Andreescu upped her game in that GS final. She had a small dip at 1-5, but I honestly wasn't too worried even when it got to 5-5. Still felt like she was not melting down. Still felt like she was in it. But yeah, throughout the US open it didn't feel like Andreescu was at her peak level. She played well, but not as good as she was playing in Indian Wells IMO. But in that final.... she was unassailable, a rock.

I know we all want to hold off on anointing the next one with what happened with Osaka, Ostapenko, Muguruza, etc. But none of these girls are the full package like Andreescu. One can say Osaka was, but the thing with Osaka is that she does not seem to have the mental edge nor the variety that Andreescu has. She has a better serve, and more power but that will only work when she peaks in all aspects of her play whereas Andreescu has so many weapons along with a willingness to switch things up, that she can adapt to any situation. She's the real deal folks.
A star is born.

I can't wait to see how she does on the asian swing and in the end of year tournament. What a dream year, winning what most people see as the 5th slam in IW, her hometown tournament in Toronto, then her first GS. I can't wait to see how she does with clay and grass. Doesn't feel like there's any reason for her not to excel on any surface either.

She tried a drop shot early, Serena crushed it and showed she had the speed to get to it, and Bianca realized it wouldn't work and went power for power instead.

 

[discostu]

Hoping Medvedev can pull it off tonight.

This match does seem anticlimactic after yesterday, but some important things on there line.

Medvedev is just the fourth 90s born player to compete in a GS final (Thiem, Raonic and Nishikori ate the others). Nadal has looked good and had the easy draw, but, it's still a hard court match against a guy who does get worn down on the surface. Medvedev, it he plays disciplined, could be the guy that finally breaks through for this generation.

If Nadal wins, as he's likely favoured, it really bumps the odds towards him in the race for all time majors. A win also puts the number one ranking into play.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

She tried a drop shot early, Serena crushed it and showed she had the speed to get to it, and Bianca realized it wouldn't work and went power for power instead.

That's true. Goes to show Andreescu's in-game awareness. Her hockey sense is through the roof !

In all seriousness, that drop shot wasn't executed as well as it could have been. She could have gone for more but it would have needed to be executed a lot better.

Williams did say she took away her variety but still that wasn't enough.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

Isn't it interesting that the US open is basically a total repeat of Rogers cup finals wise ? Nadal VS Medvedev and Andreescu VS Williams. If Nadal wins it will have been a carbon copy.

 

[discostu]

I just realized that women's tennis now has a GS champion born in the 2000s, before men's tennis has one born in the 90s.

 

[YEM]

not to put a damper on yesterday's impressive victory, but Serena has just been frankly awful in her last two finals-Halep dismantled her in barely an hour and Serena's serve yesterday cost her the match.
anyway
I think Medvedev is going to give Rafa some trouble
of the big 3, I think Rafa is the best of them at in-match adjustments, and he'll need to be today
if Medvedev's serve is on, he'll have a chance. I'm a gambler and am taking him +7 games.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

not to put a damper on yesterday's impressive victory, but Serena has just been frankly awful in her last two finals-Halep dismantled her in barely an hour and Serena's serve yesterday cost her the match.
anyway
I think Medvedev is going to give Rafa some trouble
of the big 3, I think Rafa is the best of them at in-match adjustments, and he'll need to be today
if Medvedev's serve is on, he'll have a chance. I'm a gambler and am taking him +7 games.

But doesn't Andreescu deserve some credit for Serena's service game not being as good as usual ?

Right from the get go Andreescu punished Serena's serve with really strong returns and kept it up all game. She broke Serena 6 times in that match which is twice as many times as she had been broken for the rest of the tournament (3 times total for all her other matches combined). Andreescu's deep returns and good placement have something to do with it. It forced Williams to push for more on every serve.

It just seems that everyone looks bad against Andreescu... and I don't think it's a coincidence. She's going to give the tour fits for a while. The rest of the tour is going to have to adapt to her.

 

[YEM]

But doesn't Andreescu deserve some credit for Serena's service game not being as good as usual ?

some but not that much, really
serena had 8 doubles and a 44% first serve percentage
Bianca's 3 previous opponents in this tourny all had 4 or less doubles and over a 60% first serve percentage so it's not like she's doing something drastically different that's causing everyone to have serve troubles against her. Serena was just uncharacteristically bad with her serves yesterday.

 

[MXD]

some but not that much, really
serena had 8 doubles and a 44% first serve percentage
Bianca's 3 previous opponents in this tourny all had 4 or less doubles and over a 60% first serve percentage so it's not like she's doing something drastically different that's causing everyone to have serve troubles against her. Serena was just uncharacteristically bad with her serves yesterday.

Serena's game is much more built around her serve than any of Andreescu's prior opponent though. And at this point in her career, she absolutely needs her serve to give her an edge.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

some but not that much, really
serena had 8 doubles and a 44% first serve percentage
Bianca's 3 previous opponents in this tourny all had 4 or less doubles and over a 60% first serve percentage so it's not like she's doing something drastically different that's causing everyone to have serve troubles against her. Serena was just uncharacteristically bad with her serves yesterday.

The DF I'm convinced are because Andreescu was returning so well. Williams was losing the long exchanges too so she basically had to have a good first serve to hope to win points quickly on her own serve. Any time she'd only put the ball in play with a 80-90 mph second serve (a decent 2nd serve by any standards), she'd get punished and have to play an extended rally which tired her more, and only played into Andreescu's hands. Williams preferred to DF than lose long rallies. Just putting the ball in play would not have helped Williams yesterday IMHO.

The comparison with other players does not mean much because 1) Andreescu's level was so much better in the finals than any other match in the tournament 2) Her other opponents weren't as hopeless as Williams in long rallies because they could move whereas Williams is basically a cruise liner at this point in her career and can't move to save her life. So her other opponents could potentially win points by putting the ball in play on a 2nd serve. Serena less so.

Serena's game is much more built around her serve than any of Andreescu's prior opponent though. And at this point in her career, she absolutely needs her serve to give her an edge.

Exactly !

 

[MXD]

I just realized that women's tennis now has a GS champion born in the 2000s, before men's tennis has one born in the 90s.

...That's a stat!
(I had thought Cilic was born in the early 90ies).

 

[YEM]

The comparison with other players does not mean much because 1) Andreescu's level was so much better in the finals than any other match in the tournament 2) Her other opponents weren't as hopeless as Williams in long rallies because they could move whereas Williams is basically a cruise liner at this point in her career and can't move to save her life.

respectfully disagree
the numbers show that there's nothing Bianca does in particular that forces a lower 1st serve % or a higher # of doubles. Saying that Serena had an off day serving doesn't diminish the win in any way. I don't in any way buy yr point that Serena would rather double than face a long rally, that doesn't make much sense at all.

 

[MsMeow]

some but not that much, really
serena had 8 doubles and a 44% first serve percentage
Bianca's 3 previous opponents in this tourny all had 4 or less doubles and over a 60% first serve percentage so it's not like she's doing something drastically different that's causing everyone to have serve troubles against her. Serena was just uncharacteristically bad with her serves yesterday.

If your opponent is returning well you'd better believe it will affect your serve. I'm just re-watching the beginning of the match and you could see how tense Williams was in the warmup and in the first game. That certainly didn't help her and Bianca's returns on points at 15-40 put more pressure on her.

 

[tony d]

Congrats to Bianca on her win. I've been watching tennis for years, really awesome to see a Canadian win a major.