Parise/Zajack Vs. Carter/Richards...

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Jaysfanatic*

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I hate seeing these threads really, because no one can gauge who will be better than the other.....hell, for all we know, our 8th rounder could end up being a better NHLer than Carter, not to say that's going to happen, as I think Carter is a special player, but injuries, and other factors do not allow us to see what will happen in the future. Im happy with Parise and Zajac, and I wouldn't trade them, as Im sure the Flyers feel the same way about their duo, all we can agree on is how great it's going to be to watch these four become bitter rivals, and keep the Flyers-Devils rivalry going!
 

ahmon

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personally i like all 4 prospect.. but offensively i see the new jersey duo outscoring the philly duo in the long run..
 

Rabid Ranger

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I think Jeff Carter and Mike Richards hold more value in the eyes of the NHL community, as they are a more "known" quantity and have a more easily recognizable (especially Carter) NHL style game. Both are probably among the safest prospects to do well at the NHL level. Parise is viewed as undersized, and Zajac is just beginning to make his mark in the NCAA. I think all four will have nice careers, but I have to admit the Philly duo has a better chance of succeeding. The gap isn't as much as some are making it though.
 

salzy

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bruins4777 said:
funny how jason is the only one saying its really close
Meh, cut him some slack - everyone likes their own prospects. Heck, some even think Kyle Wellwood will be an NHL regular some day. :shakehead
 

BuppY

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zeker said:
Rick Nash put up more impressive numbers as a 17 year old than Carter did as a 19 year old.



Right now I'd have to say it's more likely that Carter=Linden.

Dude I live in Toronto. I've watched Mats play almost every game and only person I think that reminds me of Mats is Jeff Carter watch them play you'll see what im talking about. Similar size, both have similar skating style, both protect the puck really well. When I see Carter I see Mats in him and a lot of other Leaf fans feel the same way.
 

BuppY

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salzy said:
Meh, cut him some slack - everyone likes their own prospects. Heck, some even think Kyle Wellwood will be an NHL regular some day. :shakehead

what makes you think Wellwood won't make it? He has improved his game a lot since he was drafted and keeps on improving and I don't know if he will but The Leafs management has said they'll give him every oppurtunity to make the parent club. they are high on him.
 

DARKSIDE

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MrRuin said:
this thread isnt complete without an honorable mention of Thomas Vanek.

Please continue.

This thread has to do more with these specific prospects and the hope of keeping the Devil/Flyer rivalry going strong.
 

Jaysfanatic*

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DARKSIDE said:
This thread has to do more with these specific prospects and the hope of keeping the Devil/Flyer rivalry going strong.

That rivalry will go strong for MANY years, as long as they both stay competitive, now that the Rangers aren't competitive, Devils-Rangers battles don't have the same pizzazz they used to.
 

DARKSIDE

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I believe that Parise could be a Gomez type player with a little better scoring touch, better leadership qualities and is probably already better defensively...That wouldn't be to shabby. As for Zajac, I read, and I'm not sure where I read it, but the quote went something like he's a poor man's Jeff Carter. With all the Jeff Carter hype, I guess that's not bad either! Don't know all that much about Richards, except him being compared to Mike Ricci by the Flyer organization..
 

JimEIV

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I said it over on the Devils board, I'll say it here:

I don't know what how good of a pro Zajac will turn out to be, but he reminds me an awful lot of Kirk Muller.
 

Brock

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Asiaoil said:
One of the most level-headed 9th posts in living memory. Really - Carter may indeed turn into a player - but there is nothing in his junior performance that indicates he will be top line scoring center - nothing at all. Pretty much agree with the rest of it - but Richards was probably the best pick in that he has come the furthest and could potentially have 2nd line upside.

Really? Nothing at all?

Not leading his poor team to a OHL division title and 4th in the extremely tough Western Conference. Nor leading them with 74 points in 55 games. If Jeff Carter wasn't on that team, theyd be playing golf with Sarnia, Oshawa and Saginaw right now instead of being up 2-0 on Windsor in the playoffs right now.

Statistically, Carter's 1.35ppg were only behind 6 players this year. Three of those being London players (Perry, Hunter Schremp), two being Platters (Richardson and Ryan), and the other being the only other player in the OHL who means more to his team, Patrick O Sullivan.

Have you ever seen Carter play in the OHL?
 

zeker

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Watch him play a little more instead of simply looking at his OHL numbers. This is a kid that was the Phantoms best player last year in the AHL playoffs. A kid that is tied for the all-time lead in goals scored by a Canadian in the WJC. So what that he didn't put up 150 points in junior or even 100, he has no one to play with. People like him so much because he's 6-4, he's got great speed, and really good hands. He'll get stronger and at that point, he'll pretty much possess every attribute needed in a top line center. That doesn't necessarily mean he'll be a #1 center in the league, but I think he has a good chance to be.

That's all fair enough, but make no mistake - his numbers over the last two years have not improved, and have been a dissappointment. They are certainly not at the level of a future NHL 1st liner - and you can look up the stats on that if you want.


Charlie_Girl49 said:
Come again? Not to take anything away from Nash, but that was a stupid comment.

Nash
GP G A PTS +/- PPG
2001-2002 54 32 40 72 -16 1.33
2000-2001 58 31 35 66 -18 1.14


Carter
GP G A PTS +/- PPG
2004-2005 55 34 40 74 20 1.35
2003-2004 57 36 30 66 4 1.16
2002-2003 61 35 36 71 -5 1.16
2001-2002 63 18 17 35 1 0.56

?

So you just showed that Nash's numbers as a 17 year old are the same as Carter's as a 19 year old, and his numbers as a 16 year old are the same as Carter's as an 18 year old....so what was stupid about my comment?

or are you trying to argue that Carter is a better defensvie player than Nash? I won't argue that - and I'm also not going to use +/- numbers from junior to argue that.


BuppY said:
Dude I live in Toronto. I've watched Mats play almost every game and only person I think that reminds me of Mats is Jeff Carter watch them play you'll see what im talking about. Similar size, both have similar skating style, both protect the puck really well. When I see Carter I see Mats in him and a lot of other Leaf fans feel the same way.

I'm happy for you that you live in Toronto.

And I'd say Linden has a very similar style to Mats as well - just without the elite level skill. Which is how I view Carter. Yes he has a similar style of play as Mats - but he just doesn't have that extra offensive skill which makes an NHL star first liner.

Sundin is a very rare package - many players have part of that package, very few have that whole package.



Brock said:
Really? Nothing at all?

Not leading his poor team to a OHL division title and 4th in the extremely tough Western Conference. Nor leading them with 74 points in 55 games. If Jeff Carter wasn't on that team, theyd be playing golf with Sarnia, Oshawa and Saginaw right now instead of being up 2-0 on Windsor in the playoffs right now.

Statistically, Carter's 1.35ppg were only behind 6 players this year. Three of those being London players (Perry, Hunter Schremp), two being Platters (Richardson and Ryan), and the other being the only other player in the OHL who means more to his team, Patrick O Sullivan.

Have you ever seen Carter play in the OHL?

Let's be a little more specific with those stats.

1) C.Perry (19): 2.17ppg
2) P.O'Sullivan (19): 1.58ppg
3) D.Hunter (19): 1.55ppg
4) R.Schremp (18): 1.45ppg
5) B.Ryan (17): 1.44ppg
6) B.Richardson (19): 1.43ppg
7) J.Carter (19): 1.35ppg
8) R.Hisey (20): 1.30ppg
9) E.McGrath (18): 1.30ppg
10) D.Bolland (18): 1.29ppg
11) L.Reddux (18): 1.21ppg
11) D.Ryder (17): 1.21ppg
13) J.Mitchell (19): 1.19ppg
14) G.Platt (19): 1.16ppg
15) M.Rancourt (20): 1.16ppg


Now of course the guys on London and Owen Sound have a decided advantage, but Carter is far from the only one on that list who has a weak supporting cast, and an NHL body.

There's a good number of players here who were by far the top scorer on their team, without which the team wouldn't have made the playoffs.

In fact, in terms of situation, team quality, role on the team, and production over the past two years.....the player Carter looks most similar to is actually John Mitchell....who, while he's a decent prospect, projects to being a good 3rd line centre, with maybe some 2nd line potential.

Now I'll say that Carter is still a better prospect than Mitchell....but I'll also say carter is much, much closer to a Mitchell type prospect than he is to a perry type prospect.
 
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Asiaoil

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Brock said:
Really? Nothing at all?

Not leading his poor team to a OHL division title and 4th in the extremely tough Western Conference. Nor leading them with 74 points in 55 games. If Jeff Carter wasn't on that team, theyd be playing golf with Sarnia, Oshawa and Saginaw right now instead of being up 2-0 on Windsor in the playoffs right now.

Statistically, Carter's 1.35ppg were only behind 6 players this year. Three of those being London players (Perry, Hunter Schremp), two being Platters (Richardson and Ryan), and the other being the only other player in the OHL who means more to his team, Patrick O Sullivan.

Have you ever seen Carter play in the OHL?


People are saying Carter is a shoo-in to be an elite first line scoring center - and there is little evidence of that in his junior performace. His 1.35 ppg is just adequate for a big 19 year old center playing against 16-19 year olds - but he is not dominating against his age group peers. So what makes you think he is going to suddenly turn scorer against the NHL forwards, dmen and goalies except your opinion?

I'm not saying he won't be a player - just that his existing record does not give you much evidence of an all-star future. Even a decent player like Trevor Linden had a 100+ point season as a 17 year old. Linden is a decent comparable for Carter - but frankly Linden showed more dominance against his age group peers - and Carter just hasn't done that.

Like I said before - big numbers certainly do not assure you of an all-star NHL career - but not having big numbers in junior against your age group peers is not a good sign for a guy who is touted as surefire top line scoring material. Gezlaf is in the same boat IMHO - another guy who has really not stepped it up as a 19 year old.
 
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MojoJojo

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Jason MacIsaac said:
Or if you match them the way they should be:

Parise > Richards
Carter >>>>> Zajac

How about Carter>>Zajac
Richards = Parise

Captain of Canadas Gold medal WJH team vs the captain of the US' Gold medal WJH team. IMO, this is a much better comparison, rather than trying to compare Zajac to Richards and Carter to Parise because of draft order.
 

Jason MacIsaac

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MojoJojo said:
How about Carter>>Zajac
Richards = Parise

Captain of Canadas Gold medal WJH team vs the captain of the US' Gold medal WJH team. IMO, this is a much better comparison, rather than trying to compare Zajac to Richards and Carter to Parise because of draft order.
I agree that is the way it should be compared but there is a difference of opinion right now on Parise vs Richards. I feel Parise gets the edge because of what he has allready proved at the college, wjc and pro level. Richards has only proved at the CHL and WJC (let down the second year). For that reason I place Parise higher.

Zajac and Carter is a comparison I made early in the season. Alot of people say Zajac didn't make Team Canada so he clearly can't be near as good as Carter. Thats where they are gone wrong. Zajac should have been the 4th line center without a doubt in my mind. People didn't respect his defensive skills, offense, strength and faceoff awareness at the time, that actually made him a better player being left off the team. I guess it is hard to judge now since they won gold.
 

FlyersFan10*

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How about this for a novel idea? How about we all agree that the Flyers and Devils have two really great prospects waiting in the wings. How about we all agree that both sets of prospects are going to play major roles for both teams. How about we all agree that as Flyers fans and Devils fans, we're gonna have some wonderful hockey games to watch when these sets of prospects hit their primes. How about we also agree that because they play in different systems, each prospect is going to have a different impact in the way their game will be played.
 

Jason MacIsaac

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MrMastodonFarm said:
No, it really isn't.

The Flyer duo without a doubt.
How is that so? Both Parise and Zajac are playing in far stronger compitition putting up extremely respectable numbers where Carter and Richards are playing against boys and not dominating to the extent many thought they would.

When you say Carter led his team in points at the age of 20. Zajac lead one of the top teams in the strongest conference in goals with 17 at the age of 19 nd is 3rd in points ahead of WJC star Drew Stafford. Richards didn't lead his team in scoring this year while Parise in the AHL is one point back of proven NHL'er Dean McAmmond in Albany scoring in 3 less games.

Like I said, at this point I would take the Philly prospects but Zajac is the decideing player and my whole opinion may change by the end of the Frozen Four.
 

CharlieGirl

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FlyersFan10 said:
How about this for a novel idea? How about we all agree that the Flyers and Devils have two really great prospects waiting in the wings. How about we all agree that both sets of prospects are going to play major roles for both teams. How about we all agree that as Flyers fans and Devils fans, we're gonna have some wonderful hockey games to watch when these sets of prospects hit their primes. How about we also agree that because they play in different systems, each prospect is going to have a different impact in the way their game will be played.
Hallelujah!!!!!!!!! The future looks awfully good for both, and the rivalry will continue to be awesome!
 

Jason MacIsaac

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FlyersFan10 said:
How about this for a novel idea? How about we all agree that the Flyers and Devils have two really great prospects waiting in the wings. How about we all agree that both sets of prospects are going to play major roles for both teams. How about we all agree that as Flyers fans and Devils fans, we're gonna have some wonderful hockey games to watch when these sets of prospects hit their primes. How about we also agree that because they play in different systems, each prospect is going to have a different impact in the way their game will be played.
I do agree....I just don't like the many fans who say the Philly pair is way better then the Devils pair. I actually think both sides are being shortsided in this thread. Carter is my favorite prospect in the world. I said in January he will be a better NHL'er then Malkin and took major heat for saying so.
 

Le Golie

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As a neutral fan I would pick the Flyer pair well ahead of the Devil pair.

Richards doesn't have the upside Parise has, but he's safer and he's the kind of guy who's going to win Stanley Cups instead of Harts. At the same time, Parise excited me a lot more - he's just not a sure thing.

And I really like Zajac, he's a good guy and a good player. I've seen him, played against him and followed him for some time - but he's not the player or the prospect Jeff Carter is. As a Winnipegger I'll always be cheering for Zajac but to suggest he was undoubtedly better suited to Canada's fourth line than the guys who made them team is puzzling. He even get an invite to camp and I don't dissagree with that decision at all.
 

Jason MacIsaac

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Le Golie said:
As a neutral fan I would pick the Flyer pair well ahead of the Devil pair.

Richards doesn't have the upside Parise has, but he's safer and he's the kind of guy who's going to win Stanley Cups instead of Harts. At the same time, Parise excited me a lot more - he's just not a sure thing.

And I really like Zajac, he's a good guy and a good player. I've seen him, played against him and followed him for some time - but he's not the player or the prospect Jeff Carter is. As a Winnipegger I'll always be cheering for Zajac but to suggest he was undoubtedly better suited to Canada's fourth line than the guys who made them team is puzzling. He even get an invite to camp and I don't dissagree with that decision at all.
He got a summer invite and from what I heard from Calgary people Zajac was impressive. He has also improved leaps and bounds since the start of the season.
 
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