Parise or Vanek?

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MLH

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sabrefan27 said:
Vanek with a big goal to tie the game in the 3rd.

Don Stevens says it was a "major league goal".

Scored in the shootout too though the Amerks lost. Is it just me or does he seem to score in every shootout?
 

sabrefan27

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Mar 9, 2004
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Here's the deal. The bottom line is this argument is simple. If you disagree with me, you're wrong.

Parise, to me, is a lock to be a good NHLer for a very long time. No doubt he will be a leader and an all around great player. He's just that type of player and has that attitude.

Vanek on the other hand is a little different. He isn't a lock to be successful, but he's certainly close to it. Vanek will never be a good defensive player and will probably not be the leader and all around player like Parise. However, offensively he has more potnetial. I've watched him many times this season, and this guy has an unbelievable touch around the net. He just knows what to do with it when he's there. Not to mention a great shot and great size. He scores big goals and is a force out on the power play.

What an earlier poster said is absolutely right. It all comes down to what you need. Buffalo lacks a true offensive sniper like Vanek could be, and he looks to be that guy. I don't know what NJ needs, but you can't possibly go wrong with Parise. Overall, I'd take Vanek. He has more potential and has a very good chance to turn out as a major goal scoring threat, which I feel he will be.
 

Vlad The Impaler

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Feb 27, 2002
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JasonMacIsaac said:
Zach Parise - 20 games, 5 goals, 14 assists, 19 points
Thomas Vanek - 20 games, 9 goals, 5 assists, 14 points

nener nener neeener ;) What one game can do for PPG stats. I should keep my mouth closes Vanek will probably get 6 points tonight.

Exactly. This is why the "any question?" crack was so dumb. Parise had 4 assists tonight and jumps from 15 to 19 points. Earlier, Vanek went from an almost non-existent offense to catching up Parise. It's way too early.

Over an 82 game season, Parise was on track for a 61-62 point season. After this game, he is now on track for a 74 point season. In just one game, the projection has totally changed. Not only are stats a simple tool one should use to complement an analysis, but the sample this dude used at the time was way too small.

It's probably going to change and they will pass each others in scoring for a while. Then after maybe 40 games, we should start seeing a clear trend statistically. Although there's always the possibility of red hot streaks or ice cold slumps.
 

I.am.ca

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Vlad The Impaler said:
Exactly. This is why the "any question?" crack was so dumb. Parise had 4 assists tonight and jumps from 15 to 19 points. Earlier, Vanek went from an almost non-existent offense to catching up Parise. It's way too early.

Over an 82 game season, Parise was on track for a 61-62 point season. After this game, he is now on track for a 74 point season. In just one game, the projection has totally changed. Not only are stats a simple tool one should use to complement an analysis, but the sample this dude used at the time was way too small.

It's probably going to change and they will pass each others in scoring for a while. Then after maybe 40 games, we should start seeing a clear trend statistically. Although there's always the possibility of red hot streaks or ice cold slumps.


Thats why i would rather go by seasons not games to base an analysis on players, in one season a guy can play on a line and just catch fire and his stats will unreal but the next season you take him away from one of the players and his stats dip and you scratch your head wondering what the hell happened. I usually wait 2 seasons at least then start to build up an analysis.
 

I.am.ca

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Kris Baker said:
Devil's Advocate (no pun intended):
Could you say the same for Vanek if he were Devs property?


I might be wrong but Buffalo doesn't seem to do too well with their prospects, i mean other than Biron and Kalinin, guys like Afinogenov are not playing to their potential. Devils have a pretty good system and they seem to do very well with bright prospects like Gomez, Elias, Martin, Niedermayer, Brodeur, Rafalski, Brylin, Gionta, from stars to solid players. Doesn't hurt to know who runs the team from GM to Coach either, i just think Parise would be nursed into the team the proper way out of the 2 prospects.
 

DownFromNJ

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Mar 7, 2004
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I might be wrong but Buffalo doesn't seem to do too well with their prospects, i mean other than Biron and Kalinin, guys like Afinogenov are not playing to their potential. Devils have a pretty good system and they seem to do very well with bright prospects like Gomez, Elias, Martin, Niedermayer, Brodeur, Rafalski, Brylin, Gionta, from stars to solid players. Doesn't hurt to know who runs the team from GM to Coach either, i just think Parise would be nursed into the team the proper way out of the 2 prospects.

The Devils organization is definately one huge equalizing factor. I mean, look at our coaching staff from the minors on up. Larry Robinson actually said that the Devils organization was by far the best than any he had been a part of throughout his hockey career.
 

Paxon

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I.am.ca said:
I might be wrong but Buffalo doesn't seem to do too well with their prospects, i mean other than Biron and Kalinin, guys like Afinogenov are not playing to their potential. Devils have a pretty good system and they seem to do very well with bright prospects like Gomez, Elias, Martin, Niedermayer, Brodeur, Rafalski, Brylin, Gionta, from stars to solid players. Doesn't hurt to know who runs the team from GM to Coach either, i just think Parise would be nursed into the team the proper way out of the 2 prospects.

You've got a big point there. Chances are if there were a season Vanek might have even been rushed into the NHL, which would have been very bad for him. The Devils are clearly the better organization, from coaching to scouting.

I still go with Vanek as the player I'd choose 5 years down the road. I like Parise a lot though; he's one of my favorite prospects of recent drafts.
 

Paxon

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JasonMacIsaac said:
Zach Parise - 20 games, 5 goals, 14 assists, 19 points
Thomas Vanek - 20 games, 9 goals, 5 assists, 14 points

nener nener neeener ;) What one game can do for PPG stats. I should keep my mouth closes Vanek will probably get 6 points tonight.

You seem to have been a couple games behind in the stats when you made that post. After last night:

Vanek: 23 games, 11 goals, 7 assists, 18 points, +1, 18 PIM
Parise: 21 games, 5 goals, 14 assists, 19 points, -4, 14 PIM
 

Jason MacIsaac

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Rob Paxon said:
You seem to have been a couple games behind in the stats when you made that post. After last night:

Vanek: 23 games, 11 goals, 7 assists, 18 points, +1, 18 PIM
Parise: 21 games, 5 goals, 14 assists, 19 points, -4, 14 PIM
No...thats what theahl stats were right after the albany game. Rochester was still in the first period though.
 

Paxon

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JasonMacIsaac said:
No...thats what theahl stats were right after the albany game. Rochester was still in the first period though.

Well the post was from yesterday it says, and today Vanek has played in 23 games. Your post had him at 20.
 

MLH

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Rob Paxon said:
Well the post was from yesterday it says, and today Vanek has played in 23 games. Your post had him at 20.

Yeah, plus "right after the Albany game" would have Parise at 21 games.
 

Jason MacIsaac

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Rob Paxon said:
Well the post was from yesterday it says, and today Vanek has played in 23 games. Your post had him at 20.
The website is a little off then. It was messed up all day yesterday. When I went to scores it sent me to saturdays games.
 

MLH

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JasonMacIsaac said:
This proves you are blind. It clearly says Parise has 15 points in 19 games. Last nights game was 20 where he had 4 assists. That adds up to 19 points in 20 games.

What? You must have the website cached or something because it says this under Parise:

Pos: C
GP: 21
G: 5
A: 14
PTS: 19
+/-: -4
PIM: 14
PPG: 1
SHG: 0
GWG: 1
SHOTS: 59
PCT: .085

You might want to check your internet settings next time before you say someone is blind.
 

Missionhockey

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MLH said:
What? You must have the website cached or something because it says this under Parise:

Pos: C
GP: 21
G: 5
A: 14
PTS: 19
+/-: -4
PIM: 14
PPG: 1
SHG: 0
GWG: 1
SHOTS: 59
PCT: .085

You might want to check your internet settings next time before you say someone is blind.
Because theres no possibility that they simply didn't update the website :shakehead
 

MLH

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MissionHockey said:
Because theres no possibility that they simply didn't update the website :shakehead

Well, since he already said he's using the same website and he said the link I provided is "proof that I'm blind", I would say that it's his cache.

But thanks for your opinion.
 

Sammy*

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Flame_Star_Devil said:
Regardless, this argument is stupid. Parise does still have one more point in two less games.
And alot less goals & a worse +/-.

:deadhorse
 

MLH

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Flame_Star_Devil said:
Regardless, this argument is stupid. Parise does still have one more point in two less games.

Any questions?
 

Paxon

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Flame_Star_Devil said:
Regardless, this argument is stupid. Parise does still have one more point in two less games.

Indeed, I knew that when I posted the update. However, one could find either player's stats better. On one hand Vanek has considerably more goals; on the other hand they were mostly on the powerplay. Some may consider that good and some may not. Some may find assists more impressive if in the right amount. This is a subjective matter of course, like the entire thread.

As far as what I'm looking for in a future Sabre, I like the goals he is getting. We have lots of speedy guys who are very good playmakers, but not many very good goal scorers. We could use a great goal scorer which Vanek could become.

As far as I can see, Vanek will always score a lot more goals while Parise will get more assists. Total points can go either way, but of course it is easier to get more points when you're a playmaker rather than a sniper, so I'd go with Parise getting more points -- assuming both players pan out and get top 6 minutes/PP time.

I still think Vanek will be thought of as the better when it is all said and done. I like both players a lot and I think their careers will be fun to track and compare as time goes on; a Buffalo - NJ Conference Final in 4-5 years would be a treat.
 
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