Parise for Pouliot, Jacques

[JimEIV]

MrMastodonFarm,


I would like to apologize for being out of line.


I just get a little heated over NJ. It just seems when NJ is the topic there is a serious lack of respect. Just look at the some of the threads over the last couple of days. NJ builds a new Areana and we hear nothing but jokes, Zajac has a great freshman year and it was all Stafford, Parise excells at every single level and he to small to be an impact player. I truely believe if these guys were Toronto prospects they would be labled the second coming.


That is no excuse for lashing out, but I just want you know where I was coming from.

Again I apologize.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

Youre going to use 6 games to compare the 2? Id take Bergy in a second. He has laready proven he can play in the NHL. Has Parise? I dont care if he wasnt given the chance yet Bergeron is already a 50 point NHL player as an 18 year old.

Parise is the most overrated prospect on this board. Tied with Phaneuf. Will both be good NHLers? Yes. But not as good as everyones making them out to be.

Hardly, Bergeron got to play with Samsonov and Nylander for a good chunk of the year, Parise decided to get the 2nd year of his education instead. Parise has a much higher ceiling, will be more rounded and will have a better career then Bergeron who is stuck to fail in Boston.

 

[LaLaLaprise]

Hardly, Bergeron got to play with Samsonov and Nylander for a good chunk of the year, Parise decided to get the 2nd year of his education instead. Parise has a much higher ceiling, will be more rounded and will have a better career then Bergeron who is stuck to fail in Boston.

Doesnt matter who Bergeron played with. Its not like Parise will play with Rasmussen and Stevenson.

 

[Lowetide]

I don't know what else this boy has to do but to suggest he's ONLY going to be a 40-50 point scorer in the NHL because he's not tearing up the league to your satisfaction is selling the kid short(no pun intended).

Asiaoil said: I could go on and tell you how Parise's AHL numbers project to the NHL (about 40 points or so)


So that tells me Asiaoil projects Parise's season to be eqivalent to 40 NHL points as a 20 year old. How many points do you think he would have gotten as a 20 year old in the NHL?

 

[Lou is God]

Parise is the most overrated prospect on this board. Tied with Phaneuf. Will both be good NHLers? Yes. But not as good as everyones making them out to be.

Based on what??? For anybody to suggest that Parise is the most overrated prospect either doesn't understand a thing called intangibles or doesn't recognise it when they see it. If he gets 60-70 points a game and you add on to that his top intangibles which includes leadership, character and a will and determination to win and lead his team then he has fullfilled his potential and not one who deserves to be called most overrated.

Again what does this kid have to do to be recognised as a great prospect or better yet what has he done to be called most overrated prospect. Amazing.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

Doesnt matter who Bergeron played with. Its not like Parise will play with Rasmussen and Stevenson.

Well how can you take Bergeron when you haven't seen Parise play with Friesen and Langenbrunner who are similar linemates. Hell, with Murphy and Rheaume he has put up almost the same amount of points as Bergeron, this is also only Parise's first pro season.

 

[Lou is God]

Asiaoil said: I could go on and tell you how Parise's AHL numbers project to the NHL (about 40 points or so)


So that tells me Asiaoil projects Parise's season to be eqivalent to 40 NHL points as a 20 year old. How many points do you think he would have gotten as a 20 year old in the NHL?

Asiaoil also said: The kid will be an OK player - probably a solid second line 40-50 point type that you need to protect a bit or suffer the consequences defensively.

Sounds like he's projecting this 40-50 points over his career, not one season, read it again. If he just talking about his rookie NHL season I would most definetly agree with him, but I don't think he is.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

Asiaoil also said: The kid will be an OK player - probably a solid second line 40-50 point type that you need to protect a bit or suffer the consequences defensively.

Sounds like he's projecting this 40-50 points over his career, not one season, read it again. If he just talking about his rookie NHL season I would most definetly agree with him, but I don't think he is.

He also points out many times that Parise is weak defensivly...which means he has neen seen him play.

 

[Lowetide]

Sounds like he's projecting this 40-50 points over his career, not one season, read it again. If he just talking about his rookie NHL season I would most definetly agree with him, but I don't think he is.

I thought he was comparing him to Mike York.

I would like to know what you as a poster think his upside will be since I respect your opinion and enjoy your posts.

 

[Lou is God]

I thought he was comparing him to Mike York.

I would like to know what you as a poster think his upside will be since I respect your opinion and enjoy your posts.

Thanks for nice words.

Like I mentioned to La-La-Laprise I feel that Parise is one of those type of players that can't be valued alone on the stats brings to the table but the intangibles he brings, very much like York does but in a higher level.

He reminds me of another center probably before your time who has alot of what Parise will bring and that's Butch Goring who helped the Isles to four cups. Like I said probably before your time but everytime I see Parise play he reminds of Goring, same size, same style and almost the same type of character.

 

[Lowetide]

Thanks for nice words.

Like I mentioned to La-La-Laprise I feel that Parise is one of those type of players that can't be valued alone on the stats brings to the table but the intangibles he brings, very much like York does but in a higher level.

He reminds me of another center probably before your time who has alot of what Parise will bring and that's Butch Goring who helped the Isles to four cups. Like I said probably before your time but everytime I see Parise play he reminds of Goring, same size, same style and almost the same type of character.

I WISH Goring was before my time, lol. I'm so old I remember when he was with LA! Goring was a helluva player and if Parise is similar in style then NJD got a heckuva two way center. One of the overlooked keys to that nice run NYI went on was the Harris-Lewis/Goring deal with the Kings.

 

[Lou is God]

I WISH Goring was before my time, lol. I'm so old I remember when he was with LA! Goring was a helluva player and if Parise is similar in style then NJD got a heckuva two way center. One of the overlooked keys to that nice run NYI went on was the Harris-Lewis/Goring deal with the Kings.

That was the deal IMO that pushed the Islanders into dynasty mode, before that they were always close but could never get over that hump and Goring turned into the perfect player that they needed. When I was kid I was an Islander fan and he was always one of my favorite players, still is.

And damn dude, you might be older than me! Doesn't it suck?

 

[LaLaLaprise]

Based on what??? For anybody to suggest that Parise is the most overrated prospect either doesn't understand a thing called intangibles or doesn't recognise it when they see it. If he gets 60-70 points a game and you add on to that his top intangibles which includes leadership, character and a will and determination to win and lead his team then he has fullfilled his potential and not one who deserves to be called most overrated.

Again what does this kid have to do to be recognised as a great prospect or better yet what has he done to be called most overrated prospect. Amazing.

First off before you get your panties in a bunch because I didnt bow to the great Talent Parise is, I will say 1 thing. Parise is a very good hockey player.

Is he as good as all the NJ fans talking about him like he will be the next best thing since sliced bread? Nope.

This is my opinion. Parise = Overrated. However, Overrated doesnt = he sucks. You can be overrated and a good hockey player. I just dont think Parise is as good as everyone is drooling about. Same goes for Phaneuf.

And last thing, Parise IS a great prospect but just because I called him overrated it doesnt mean he sucks. Calm down.

 

[LaLaLaprise]

Well how can you take Bergeron when you haven't seen Parise play with Friesen and Langenbrunner who are similar linemates. Hell, with Murphy and Rheaume he has put up almost the same amount of points as Bergeron, this is also only Parise's first pro season.

How can you take him WITHOUT seeing them? See it works both ways. Ill take the sure thing.

 

[Lou is God]

First off before you get your panties in a bunch because I didnt bow to the great Talent Parise is, I will say 1 thing. Parise is a very good hockey player.

Is he as good as all the NJ fans talking about him like he will be the next best thing since sliced bread? Nope.

This is my opinion. Parise = Overrated. However, Overrated doesnt = he sucks. You can be overrated and a good hockey player. I just dont think Parise is as good as everyone is drooling about. Same goes for Phaneuf.

And last thing, Parise IS a great prospect but just because I called him overrated it doesnt mean he sucks. Calm down.

First off don't tell me to calm down, this is hockey we are talking about and I'm going to be as passionate as I wish about it. Second it's obvious you are not talking account the intanagibles that I talked about and you are ignoring and just basing your opinion on size and stats, is it not concievable that certain prospects can also be judged on by something besides that? This kid has got the heart of a lion, he wants the pressure of the big games on him and he has shown that, this is what you win Stanley Cups on, character like this and a reason why on draft day Lou and David Conte were smiling on stage when they called his name with smiles on their faces like a cat that swallowed the canary.

I have already called him a 60-70 pt man in the NHL, if I was worshipping him don't you think I would do a little better than that? I just know when I see the complete package and while we won't dazzle you with his stats he will win games for you on something besides numbers alone. His good stats? They are just gravy.

 

[LaLaLaprise]

First off don't tell me to calm down, this is hockey we are talking about and I'm going to be as passionate as I wish about it. Second it's obvious you are not talking account the intanagibles that I talked about and you are ignoring and just basing your opinion on size and stats, is it not concievable that certain prospects can also be judged on by something besides that? This kid has got the heart of a lion, he wants the pressure of the big games on him and he has shown that, this is what you win Stanley Cups on, character like this and a reason why on draft day Lou and David Conte were smiling on stage when they called his name with smiles on their faces like a cat that swallowed the canary.

I have already called him a 60-70 pt man in the NHL, if I was worshipping him don't you think I would do a little better than that? I just know when I see the complete package and while we won't dazzle you with his stats he will win games for you on something besides numbers alone. His good stats? They are just gravy.

So because someone doesnt agree with you that Parise is as good as you say than I guess he is dumb...is that what you are saying?? I have taken intangibles into account. I have watched Parise way before he was drafted by the devils. He isnt worth the hype. He is a 60 point NHLer...when people talk about Parise they overhype the kid.

 

[Lou is God]

So because someone doesnt agree with you that Parise is as good as you say than I guess he is dumb...is that what you are saying?? I have taken intangibles into account. I have watched Parise way before he was drafted by the devils. He isnt worth the hype. He is a 60 point NHLer...when people talk about Parise they overhype the kid.

Dumb?? When did I say that?

 

[LaLaLaprise]

Dumb?? When did I say that?

You basically said the reason i didnt agree with you was because I was looking at stats and size. You assumed I didnt know what i was talking about because I didnt agree with you.

"Second it's obvious you are not talking account the intanagibles that I talked about and you are ignoring and just basing your opinion on size and stats, is it not concievable that certain prospects can also be judged on by something besides that?"

 

[Lou is God]

You basically said the reason i didnt agree with you was because I was looking at stats and size. You assumed I didnt know what i was talking about because I didnt agree with you.

"Second it's obvious you are not talking account the intanagibles that I talked about and you are ignoring and just basing your opinion on size and stats, is it not concievable that certain prospects can also be judged on by something besides that?"

But that's all you talked about (size and stats), any scounting report on Parise always talks about his character but you ignored it even after I mentioned it you. So of course I'm going to assume your not taking into account the intangibles that Parise brings to the table. But I still fail to see how this is calling you dumb.

 

[Crosbyfan]

Bergeron is better? Parise did the same thing Bergeron did a year earlier as the underdog at the WJC without Crosby on his line. Parise had Murray and Werner lol

Parise doesn't have the pro experience that Begeron has, plays on a weaker team with weaker players and still puts up around the same ppg that Bergeron put up.

Bergeron is a safe bet to be a good 2nd liner, with the right linemates a first line center like Richards. Parise has a good chance to be a #1 center and with the right linemates and allstar. If Parise plays with Elias his first year he will probably win ROTY.

Bergeron is better and a year younger. Parise did the same thing as Bergeron a year earlier (MVP) at a weaker WJC's which Bergeron could not compete in because he was the youngest rookie in the NHL, taking a regular shift, and too important to Boston to be released.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Bergeron is better and a year younger. Parise did the same thing as Bergeron a year earlier (MVP) at a weaker WJC's which Bergeron could not compete in because he was the youngest rookie in the NHL, taking a regular shift, and too important to Boston to be released.

I don't see how any of this proves that Bergeron is better than Parise. Until Parise plays in the NHL, that can't be answered for sure.

 

[Lou is God]

I don't see how any of this proves that Bergeron is better than Parise. Until Parise plays in the NHL, that can't be answered for sure.

I agree man, WAY too early to say who's going to be better.

 

[LaLaLaprise]

But that's all you talked about (size and stats), any scounting report on Parise always talks about his character but you ignored it even after I mentioned it you. So of course I'm going to assume your not taking into account the intangibles that Parise brings to the table. But I still fail to see how this is calling you dumb.

I never talked about either. Look back at my posts. I just gave my general opinion between Bergeron and Parise.

 

[Lou is God]

I never talked about either. Look back at my posts. I just gave my general opinion between Bergeron and Parise.

Your right, you did, my bad.

 

[ZombieMatt]

I don't see how any of this proves that Bergeron is better than Parise. Until Parise plays in the NHL, that can't be answered for sure.

I agree it can't be proven, but some of the talk around Parise is about what he's done now and talking about how other prospects aren't comparable until they are successful in the AHL. So it only makes sense that Bergeron have the same advantage.

In reality, I think this is a pretty even swap (the initial conversation). Parise brings intangibles along with everything else, while JF Jacques brings a physical component that most prospects can't match.