Panzer, Sherman, Tiger, T-34, Abrams

[Dr Jan Itor]

His strength is fine. I'll trade a little bit of that for a some more skill.

 

[Aceofspades]

the only reason the wild turned into a playoff team was the decision to sign parise & suter for huge money. other than playoff hockey in a league where 50% of teams make the playoffs what have we won? any trophies?

It is also a league where every team can beat the other, playoffs is a good place to be.
But now a complete repuild is needed and after this season things need to happen fast, could be Guerin will start this season, I would not mind.

 

[Wabit]

the only reason the wild turned into a playoff team was the decision to sign parise & suter for huge money. other than playoff hockey in a league where 50% of teams make the playoffs what have we won? any trophies?

Dub made no difference in making the Playoffs.

The Nino/Haula/Pommer line carried the team after Yeo was fired.

So it's 1oa or a Cup, and anything else between is a failed season? I'll take the 70+ games a year of good hockey over watching AZ, FLA, BUF the last however many years. It's not like I'm getting a ring or a trophy if my teams wins a Championship, so I'm out nothing if the team flops in the Playoffs.

 

[Wabit]

Gotta hope Greenway continues to gain strength as he matures and develops into a force ala Big Buff. I remember reading that Buff played a passive game to start his career and his coaches were always pushing him to develop into the player he was as he got older. Worked out there!

Huge players tend to start off tentative in the league, most of them have been the biggest guy on the ice for years. They don't have to use their size to it's full potential, and are held back from doing so because they'll draw penalties or hurt people when they are HS/Jrs. Just think if Buff played the physical game at he does at 18/19 in the CHL. He'd could have killed some 16yo. Even good clean hits would look bad and he'd be living in the penalty box.

 

[P10p]

His strength is fine. I'll trade a little bit of that for a some more skill.

I agree his strength is great, but if you read what i'm saying and take the whole context of the post. You will understand it is more about hoping he develops in a similar way to Buff. Of course he is strong, but in a league of grown men it doesn't hurt that he can and will get stronger.

 

[DANOZ28]

i care about building a winner, i guess some posters only care about just making the playoffs. sometimes no pain no gain. cheers!

 

[Ban Hammered]

i care about building a winner, i guess some posters only care about just making the playoffs. sometimes no pain no gain. cheers!

One team wins a Cup each year. One.
If your barometer for success is Cup or bust...you aren't going to enjoy this game very much.
I guess Boston anf Vegas should feel great shame...

 

[Al Lagoon]

We’re in an okay place with some of the prospects we have. I’m sure BG will be better than Fenton but whether or not he can make this team competitive, only time will tell.


How long have you been following the team? Why are you talking about playoff runs in the same breath as Granlund, Nino, Coyle?

The only difference between Granlund, Nino, Coyle and Fiala, Donato, Rask is that, as of now, there’s no illusion that we’re going to be competitive. We know we won’t be. And who knows, maybe we get some better prospects out of it. The old trio was never going to take us on a playoff run.

Um, Coyle looked great in the playoffs last year, and Nino was instrumental in the Canes making some noise.

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

One team wins a Cup each year. One.
If your barometer for success is Cup or bust...you aren't going to enjoy this game very much.
I guess Boston anf Vegas should feel great shame...

My barometer for success is having a team that atleast fools me into believing we have a shot at the cup

 

[Wabit]

i care about building a winner, i guess some posters only care about just making the playoffs. sometimes no pain no gain. cheers!

They've had a winner the last 7 or so seasons. These were some really good hockey teams. Heck I still think if Harding's MS didn't flare up they had a real shot at the Cup in 13-14. Jake Allen turned into a brick wall in 16-17 or it could just have easily been MN as NSH playing PIT for the Cup.

 

[thestonedkoala]

If most estimated 20-25g from Coyle then that's a perfect example of over estimating prospects. He was a late 1st. He didn't show much goal scoring ability in college or light up the AHL. He's a middle-6 FWD, and that's a win for a 28oa pick.

He didn't spend a ton of time in the AHL. He was prototypical power forward. Big guy that can crash and score. Again, who cares where he was picked? Some players develop a little longer than others. He was a good prospect that had vibes of Dustin Brown in him. We didn't overestimate him, he just never developed for whatever reason.

Granny is a 60-70p playmaking 1st line wing. Not sure what more you want, unless you think he should PPG center.

First off, yes he should have been a center. Secondly, you know, maybe a consistent 25-30 goal scorer given how talented he was. Bouchard was a 70 point player, but we saw how that turned out? Granlund was to solve our center problems, but didn't.

I'm not sure how the Wild didn't develop Tuch. He was in the AHL here then went to the NHL for Vegas.

He had one season in the AHL, where he looked okay to good. I mean that's like saying the Islanders developed el Nino or Boston developed Donato.

Haula was given good linemates and played himself out of the lineup here. His play was why MN went and got Hanzel. It's also the reason they burned a year of JEE's ELC.

Haula's TOI here? was between 10 to 13 minutes and he still did well; 15 goals in his last season. It's like you know maybe giving him top minutes instead of bottom 6 minutes would have been better? Minnesota doesn't know how to manage their players or their roster, and don't know how to develop.

These are 17-18 kids when they are drafted, it is a lot of guess work. After they are drafted if a team can get a NHL player out of anything after a 20th pick. I agree with BB's line of thinking that about 300 NHL games mark is when you'll see what kind of player a kid turns out to be.

Except it's not a lot of guess work, that's why good teams stay good. They know how to develop talent, trade right and utilize what they have. Minnesota has messed up a lot and until Guerin glasses the entire organization and brings in new people, it won't get any better.

 

[SupremeNachos]

My take on him also, the potential just makes you drool.

Let's just hope he doesn't follow Coyle's path and become a passive nice guy. Imagine if Coyle embraced his inner dick and we had him and Greenway rag dolling guys out there. I guess that's what NHL 19 is for

 

[Wabit]

He didn't spend a ton of time in the AHL. He was prototypical power forward. Big guy that can crash and score. Again, who cares where he was picked? Some players develop a little longer than others. He was a good prospect that had vibes of Dustin Brown in him. We didn't overestimate him, he just never developed for whatever reason.



First off, yes he should have been a center. Secondly, you know, maybe a consistent 25-30 goal scorer given how talented he was. Bouchard was a 70 point player, but we saw how that turned out? Granlund was to solve our center problems, but didn't.



He had one season in the AHL, where he looked okay to good. I mean that's like saying the Islanders developed el Nino or Boston developed Donato.



Haula's TOI here? was between 10 to 13 minutes and he still did well; 15 goals in his last season. It's like you know maybe giving him top minutes instead of bottom 6 minutes would have been better? Minnesota doesn't know how to manage their players or their roster, and don't know how to develop.



Except it's not a lot of guess work, that's why good teams stay good. They know how to develop talent, trade right and utilize what they have. Minnesota has messed up a lot and until Guerin glasses the entire organization and brings in new people, it won't get any better.

You don't care where Tuch was picked yet you do where JEE was? He spent his first pro year in Iowa, yet that means nothing for his development? Yet you complain that the Wild can't develop players. So when do they develop them, CHL, College, overseas, the NHL?

Nino had a NHL and an AHL season before MN got him. When did he develop? Where is the cutoff for development; age, league level, or just whenever?

Granny was a wing they hoped could become a center. With any sort of decent center depth he never would have even been tried out there. Wing suits his skillset much more than center. The lack of other options made MN try to fit a square peg into a round hole. The last 2+ seasons here Granny was the 20+g/40a+ player that was envisioned when he came into the league.

Haula's ToI his last year here was fine. He was the weak link in the 3rd line, he played his way out of the lineup. So he had 14g at even strength, 10 FWDs that year had 13g+ at even strength. He wasn't better than Staal, and for a long stretch that season the Zucker/Koivu/Granny line was one of the top lines in NHL. I liked Haula, but he wasn't better than anyone ahead of him in the lineup.

The draft is a ton of guessing, even the teams that are good at it get maybe 2 players on average a season from the draft. If it wasn't there wouldn't be nay 1st round busts or 7th round successes. Those 7th rounders would have been picked a lot sooner if teams thought they were going to turn into top players. Even the teams that get lucky with them still have several misses with players picked ahead of them.

For all the draft picks that were traded away MN has a 1st rounded on their team from the 2011-2016. For all of Fenton's faults he did balance the team better for player's ages. If after Kunin's draft if you were told the Wild had Donato, JEE, Fiala, Greenway, Hartman, Kaprizov, and Kunin in their FWD prospect pool people would have been over the moon.

 

[DANOZ28]

wabit, in response to your last comment since you only care about winning did granlund ; nino & coyle produce more points than rask; donato & fiala yes or no? so building a team isn't important only winning every possible game no matter the cost? i disagree. i forgot to add to fletchers list of booboos by losing haula & tuch we lost 2 nhl players which tuch was a huge loss of a 1st & haula could easily be a #2 C

 

[Wabit]

wabit, in response to your last comment since you only care about winning did granlund ; nino & coyle produce more points than rask; donato & fiala yes or no? so building a team isn't important only winning every possible game no matter the cost? i disagree. i forgot to add to fletchers list of booboos by losing haula & tuch we lost 2 nhl players which tuch was a huge loss of a 1st & haula could easily be a #2 C

I said I want to watch good hockey. Watching bad hockey isn't something I'll do for very long. I turned off a lot of games last year and my interest isn't very high for this year's team.

Would you rather have lost Dumba to Vegas?

Granny and Coyle both would have been gone after this season. There isn't the cap to keep them. I also think the team is better off long for longer term after the trades.

The Coyle/Donato trade was good. Coyle was 10g/18a in 60 games and Donato was 4g/12a in 22 games last year for MN. So Donato getting 6g/6a in 38 more games isn't unreasonable. I really don't miss Coyle at all, he made me

The Granny/Fiala trade was light but not an awful trade. Granny had 1g/4a in NSH and Fiala had 3g/4a in MN after the trade. Even going back Granny's last 22 games in MN he had 3g/7a. Granny also had 1 goal in a 30 game stretch last year for MN. He was still getting his assists, but his game took a nosedive around Thanksgiving.

Nino for Rask was just bad.

For the most part I also don't care what a player does after he's traded away. None of Coyle, Granny, Haula, or Nino was actually playing well before they were traded. I'm also not a fan of mystery box draft picks that so many people seem to covet. I'd rater take a younger player that has shown he should be in the NHL over them most every time. You might get the next Pasta from them, but more likely you'll end up with a player that is 2-5 years away from even sniffing the NHL if he even gets that far.

I do think the first half of this season is going to be painful, but they kids will figure it out and start to come into their own in the 2nd half. Which will annoy the pro-tank fans because they want to lose games for a better draft pick.

 

[thestonedkoala]

You don't care where Tuch was picked yet you do where JEE was? He spent his first pro year in Iowa, yet that means nothing for his development? Yet you complain that the Wild can't develop players. So when do they develop them, CHL, College, overseas, the NHL?

Where did I say I cared where Tuch was picked. It doesn't matter where you get picked, good players can be found in any round of the draft. I've got to bring it up, but the average team gets a late round (3rd or lower) pick to contribute to their team every 3 years or so. Minnesota is way off the mark. Minnesota had very little to do with Tuch's development. He probably would have went the way of Coyle the way Minnesota develops. And Minnesota doesn't develop their players. Yes, they get to stick in the NHL - but many times it's because it's a necessity than the player actually you know shows that he can play in the NHL. Tuch had one season in the AHL, that isn't a ton of development, especially on a weak AHL team. They contributed, but Vegas put him in a place to succeed.

Nino had a NHL and an AHL season before MN got him. When did he develop? Where is the cutoff for development; age, league level, or just whenever?

Good question, because if we contribute Tuch's development to us, el Nino developed in New York, Donato in Boston, and Fiala in Nashville.

Granny was a wing they hoped could become a center.

Except he never played wing before he got to the NHL. He was seen as a pretty gifted center in the Finnish Elite League. Stop trying to change the narrative and the past. Granlund was drafted as a CENTER. He played as a CENTER most of his career until he hit the NHL.

With any sort of decent center depth he never would have even been tried out there. Wing suits his skillset much more than center. The lack of other options made MN try to fit a square peg into a round hole. The last 2+ seasons here Granny was the 20+g/40a+ player that was envisioned when he came into the league.

He was SUPPOSED to be part of that center depth when he was drafted. That is one of the big reasons why he was drafted.

Haula's ToI his last year here was fine. He was the weak link in the 3rd line, he played his way out of the lineup. So he had 14g at even strength, 10 FWDs that year had 13g+ at even strength. He wasn't better than Staal, and for a long stretch that season the Zucker/Koivu/Granny line was one of the top lines in NHL. I liked Haula, but he wasn't better than anyone ahead of him in the lineup.

And Haula is now showing that he was a top 6 center. So, what is the problem? Because both Vegas and now the Hurricanes seem to have found a way to maximize his potential. He has what? 3 goals already? And he had over 20 goals in Vegas? Also again, you're changing the narrative and this is so typical of Wild fans. Haula didn't work out, he was the weak link ... when did he ever get a proper chance in a season to play in the top 6? You see a pattern here? Haula didn't work out. Coyle didn't work out. el Nino didn't work out. Maybe it isn't the players, but the team?

The dr aft is a ton of guessing, even the teams that are good at it get maybe 2 players on average a season from the draft. If it wasn't there wouldn't be nay 1st round busts or 7th round successes. Those 7th rounders would have been picked a lot sooner if teams thought they were going to turn into top players. Even the teams that get lucky with them still have several misses with players picked ahead of them.

That part is guessing, but as I said teams on average get a lower end pick (3rd or lower) about every 3 years or so. So, what is Minnesota is they can't even get 1 player from a draft? Or just 1? Their drafting has been horrendous and they have given up or haven't develop prospects at all.

For all the draft picks that were traded away MN has a 1st rounded on their team from the 2011-2016. For all of Fenton's faults he did balance the team better for player's ages. If after Kunin's draft if you were told the Wild had Donato, JEE, Fiala, Greenway, Hartman, Kaprizov, and Kunin in their FWD prospect pool people would have been over the moon.

EVERY team has guys like Donato, JEE, Fiala, Greenway...Hartman (lol) and Kunin in their FWD prospect pool. Kaprizov is the only anomaly and we don't know if he'll come over yet or not. Also if you were told that they traded away Burns for Donato, Granlund for Fiala, JEE is barely an NHL player at this point, Kunin looks lost and Hartman at best is a 3rd liner, yeah - you're overselling this.

 

[57special]

I love the idea of a thread where we can bring all our hopes and dreams of badness.

 

[Bazeek]

Yeah, I can weather a bad season if that's what it comes to, and I'd certainly appreciate the up-shot of a high draft pick. But actively hoping for a full season of what we've seen in these first two games is hard to get my head around.

 

[Minnesnota]

Yeah, I can weather a bad season if that's what it comes to, and I'd certainly appreciate the up-shot of a high draft pick. But actively hoping for a full season of what we've seen in these first two games is hard to get my head around.

If it nets Quinton Byfield I'd bet your tune would change.

 

[Bazeek]

If it nets Quinton Byfield I'd bet your tune would change.

That would require conditions under which the Wild are guaranteed a particular player/draft position by being bad. Those conditions don't exist right now.

Either way, my personal priorities aren't necessarily the team's priorities. If they suck they suck, but I've got better things to do than spending 200 hours watching it.

 

[HollaHaula]

Overreaction much? Sharks must suck as well then.

The Sharks do suck lol Old, slow, and not much depth. Sounds familiar...

 

[TaLoN]

I said I want to watch good hockey. Watching bad hockey isn't something I'll do for very long. I turned off a lot of games last year and my interest isn't very high for this year's team.

Would you rather have lost Dumba to Vegas?

Granny and Coyle both would have been gone after this season. There isn't the cap to keep them. I also think the team is better off long for longer term after the trades.

The Coyle/Donato trade was good. Coyle was 10g/18a in 60 games and Donato was 4g/12a in 22 games last year for MN. So Donato getting 6g/6a in 38 more games isn't unreasonable. I really don't miss Coyle at all, he made me

The Granny/Fiala trade was light but not an awful trade. Granny had 1g/4a in NSH and Fiala had 3g/4a in MN after the trade. Even going back Granny's last 22 games in MN he had 3g/7a. Granny also had 1 goal in a 30 game stretch last year for MN. He was still getting his assists, but his game took a nosedive around Thanksgiving.

Nino for Rask was just bad.

For the most part I also don't care what a player does after he's traded away. None of Coyle, Granny, Haula, or Nino was actually playing well before they were traded. I'm also not a fan of mystery box draft picks that so many people seem to covet. I'd rater take a younger player that has shown he should be in the NHL over them most every time. You might get the next Pasta from them, but more likely you'll end up with a player that is 2-5 years away from even sniffing the NHL if he even gets that far.

I do think the first half of this season is going to be painful, but they kids will figure it out and start to come into their own in the 2nd half. Which will annoy the pro-tank fans because they want to lose games for a better draft pick.

Keep in mind, Boudreau said Granlund was playing through the exact same injury that caused Fehr to miss over a month last season. Granlund never missed a shift. Pretty sure that had a lot to do with his "nosedive".

Yes, as of now the Wild couldn't afford Granlund's coming cap hit, but that's because of moves made since he left. Had he not left, Zuccarello wouldn't be here for one, and likely a few other changes would be apparent as well.

I'd find it more likely that Granlund would have been re-signed this summer, for less than expected due to his drop in points last season.

 

[DANOZ28]

wabit i never would have left dumba unprotected go back & check my posts. i would have bought out or traded pommer rather than protect him. i would have used pommers protection to keep zucker. i would have left brodin; haula ; coyle staal & doobs all unprotected if memory servs. we'd still have tuch if i was gm. hey nice ring to it GMDANOZ28 don't ya think?

 

[2Pair]

Where did I say I cared where Tuch was picked. It doesn't matter where you get picked, good players can be found in any round of the draft. I've got to bring it up, but the average team gets a late round (3rd or lower) pick to contribute to their team every 3 years or so. Minnesota is way off the mark. Minnesota had very little to do with Tuch's development. He probably would have went the way of Coyle the way Minnesota develops. And Minnesota doesn't develop their players. Yes, they get to stick in the NHL - but many times it's because it's a necessity than the player actually you know shows that he can play in the NHL. Tuch had one season in the AHL, that isn't a ton of development, especially on a weak AHL team. They contributed, but Vegas put him in a place to succeed.



Good question, because if we contribute Tuch's development to us, el Nino developed in New York, Donato in Boston, and Fiala in Nashville.



Except he never played wing before he got to the NHL. He was seen as a pretty gifted center in the Finnish Elite League. Stop trying to change the narrative and the past. Granlund was drafted as a CENTER. He played as a CENTER most of his career until he hit the NHL.



He was SUPPOSED to be part of that center depth when he was drafted. That is one of the big reasons why he was drafted.



And Haula is now showing that he was a top 6 center. So, what is the problem? Because both Vegas and now the Hurricanes seem to have found a way to maximize his potential. He has what? 3 goals already? And he had over 20 goals in Vegas? Also again, you're changing the narrative and this is so typical of Wild fans. Haula didn't work out, he was the weak link ... when did he ever get a proper chance in a season to play in the top 6? You see a pattern here? Haula didn't work out. Coyle didn't work out. el Nino didn't work out. Maybe it isn't the players, but the team?



That part is guessing, but as I said teams on average get a lower end pick (3rd or lower) about every 3 years or so. So, what is Minnesota is they can't even get 1 player from a draft? Or just 1? Their drafting has been horrendous and they have given up or haven't develop prospects at all.



EVERY team has guys like Donato, JEE, Fiala, Greenway...Hartman (lol) and Kunin in their FWD prospect pool. Kaprizov is the only anomaly and we don't know if he'll come over yet or not. Also if you were told that they traded away Burns for Donato, Granlund for Fiala, JEE is barely an NHL player at this point, Kunin looks lost and Hartman at best is a 3rd liner, yeah - you're overselling this.

Source?

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

2006 Clutterbuck
2009 Haula
2011 Seeler
2013 Soucy
2015 Kaprizov (assuming)

Doesn’t seem like we’re too far off of average.