Line Combos: Panic Thread. Projected Line up?

Discussion in 'Ottawa Senators' started by Cruizer3000, Feb 19, 2017.

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  1. RAFI BOMB Registered User

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    When Neil is healthy my guess is that he takes a spot on the 4th line. He will be useful to have playing once we are in the playoffs and he will likely perform well as there will be a lack of time and space.
     
  2. SAK11 Registered User

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    Neil's pretty useless at this point in his career. When you're averaging 7 or so minutes per game it shows that you're not helping much. Boucher doesn't trust him and for good reason. There are 6 guys in the whole league that have played at least 30 games and average less ice time than him. This team is most effective when all 4 lines chip in, that's happened more with Stalberg and Burrows in the lineup. Ottawa is 10-3-1 without Neil in the lineup and two years ago they were 28-10-6. If you put Neil in, you're either- playing him 11-13 minutes as you normally would with your 4th line which is way too much, or you play him 5-7 minutes which means you're only rolling 3 lines, and that's not a recipe for success for this team.
     
  3. Classy Goon Registered User

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    And Ottawa had a fine record this year with Neil playing every game until the Wingels trade so it doesn't mean anything.

    Guaranteed that Boucher will put Neil in at some point when he's healthy. In the playoffs especially when the game gets more physical, Neil has always thrived. Imagine if we face the Habs with Ott, Shaw, King, etc. No way Neil would be a healthy scratch for that. Wingels would probably sit for him.
     
  4. Zorf Apparently I'm entitled?

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    I'm not so sure Neil plays.

    The wingers in Boucher's system need to get on their horse and backcheck like a mofo to cover for the D-man who pinches up in the neutral zone to stop the attacking forwards. Neil can't do that.

    If the opposing team happens to attack along their left wing, that D-man knows Neil isn't going to have the wheels to get back and cover for him so the foundation of the defensive system fails.

    I love Neil. I don't even like the thought of him not being a Senator. But I think his playing days are done. He might get a game or two, but as more of a farewell game than anything else.

    The only way he should draw back in is if someone gets hurt.

    Neil isn't going to intimidate the 4th line pests on Montreal. You think they won't throw a hit in a playoff game because Neil is on the bench?

    If anything, the smart play would be to throw big hits to make Boucher feel like he needs to put Neil on the ice and then the opposing team can take advantage of his lack of speed and attack down his wing.

    If you really want to take away the physical advantage that Shaw, Ott and King bring to the Habs, then use payers who can skate and keep the puck in the Habs zone. Those guys are useless when they can't run around and hit on the forecheck. Keep them in their zone where they need to play a more structured, positional game and abuse them for their lack of skill. Cycle, crisp passing, movement to create shooting lanes or draw penalties becuase they start reaching. THat's way more effective than Neil playing 5 minutes and intimidating no one.
     
  5. Stylizer1 SENSimillanaire

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    As long as Ryan is out of the line up there is no need to panic.
     
  6. Samsquanch Raging Bull Squatch

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    I'll say it now. If everyone comes back before Neil, and we don't get another rash of injuries, Neils already played his last game.

    He's a warrior and deserves the repspect of everyone who is a fan of the team, but he's a liability at this point. Can't see him playing again unless thing so go really wrong, like lots of injuries and/or we are all but down and out of a playoff series that we are getting badly bullied in.
     
  7. Pierre from Orleans Registered User

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    Where did you go to get the teams record and without a player?
     
  8. RAFI BOMB Registered User

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    The acquisition of Burrows and Stalberg actually increases the chances that Neil gets put back in the lineup. The main issue before was that Boucher liked to have a lot of penalty killers and Neil isn't the right kind of player to use on the PK. Stalberg and Burrows both play PK and are very good at it so we have an abundance of penalty killers at this point. Our current Penalty Killers are: Pageau, Smith, Burrows, Stalberg, Pyatt, Wingles and Kelly. On top of that Turris and Stone can play the pk. Given the abundance of players who can play the same role it won't hurt our defensive game or pk to switch one of those players out and put Neil in. Personally I would take Kelly out and play Neil instead. Kelly can't do much else other than kill penalties and with Stalberg and Burrows we don't have to rely on Kelly anymore. We might as well put Neil in instead as he provides more of a physical presence.

    Also that is quite the logical leap that you are making by attributing the variation in the Senators performance solely to the inclusion or exclusion of Neil from the lineup. That would be pretty similar to saying we are 2-0 with Turris out of the lineup and because we have lost games in the past when he was in the lineup that his inclusion in the lineup is the sole reason for our losses and therefore we shouldn't dress him again. Which is a ludicrous thing to say. Maybe you are confusing coincidence with correlation and with causation. You can speculate that our losses we directly caused by having Neil in the lineup if you want, but that doesn't necessarily prove your position. Maybe our losses are due to the fact that we are ranked 19th in Goals for per game. Or maybe that we are ranked 21st in power play percentage. Or maybe that we are ranked 18th in shots per game. Or maybe that we are ranked 8th in giveaways. Or maybe that our shot attempt percentage -behind is ranked 21st. There are many different ways to try to deconstruct the performance of a team and it would require a very thorough analysis to argue that one variable was the sole cause or even the primary cause for the success or failure of a team.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2017
  9. God Says No Registered User

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    Neil wasn't the sole reason why we lost the games, but he was a major contributor. He was one of the main reasons why the 4th line was anemic, and wasn't trusted by the coach. He was scratched for Lazar of all people. I think that tells you everything. It's highly unlikely he draws into the lineup on a regular basis, barring major injuries. I'm not sure he's even ahead of DiDo right now.
     
  10. bert Registered User

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    Barring massive amounts of injuries id be shocked to see Neil play again. If youre listening to Boucher he is saying he needs to roll 4 lines. He clearly wasnt comfortable doing that when Neil was in the lineup when you look at his ice time. Right now the 4th line is contributing, he isnt breaking that up.
     
  11. topshelf15 Registered User

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    Pretty much this ,in fact if Dido looks good as a injury repalcement.We may even see more of him down the stretch ,over a guy like Kelley:nod:
     
  12. Stylizer1 SENSimillanaire

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  13. DrEasy Out rumptackling

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    It's like I always say: better have a bunch of healthy depth guys than players who are playing through injury. It's been paying off during this win streak.

    And look at the speed on this team now!
     
  14. playasRus Registered User

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    When we play teams like Winnipeg though, i'd like Neil in the line-up
     
  15. Sens Rule Registered User

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    I don't think he plays much unless we have injuries or we want to physically intimidate a team. He might get a couple of games before the playoffs to keep on his game in case he is needed come playoffs.
     
  16. paradice Registered User

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    burrows gonna be a threat in the playoffs
     
  17. Sens Rule Registered User

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    Yup!
     
  18. Karl Prime Registered User

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    If Chris Neil was Chris Neil of 10 years ago, yeah, would love to have him back in the lineup. He's faaaaaar past that, and though I admire all that he's done for this team and this city, I don't think he's the guy that Boucher wants on the 4th line. If he was, his ice-time would have been increased.
     
  19. Sens Rule Registered User

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    Right now it looks like both Borowiecki and Neil are not in the top 6 D and top 12 F on the roster.

    If we are healthy in the playoffs and end up in a physical series one of the two is likely going to end up in the lineup some games. Likely Boro and we dress 7 D.

    We don't want guys like Dzingel having to fight much. Phaneuf is as tough and good a fighter as Neil or Boro but we need him on the ice and not in the box or booted from the game or with broken fingers.

    It is a luxury to have Neil and Boro in reserve. The games they do end up playing they will be like starving snarling dogs fighting over a steak.
     
  20. Hutz Registered User

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    I.. I feel like someone should change the name of this thread. Not enough panicking going on for such an active panic thread.
     
  21. variable26 Global Matador

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    Claesson for Methot -?
     
  22. GWNR Registered User

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    Lines if Stone is back Saturday?

    Smith-Brassard-Stone
    Dzingel-Turris-Ryan
    Hoffman-Pageau-Pyatt
    Burrows-Wingels-Stalberg
    Kelly
     
  23. Icelevel -+-+-*-+-*-+-=???

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    Claesson-Karlsson
    Phaneuf-Ceci
    Boro-Wideman
    Jokipakka
     
  24. aragorn #Boucherout

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    Sadly, I agree.

    I don't think Phaneuf is anywhere near as tough or as good a fighter as either Boro or Neil & I don't agree that Boro is the 7th D on this team when he is clearly playing ahead of Claesson with a full healthy defence. I do agree that having Neil around when the going gets tougher as it will in the playoffs should lift the spirits of the non-fighters on this team. Looking forward to see how this team handles the physical play in the playoffs & whether they will need Neil or handle it themselves.
     
  25. Do Make Say Think & Yet & Yet

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    He probably was our best forward last night and did a great job screening the goalie on the tying goal.

    Doesn't get a point but was instrumental in the win.

    You don't know anything about this game.
     
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