Proposal: Panarin - Stone - Nylander (all signed long term)

[major major]

Three-way sign and trade, all players signed long term.

To CBJ: Mark Stone

To TOR: Artemi Panarin

To OTT: William Nylander


Why does Columbus do it? Stone adds a lot on both ends of the ice, makes up for much of the loss of Panarin, who is a great two way player himself. Columbus doesn't want to get younger, so Stone fits well being the same age as Panarin. Interestingly these two are your league leaders in takeaways.

Why does Toronto do it? Panarin is easily the best player in the deal. Panarin almost knocked out the Caps by himself. He's top 1% in takeaways, successful zone exits and entries, and high-danger passes. He puts the Leafs over the top if they weren't already. He'll cost $2-$3m more than Nylander, which is a big downside, but they can pay to unload a contract (Zaitsev for a cheaper D-man?) and still come out ahead with Panarin.

Why does Ottawa do it? They need to refocus their team around younger players who can't walk away anytime soon. Nylander is good now and he probably has a bit more upside he can reach. That's the sort of thing needed to re-inject some optimism into the team.

I could have worked in other players to make it salary neutral but the simplicity here is a plus. Other deals can be worked out to even out the salary.
Flame away.

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[Romkey]

I don't hate it as a Leafs fan, and it makes sense for the other teams. BUT I don't know how comfortable I would be dealing Willy for someone who could potentially be just a rental, and if not a rental, a player making around $9M in his extension.

Not a bad deal though

 

[CowMix]

Toronto has to add here, they are getting by far the best player of the 3. I think Ottawa and Columbus could get more in separate deals.

 

[stempniaksen]

I think another piece probably has to go from Toronto to Ottawa, but it's a decent little proposal. Also not sure it makes sense for Toronto to pay Panarin 2-3 million more per season than Nylander given the cap crunch they are going to run into. He'd be worth it though for sure.

 

[Nizdizzle]

Leafs aren't going to pay to downgrade their D (move Zaitsev for someone cheaper as per OP) in order to upgrade their already potent offense.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Toronto would probably only have interest in Panarin as a rental for this year, and I am pretty sure Panarin wants to go back to Chicago anyway. moving a core piece for him doesn't make sense

 

[CamelToews]

Matthews and Panarin would be scary.

 

[Liferleafer]

Toronto has to add here, they are getting by far the best player of the 3. I think Ottawa and Columbus could get more in separate deals.

I think another piece probably has to go from Toronto to Ottawa, but it's a decent little proposal. Also not sure it makes sense for Toronto to pay Panarin 2-3 million more per season than Nylander given the cap crunch they are going to run into. He'd be worth it though for sure.

Not to be a tool here, but we know Nylander wants to be here....and have no idea what Panarin wants. I mean Panarin wants out and will be an UFA, i don't think i'd be comfortable moving Nylander+.

 

[major major]

Toronto has to add here, they are getting by far the best player of the 3. I think Ottawa and Columbus could get more in separate deals.

Yes if Panarin and Stone were already under long term deals. But because they'd need to be willing to do a sign-and-trade, and have the option of just waiting a year to UFA, and Nylander doesn't have the same leverage, then it brings the value closer to even. In terms of hockey value Panarin > Stone >> Nylander, but with age and contract situation it looks really close to me.

I think another piece probably has to go from Toronto to Ottawa, but it's a decent little proposal. Also not sure it makes sense for Toronto to pay Panarin 2-3 million more per season than Nylander given the cap crunch they are going to run into. He'd be worth it though for sure.

So you're sure, then? This is kind of my thought process actually.

Leafs aren't going to pay to downgrade their D (move Zaitsev for someone cheaper as per OP) in order to upgrade their already potent offense.

You'd think. But we've been saying that about the Leafs D for how many years now? They've continued down this road and built a winner and made a huge commitment to Tavares. And I think Panarin is better than Tavares. And with both, and with Matthews and Marner, they're taking the Pens cup-winning build and blowing it out of the water. Also is losing Zaitsev actually a downgrade? From last year's play I think it might be an improvement.

 

[member 157595]

I have no idea how much Panarin would cost. He's obviously better than Nylander in a vacuum but in reality we need to focus on upgrading the defense more than upgrading Nylander to Panarin.

 

[Rolo]

Panarin-Matthews
Tavares-Marner
Marleau-Kadri

 

[slimbob8]

At least from a value perspective, this is a solid proposal IMO.

 

[major major]

Not to be a tool here, but we know Nylander wants to be here....and have no idea what Panarin wants. I mean Panarin wants out and will be an UFA, i don't think i'd be comfortable moving Nylander+.

The deal obviously only makes sense if the players want to do it. Panarin (and Stone) would need to do sign and trades. That's the first thing I wrote in the proposal.

 

[Nizdizzle]

You'd think. But we've been saying that about the Leafs D for how many years now? They've continued down this road and built a winner and made a huge commitment to Tavares. And I think Panarin is better than Tavares. And with both, and with Matthews and Marner, they're taking the Pens cup-winning build and blowing it out of the water. Also is losing Zaitsev actually a downgrade? From last year's play I think it might be an improvement.

I dunno, like 1.5 years? 2016-2017 they were still expected to be rebuilding and exceeded expectations. If the Leafs can get better defensemen than Zaitsev that are also cheaper than Zaitsev, why haven't they done it yet? People love to use hyperbole on this board, but zaitsev was a 2nd pairing d-man on a 105 point team last year. There aren't cheaper and better options being offered around the league.

 

[member 147413]

Toronto has to add here, they are getting by far the best player of the 3. I think Ottawa and Columbus could get more in separate deals.

Panarin is older, will be more expensive and has 1 year left on his contract.

Why would the Leafs try to age their core for a luxury? It doesn’t make sense need wise and value wise, Panarin isn’t that much more valuable, if at all, especially considering the contract situation.

 

[Nizdizzle]

Panarin is older, will be more expensive and has 1 year left on his contract.

Why would the Leafs try to age their core for a luxury? It doesn’t make sense need wise and value wise, Panarin isn’t that much more valuable, if at all, especially considering the contract situation.

The premise in the OP has all players signed longterm, not that I think the Leafs should do it.

 

[member 147413]

I think another piece probably has to go from Toronto to Ottawa, but it's a decent little proposal. Also not sure it makes sense for Toronto to pay Panarin 2-3 million more per season than Nylander given the cap crunch they are going to run into. He'd be worth it though for sure.

Ottawa fans should be ecstatic to get Nylander for Stone. Leafs don’t add anything.

 

[member 147413]

The premise in the OP has all players signed longterm, not that I think the Leafs should do it.

That just complicates the Leafs cap situation which is already tight enough.

 

[kindalaidback]

no

 

[major major]

I dunno, like 1.5 years? 2016-2017 they were still expected to be rebuilding and exceeded expectations. If the Leafs can get better defensemen than Zaitsev that are also cheaper than Zaitsev, why haven't they done it yet? People love to use hyperbole on this board, but zaitsev was a 2nd pairing d-man on a 105 point team last year. There aren't cheaper and better options being offered around the league.

I didn't see enough Zaitsev to really know.

In any case, going forward it's worth it to the Leaf to trade futures for a high value cost-controlled D-man. Last year you could have said they were still saving their chips.

 

[major major]

Panarin is older, will be more expensive and has 1 year left on his contract.

Why would the Leafs try to age their core for a luxury? It doesn’t make sense need wise and value wise, Panarin isn’t that much more valuable, if at all, especially considering the contract situation.

Do you comment in a lot of threads without reading the first sentence of the opening post?

 

[member 147413]

Do you comment in a lot of threads without reading the first sentence of the opening post?

Do you always come off so brash?

I’ll comment on team needs then. This would be a very stupid trade for Toronto.

 

[loyaltotheend]

You'd think. But we've been saying that about the Leafs D for how many years now? They've continued down this road and built a winner and made a huge commitment to Tavares. And I think Panarin is better than Tavares. And with both, and with Matthews and Marner, they're taking the Pens cup-winning build and blowing it out of the water. Also is losing Zaitsev actually a downgrade? From last year's play I think it might be an improvement.

As someone already mentioned, I wouldn't do it because Panarin is leaving after one season. Nylander is young, tons of talent, and wants to be here.

Regarding Zaitsev and his play last year: he was concussed and only getting over it by the time the season started. Broke his foot in December, and then caught a bad flu down the stretch. (He lost 10lbs while sick).
I don't think health means he will be an all star, but I expect we will see a better season from him

EDIT:
If the premise is everyone is signed long term, it costs more than Nylander, and now I'm definitely not in favour

 

[Spirit of 67]

We'll keep Willy as the least expensive of the players.

 

[RantanenRavin]

Am I the only one who would rather have stone than panarin? Selke calibre, would do lots to improve the quality of team defense,