Rumor: Pacioretty to NYI, ROR to MTL almost happened

[MarkovsKnee]

Pacioretty did not produce with anyone. He didn't produce last year. And, the year before he didn't produce at all until they took Radulov off of Galchenyuk's line and put him with Pacioretty. Also, playing with Desharnais and Cole or Desharnais and Vanek were good players to play with.

Bottom line, a big part of his game is speed and that is bound to go by the time he's 33, if it hasn't already.

Not necessarily. Marleau is still an effortless skater and Pacioretty works on his game a lot. I don't think you're going to see much of a drop-off from him in terms of skating.

I can see him easily being at least a 25+ goal scorer for the next 5 seasons.

After that it's likely his hands go before his skating.

He's going to be almost 31 at the start of his next contract, so if he does get 7/8 years, the last 2-3 years should be at a much lower rate, which would off-set the overall cap hit, hopefully.

 

[TT1]

Since when a strong ES player is worth less than a PP specialist?

Where did i say that a strong ES player is worth less than a PP specialist? I don't even understand how you came to that conclusion..

I basically said he's a good ES goal scoring/defensive winger and a weak player on the PP, i wanted to know other comparables to gauge his value.

 

[The Great Weal]

Not necessarily. Marleau is still an effortless skater and Pacioretty works on his game a lot. I don't think you're going to see much of a drop-off from him in terms of skating.

I can see him easily being at least a 25+ goal scorer for the next 5 seasons.

After that it's likely his hands go before his skating.

He's going to be almost 31 at the start of his next contract, so if he does get 7/8 years, the last 2-3 years should be at a much lower rate, which would off-set the overall cap hit, hopefully.

It's funny because Kane's game is far more likely to fall off a cliff than Pacioretty.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

It's pretty clear we are trying to parlay Pacioretty into ROR which would be a good flip.

It's the right idea. We're short on quality centers & have an over abundance of LW.

Problem is MB has never been able to close these kinds of deals.

He's kicked a few tires on centers & skilled players, and the only one he's come up with is Drouin. In that case, TB were forced to trade him and we still had to give up our best D prospect for him.

 

[M.C.G. 31]

It's the right idea. We're short on quality centers & have an over abundance of LW.

Problem is MB has never been able to close these kinds of deals.

He's kicked a few tires on centers & skilled players, and the only one he's come up with is Drouin. In that case, TB were forced to trade him and we still had to give up our best D prospect for him.

yup. It gets really tiring to hear "oh, Bergevin ALMOST did this" or "Bergevin is involved in everything in the league when it comes to trade talk" but there is no finish or execution when it comes time to pull the trigger. We take lesser, smaller, safer deals, or we trade better players for older, lesser counterparts. It's just very tiring. I'd rather he not be involved in "everything" if it meant he could finally pull the trigger on something big that would finally make us better.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

It's funny because Kane's game is far more likely to fall off a cliff than Pacioretty.

I agree. Kane's party lifestyle is not going to help extend his career either.

Pacioretty takes care of himself & works on his game. During the 5 day break for the Habs in 2017 season, he spent it in Montreal working with his skills coach.

I have less concern with Pacioretty aging than most other players. I do think he can age well, like Marleau has.

Problem is he's 30 this year & 31 at the beginning of his next contract, so 5 years & he's already at 35/36.

It would be very tough giving him anything more than 6 years.

 

[OldCraig71]

my feeling is that Patch produces with good puck-moving defensemen rather than good forward linemates. I don't think of him as a 30-goal scorer with a defense where its best puck mover is Jeff Petry.

You nailed it, it's his bread and butter. He is not good in traffic because he does not have the hands or willingness to use his frame to create space. He can thank Markov and Subban for much of his production, flying the zone and capitalising on passes that led to odd man rushes. I predicted before last season that he would struggle to score 20 without a good puck mover and I was right.

 

[Habs Icing]

Centers are far more impactful than wingers, and Pacioretty never had a top 6 center for even half a season. This isn't even my point. Kane hasn't gotten anywhere near Pacioretty stats despite play with significantly better centers.

You may want to go check your facts.

Just looking at their ppg Kane is .61. Pacioretty is .71. There's a dif yes but nothing to warrant your hyperbolic statement. Also Kane was pushed into the league prematurely at 18/19 while Pacioretty came into the league fully developed in his twenties. So when you look at Kane he'll be 27 this up coming season, Patches will be 30. I would bet that Kane will outproduce Patches by a mile over the next 7 years. Even over the next four years. Also, the excuse Captain Ready never had a competent center to work with is just that an excuse. He played with extremely good centers on Team USA a number of times and stunk worse than he did with the Habs during the playoffs. So much so that he pushed Torts to his wits end where he publicly humiliated him. Patches is a complementary player who puts up good numbers when the going is easy. He is not a go-to player and LA's offer with the take it or leave it ultimatum shows that the league is starting to properly evaluate him. Unfortunately for MB - and for us.

 

[Belial]

Where did i say that a strong ES player is worth less than a PP specialist? I don't even understand how you came to that conclusion..

I basically said he's a good ES goal scoring/defensive winger and a weak player on the PP, i wanted to know other comparables to gauge his value.

My bad... The way you constructed your phrase it sounded like producing on the PP is more important than being an effective ES player.

He's not useless on the PP though... He's still able to produce on the PP.

 

[The Great Weal]

You may want to go check your facts.

Just looking at their ppg Kane is .61. Pacioretty is .71. There's a dif yes but nothing to warrant your hyperbolic statement. Also Kane was pushed into the league prematurely at 18/19 while Pacioretty came into the league fully developed in his twenties. So when you look at Kane he'll be 27 this up coming season, Patches will be 30. I would bet that Kane will outproduce Patches by a mile over the next 7 years. Even over the next four years. Also, the excuse Captain Ready never had a competent center to work with is just that an excuse. He played with extremely good centers on Team USA a number of times and stunk worse than he did with the Habs during the playoffs. So much so that he pushed Torts to his wits end where he publicly humiliated him. Patches is a complementary player who puts up good numbers when the going is easy. He is not a go-to player and LA's offer with the take it or leave it ultimatum shows that the league is starting to properly evaluate him. Unfortunately for MB - and for us.

Pacioretty had more points than Kane in every single season since 2011-2012(besides last year). That's a decent difference right there, and Pacioretty isn't some massive headcase like Kane either. He also plays defense a lot more. I put no value in international tournaments. Some people do well while others do shit.

 

[Lebowski]

I agree that 6x6 is pretty insulting for a goal scorer like Patches who's also one of the best 2 way wingers in the game.

He isn't "one of the best two-way wingers". He's hardly a two-way winger at all.

His reputation in that regard really got over inflated from being a fairly decent PKer.

 

[Habs Icing]

Pacioretty had more points than Kane in every single season since 2011-2012(besides last year). That's a decent difference right there, and Pacioretty isn't some massive headcase like Kane either. He also plays defense a lot more. I put no value in international tournaments. Some people do well while others do ****.

In other words you only look at facts that support your point of view and ignore the ones that subvert it.

 

[yianik]

In terms of value, an unextended Patches for ROR is a great deal for Habs. ROR for the 11th not so good. Patches for the 11th for one year is fair value for the Isles.

 

[The Great Weal]

In other words you only look at facts that support your point of view and ignore the ones that subvert it.

You mean the fact that Pacioretty has clearly been better than Kane in every year besides last year? That's a pretty big fact to ignore.

 

[Belial]

In terms of value, an unextended Patches for ROR is a great deal for Habs. ROR for the 11th not so good. Patches for the 11th for one year is fair value for the Isles.

So 5 years of ROR for the 11th pick is bad value but Max for 1 year is a decent value? Really?

 

[yianik]

So 5 years of ROR for the 11th pick is bad value but Max for 1 year is a decent value? Really?

You jumped too quick and didn't see who I was calling a winner, loser.

For one year of Patches the 11th is fair value for us. For us, ROR for 5 years is a great deal.

For Buffalo, I think the 11th for ROR is a terrible trade. For the Isles, the 11th for Patches is fair value.

So if we had gotten ROR for one year of Patches, major trade win for us.

 

[Belial]

According to that statement Poile must be the second and third coming of Christ. He was able to get not one but two centers. You know if MB had picked up half-way decent centers over his tenure and they crapped the bed many fans would be pissed with the players and not the GM. But think about it. We don't have a #1 or #2 center on this team and our glorious leader decimated the complete left side of our defense and called it an improvement. I'm not expecting miracles. I'm expecting for him to rub together two brain cells and create a spark. On the other hand I could be wrong. Maybe he only has one brain cell.

And now let's go back once again to that 2008/2011 putrid draft years! The answer is there for god sake! Even if the majority can't get it, I hope you will be able!

The reason Poile was able to trade a stud like Seth Jones that was drafted in 2013 for a center like Johansen and look like an amazing genius, is because that team was able to draft Josi in 2008, and Ekholm and Ellis in 2009 while still having a beast in Weber out there!

Same shit happened this year, they still had those guys in the lineup so Girard was expandable... And Turris laid an egg, to be honest... That trade looks bad for the moment.

When Bergevin took over there was nothing to trade my friend! and there was nothing to trade for years because there was nothing decent coming up the pipeline!

 

[Habs Icing]

And now let's go back once again to that 2008/2011 putrid draft years! The answer is there for god sake! Even if the majority can't get it, I hope you will be able!

The reason Poile was able to trade a stud like Seth Jones that was drafted in 2013 for a center like Johansen and look like an amazing genius, is because that team was able to draft Josi in 2008, and Ekholm and Ellis in 2009 while still having a beast in Weber out there!

Same **** happened this year, they still had those guys in the lineup so Girard was expandable... And Turris laid an egg, to be honest... That trade looks bad for the moment.

When Bergevin took over there was nothing to trade my friend! and there was nothing to trade for years because there was nothing decent coming up the pipeline!

He traded a blue chip d-man for for a winger just last summer. This year he traded Chucky for another winger and when he was at his lowest value . He screwed up the Patches situation so badly we may just see him play for the Habs this year. I used your reasoning for 6 years. He had nothing to trade. That's not true. He doesn't know how to build a team. Example: he destroyed the left side of the defense and called it an improvement. To use street language the man is a bird brain.

 

[Legend123]

So :

Zadina, O’Reilly and + (from Islanders).

Or

Kotkaniemi and Pacioretty.

You do realize we had already drafted Kotka by the time this deal would have been done?

 

[Belial]

He traded a blue chip d-man for for a winger just last summer. This year he traded Chucky for another winger and when he was at his lowest value . He screwed up the Patches situation so badly we may just see him play for the Habs this year. I used your reasoning for 6 years. He had nothing to trade. That's not true. He doesn't know how to build a team. Example: he destroyed the left side of the defense and called it an improvement. To use street language the man is a bird brain.

Who said he didn't try to trade Sergachev for a center/center prospect?

Why was it Chucky's lowest value this season? When was he supposed to trade him?

Did he screw up Patches situation? Really? How exactly?

You sound irrational at this point man...

 

[OldCraig71]

Who said he didn't try to trade Sergachev for a center/center prospect?

Why was it Chucky's lowest value this season? When was he supposed to trade him?

Did he screw up Patches situation? Really? How exactly?

You sound irrational at this point man...

If he couldn't get a center for Sergachev why not just keep him?

When the season was over in November why not have chuck back at center if only as a way to boost his trade value?

He should have moved Pacioretty at the tdl when there was less competition from other teams looking to make moves like he is experiencing now.

 

[Belial]

If he couldn't get a center for Sergachev why not just keep him?

I'm fine with that trade, so I'm not going to argue here...

The value he got for a junior player was through the roof.

Drouin will prove a lot of you out there wrong soon.

When the season was over in November why not have chuck back at center if only as a way to boost his trade value?

And him struggling at center would've boosted his value?

He should have moved Pacioretty at the tdl when there was less competition from other teams looking to make moves like he is experiencing now.

Do you know the offers that were on the table? I mean we can only speculate...

 

[OldCraig71]

I'm fine with that trade, so I'm not going to argue here...

The value he got for a junior player was through the roof.

Drouin will prove a lot of you out there wrong soon.


And him struggling at center would've boosted his value?



Do you know the offers that were on the table? I mean we can only speculate...

The fact of the matter remains that he traded one of the best D prospects in the league for a natural winger.

How do you know that chucky would have struggled at center, speculation perhaps? Drouin struggled mightily at center but was kept there, puzzling move considering the fact that you feel that it would have been a lost cause to allow chucky to struggle there. I don't know what offers were on the table but surely it would have been easier to move patch when there were less options available from other teams, I would have been fine with a center prospect and a pick. We traded a prospect for Drouin so why wouldn't other teams do the same for Pacioretty?

 

[Belial]

The fact of the matter remains that he traded one of the best D prospects in the league for a natural winger.

How do you know that chucky would have struggled at center, speculation perhaps? Drouin struggled mightily at center but was kept there, puzzling move considering the fact that you feel that it would have been a lost cause to allow chucky to struggle there. I don't know what offers were on the table but surely it would have been easier to move patch when there were less options available from other teams, I would have been fine with a center prospect and a pick. We traded a prospect for Drouin so why wouldn't other teams do the same for Pacioretty?

Again, that trade was perfectly fine at the moment it was done!

Misha was a great highly skilled D prospect while Drouin was already a young skilled and extremely talented NHL player! I mean the value is right there...

This is not Seth Jones or something... Sergachev was a question mark!

I've been watching him(Chucky) his entire career and I know he struggles at center...

I don't know what was offered, I can't comment, and you shouldn't btw...

Saying stuff like Bergevin the idiot should've traded him at the TDL without knowing what was on the table is just extremely stupid...

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

I'm fine with that trade, so I'm not going to argue here...

The value he got for a junior player was through the roof.

Drouin will prove a lot of you out there wrong soon.


And him struggling at center would've boosted his value?



Do you know the offers that were on the table? I mean we can only speculate...

Sergachev was blue chip. The value we got in return wasnt through the roof. Talent for talent, wingers are worth less than centers or PMDs.

That trade was a PR move, plain n simple. In terms of what was our most dire need outside of a C (replace Markov long term), that trade should never have been made.