Owen Sound Attack 2018-19 Season Thread (Part 2)

[jamemcca]

Let's wade back into the year-old threads and see how many times this was said about Gabe Vilardi. And yet here we are. Never say never...

Vilardi is also missing the first half of season the past two years. Totally different scenarios

Unlike the sky falls in Suzuki will not be in the Ohl next year. Put all conditional picks you want but still won’t be happening. I will wager on that

 

[Old Watcher]

Vilardi is also missing the first half of season the past two years. Totally different scenarios

Unlike the sky falls in Suzuki will not be in the Ohl next year. Put all conditional picks you want but still won’t be happening. I will wager on that

But the likelihood of his return to the OHL doesn't involve odds whatsoever. It's just insurance.

My house is unlikely to burn down this year. It's a bad bet just looking at the odds. I still have insurance.

If he doesn't return then it's a refund for the insurers and no cost to the buyer of said insurance. Insurance never works out so well. I'd buy that insurance....and be happy to sell the same deal.

 

[jamemcca]

But the likelihood of his return to the OHL doesn't involve odds whatsoever. It's just insurance.

My house is unlikely to burn down this year. It's a bad bet just looking at the odds. I still have insurance.

Said I didn’t disagree. Not sure why to repeat yourself

Good for having house insurance. Most normal people have that

 

[Old Watcher]

Said I didn’t disagree. Not sure why to repeat yourself

Good for having house insurance. Most normal people have that

You didn't disagree, but you mocked him/her.

You are correct. Some things are obvious even if you mock the thought.

London is but one of many possible beneficiaries and they are a good bet to take a couple of guys from somewhere to keep in the race for first place.

Anyone who gives up a 19 yr old without insurance is just plain stupid.

 

[OS Fan]

I for one feel if a deal is done for Suzuki to London there better be some conditions on an OA season because if theirs a team that can get a player to return for an OA year.. its London

Suzuki will not be back for an OA season. He was a first round NHL pick and will go pro next year. How many 1st rounders are OAs.... ??

 

[OMG67]

You didn't disagree, but you mocked him/her.

You are correct. Some things are obvious even if you mock the thought.

London is but one of many possible beneficiaries and they are a good bet to take a couple of guys from somewhere to keep in the race for first place.

Anyone who gives up a 19 yr old without insurance is just plain stupid.

Conditional picks added to protect against OA years usually lowers the non-conditional trade from slightly to a lot.

For example, the Konecny deal with Sarnia (although Konecny wouldn’t be an OA), had two additional 2nds conditional on his return to the OHL as a 19 year old. Ottawa could have foregone those two conditionals and had one more 2nd in the non-conditional trade. If Hayton were to be traded this year (and Dellandrea), you would probably see conditionals added but only to protect BOTH sides. The acquiring team will give more knowing he returns but the selling team gets less if he doesn’t etc...

The other issue with Conditionals is those picks become locked and are unable to be used in current deals. So a team may want o pay the little extra up front to allow access to more picks, especially a team light on picks. For example, a team like London loaded with picks wouldn’t care. A team like SSM, if they chose to go on another run, wouldn’t want to use conditional picks because they have so few to begin with.

 

[Old Watcher]

Conditional picks added to protect against OA years usually lowers the non-conditional trade from slightly to a lot.

For example, the Konecny deal with Sarnia (although Konecny wouldn’t be an OA), had two additional 2nds conditional on his return to the OHL as a 19 year old. Ottawa could have foregone those two conditionals and had one more 2nd in the non-conditional trade. If Hayton were to be traded this year (and Dellandrea), you would probably see conditionals added but only to protect BOTH sides. The acquiring team will give more knowing he returns but the selling team gets less if he doesn’t etc...

The other issue with Conditionals is those picks become locked and are unable to be used in current deals. So a team may want o pay the little extra up front to allow access to more picks, especially a team light on picks. For example, a team like London loaded with picks wouldn’t care. A team like SSM, if they chose to go on another run, wouldn’t want to use conditional picks because they have so few to begin with.

All valid points.

All things to be considered.

My main concern is 'never assume' anything.

I know you've been watching this show for years. You've seen everything by now and so have I. Would I be shocked if Suzuki was sent back? A little if he went to London and a lot if he went elsewhere.....unless there was a move to London in the behind the scenes work....then we're right back to 'a little'.

I know London can get things done that few, if any, others could even imagine. Happens consistently enough to warrant a thought or two. These guys do play in our division. That's significant enough to slant any deal toward another team entirely. Just a little, but the difference is real.

Between them managing multiple holdouts 'showing up', other teams not having the same luck/skill/resources, and the incredibly lopsided trades they've managed over the years anyone who wasn't born yesterday should be wary.

Good luck Ottawa. You've waited long enough for a return to glory. I remember when it was you guys for a time. I'm pulling for trades to both teams as a compromise for local fans here in Owen Sound. With any luck we'll have a couple or a few players making a difference in the spring. I was there in 99.

 

[AttackRinkRat]

Just saw that Rangers have released Chase Campbell today due to condition on pick. Too bad, nice kid, worked hard.
Rangers Report

 

[OHLFan90]

We are about to lose to a team that sold off its 1st line d pair. A top forward and their starting goalie. A team that isn't even in a playoff spot.

Seriously this weekend better be a damn wake up call for Dale DeGray.

Sell off.
Fire Todd Gill
Re-evaluate the scouting staff.

 

[OS Fan]

We are about to lose to a team that sold off its 1st line d pair. A top forward and their starting goalie. A team that isn't even in a playoff spot.

Seriously this weekend better be a damn wake up call for Dale DeGray.

Sell off.
Fire Todd Gill
Re-evaluate the scouting staff.

All of the above

 

[GangGreen]

Suzuki will not be back for an OA season. He was a first round NHL pick and will go pro next year. How many 1st rounders are OAs.... ??

None. I think it’s happened maybe once in the last 20 years that a signed first round NHL pick was returned for an OA season.
Definitely not one who puts up 100 pts 2 years in a row.

 

[EvenSteven]

None. I think it’s happened maybe once in the last 20 years that a signed first round NHL pick was returned for an OA season.
Definitely not one who puts up 100 pts 2 years in a row.

This came up before a while back.

Brad Brown was a 1st rounder to the Habs on 1994. Played an OA season in Barrie.

Adam Munro was a 1st rounder in 2001 to Chicago. Played an OA season split between Erie and the Soo. Not sure if he was signed to an entry level deal though.

It's rare, but it has happened. There may be more but these two come to mind.

But no way is Suzuki playing an OA season. Not a chance.

 

[aresknights]

You didn't disagree, but you mocked him/her.

You are correct. Some things are obvious even if you mock the thought.

London is but one of many possible beneficiaries and they are a good bet to take a couple of guys from somewhere to keep in the race for first place.

Anyone who gives up a 19 yr old without insurance is just plain stupid.

When it comes to Suzuki, as you are talking about here, there arent "many" beneficiaries.
The list is small. Its not every potential "go for it" squad in the running. Suzuki and team(parents/agent ect...) dictated the team(s) he would OK
But ya, sure throw some conditional picks in there. Wont make difference in the end game.
The fact there is few suitors is the bigger issue for OS.
But they will get a very solid return if he is moved

 

[aresknights]

All valid points.

All things to be considered.

My main concern is 'never assume' anything.

I know you've been watching this show for years. You've seen everything by now and so have I. Would I be shocked if Suzuki was sent back? A little if he went to London and a lot if he went elsewhere.....unless there was a move to London in the behind the scenes work....then we're right back to 'a little'.

I know London can get things done that few, if any, others could even imagine. Happens consistently enough to warrant a thought or two. These guys do play in our division. That's significant enough to slant any deal toward another team entirely. Just a little, but the difference is real.

Between them managing multiple holdouts 'showing up', other teams not having the same luck/skill/resources, and the incredibly lopsided trades they've managed over the years anyone who wasn't born yesterday should be wary.
.

Name the OHL teams that have lost more players with junior eligibilty left (not OA years) than London over the last 10-15 years.

Ill await the answer. Thou I doubt it comes

The evidence kinda goes against yoir claim that Suzuki would be more likely returned if he played for London but dont let facts get in the way.

Suzuki on Londons roster or anywhere else is a super longshot to return in spite of your thoughts on a little surprised to retrun to LK but a lot elsewhere. #s suggest the exact opposite but buy into the hater hype lol.
Again Ill await your answer on who has had more kids go pro early than London. You will be hard pressed to find one

 

[jamemcca]

You didn't disagree, but you mocked him/her.

You are correct. Some things are obvious even if you mock the thought.

London is but one of many possible beneficiaries and they are a good bet to take a couple of guys from somewhere to keep in the race for first place.

Anyone who gives up a 19 yr old without insurance is just plain stupid.

Didn’t mock Anyone. Said with a apple typo mind you

Unlike the sky falls in Suzuki will not be in the Ohl next year.

Quite simple really

 

[AttackSound]

Anyone have a game report on last night's 5-1 loss??

Only heard about the first few minutes of the game when it was 1-0 Barrie.

 

[BrunoDaBear]

Agree. The scenarios being thrown around are just that. There are a ton of people moving this deadline and any team with picks and young players they're willing to let go of can go ahead and join the race. The gap between winners and the average team is quite small.....almost imperceptible at times.

The biggest difference is still a shortage of quality goaltenders.

You are right about DD. DD has a history of sitting when he should stand and standing when he should sit. That's what got him in this pickle. His trading record is completely hit and miss....and when he's off base he's epic. His judgement is awful. When he is sitting where a cup is within reach he'd burn the franchise down to avoid it. I no longer trust his 'judgement'. He has never seen the future.

He entered another year with not one 17 yr old goalie, but two.

He has something to prove in a big way.

Show me a GM that has hit a home run on every deal ever made? DD has had a couple stinkers and also made out like a bandit too. Cordell James for a 4th was a steal. Smith trade. Petgrave and Shaw for Shipley, Fritsch for Wilson. I'd say those were one sided trades. Yeah it sucks that the last couple trades didn't work out as hoped but that's all part of the game.

 

[jamemcca]

Show me a GM that has hit a home run on every deal ever made? DD has had a couple stinkers and also made out like a bandit too. Cordell James for a 4th was a steal. Smith trade. Petgrave and Shaw for Shipley, Fritsch for Wilson. I'd say those were one sided trades. Yeah it sucks that the last couple trades didn't work out as hoped but that's all part of the game.

Contrary to what some on here say he has also done well in trades with London. Gemel Smith and victor Mete to be specific

Degray is a respected GM in the league: Owen Sound is in good hands there

That being said the coach doesn’t get the same endorsement

 

[OS Fan]

What Fred said....

Bench Talk / Off The Wire Foreshadowing

 

[Tickattack]

Anyone have a game report on last night's 5-1 loss??

Only heard about the first few minutes of the game when it was 1-0 Barrie.

MacLean actually played pretty well for 17 yrs old, made some nice saves, but inexperience eventually caught up with. Out goalies have raw talent, but they need to be mentored and brought along a little slower. How can that be done if they are both 17?

 

[Attackfan72]

Salty? So you rather cut your nose off despite your face. If Suzuki says London only and they make a decent offer you want DD to turn it down? So you can "screw London " and The Attack all in one shot?

No, if it is his only choice then he has to do it. I am just hoping he has options is all. I don't want the attack to screwed.

 

[OHL insideout]

Just returned from an extended Holiday vacation. Looks like a lot of things going on in Attackland at the moment. The Christmas break has shown to be a curse for this team after riding a brilliant 5 game win streak heading in. Looking into the 3 games since the return to action, one thing instantly stands out to me, the Coach has given up on a game plan to actually WIN. There seems to be no structure in the game plan as there was before the break. Is Gill now just coaching to coach or is he coaching to WIN?
- There has been no line combinations that last for more than 4-5 shifts. It's easy to say that anyone should be able to play with anyone, but I would think in the OHL, your best players should be playing with your best players. Not very often do you see a team that is in the top half of the Conference shuffle the lines and try to have 4 "even" lines to try and win.
- There is no emotion from behind the bench to lead the charges (there rarely has been) and the team seems to be playing like that as well.
- There has been no line matching whatsoever (I watched Kitchener match lines in OS with the Attack having the last change).
- The Defence ALL seem to be playing an offensive style (rushing the puck into the offensive zone) even if their skill set does not show that they can successfully accomplish it.
- The Goaltending, expectedly has returned to where it once was - underwhelming. Hard to put blame on two 17 year olds however. With the talent that this team had coming out of training camp one only can wonder why there wasn't an experienced "tender" brought in to be the backbone of stability in goal, while working with and teaching a young 17 year old partner.

So, moving forward into the New Year it is quite certain that this Attack team will look different in a short two weeks. I may be alone in thinking this but I would only hope that DD after receiving multiple high draft picks in return for our top players (Suzuki, Phillips, Hancock, Durzi) will immediately flip a couple of them for -
1. A veteran starting Goalie that can keep this team afloat throughout the remainder of this season and next.
2. A top 99 Forward that will be an offensive OA next season.

It will be sad to see this talented group dismantled in the days ahead, we can only trust that the decisions made by DD and management will not have a lasting uncertainty of the success of this storied franchise!

 

[Noofgoof]

Name the OHL teams that have lost more players with junior eligibilty left (not OA years) than London over the last 10-15 years.

Ill await the answer. Thou I doubt it comes

The evidence kinda goes against yoir claim that Suzuki would be more likely returned if he played for London but dont let facts get in the way.

Suzuki on Londons roster or anywhere else is a super longshot to return in spite of your thoughts on a little surprised to retrun to LK but a lot elsewhere. #s suggest the exact opposite but buy into the hater hype lol.
Again Ill await your answer on who has had more kids go pro early than London. You will be hard pressed to find one

All I am saying I’d be sure to cover that aspect if it was to happen.. If I was Montreal and Suzuki could return to OS next year or return to London with the best coach in junior hockey and play in front of the biggest fan base with the most exposure when hes not the biggest guy in the world and can save a year of control which option would be better..I personally feel he could still learn some things from this league especially from a good coach unlike the one we have here in the sound

 

[OMG67]

All I am saying I’d be sure to cover that aspect if it was to happen.. If I was Montreal and Suzuki could return to OS next year or return to London with the best coach in junior hockey and play in front of the biggest fan base with the most exposure when hes not the biggest guy in the world and can save a year of control which option would be better..I personally feel he could still learn some things from this league especially from a good coach unlike the one we have here in the sound

All we are saying is he can do all those things in the AHL where Montreal has much more control.

 

[Noofgoof]

All we are saying is he can do all those things in the AHL where Montreal has much more control.

And if he does Im sure it wouldnt matter if they tacted on 2 conditional picks or 8 ... either way they need to cover that basis and have some kind of condition in there if for some crazy unknown reason he got sent back. Im not actually saying 8 picks just hypothetically it wouldnt matter how many if they are that sure hes not coming back