Overrated And Underrated Hockey Players
- Thread starter GlitchMarner
- Start date
Hawerchuk for whatever reason wasn't on NHL's top 100 while clearly inferior players(not just from the o6 era) were so I'm gonna go with him.
No idea about the HOH top 100, new to these forums so I didn't bother with arguing about it, I also don't think I have the Patience to drum up 100 players, maybe top 10 or 20 is the max I'd do.
No idea about the HOH top 100, new to these forums so I didn't bother with arguing about it, I also don't think I have the Patience to drum up 100 players, maybe top 10 or 20 is the max I'd do.
BenchBrawl
Registered User
- Jul 26, 2010
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Any player who played before the 40s is underrated.
The most underrated of all is no doubt Frank Nighbor.A real superstar in his era as well as the cornerstone of a dynasty.If the Ottawa franchise had stuck around his name would be bigger today.Pretty sure 99% of people living in Ottawa has no clue who he is.
The most underrated of all is no doubt Frank Nighbor.A real superstar in his era as well as the cornerstone of a dynasty.If the Ottawa franchise had stuck around his name would be bigger today.Pretty sure 99% of people living in Ottawa has no clue who he is.
Nick Hansen
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- Sep 28, 2017
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Overrated: Scott Niedermayer has had his reputation balooned a bit too much because of team achievements. Really good player but not as great as his reputation would have you believe. And as someone else on here pointed out - was he ever the best defenseman on his team?
Underrated: I find Marcel Dionne always gets forgotten in the mix of all the great 70's and 80's players. Did you know he beat Gretzky for the Art Ross in 79/80? Sure, NHL rookie Gretzky but he also beat Lafleur, Trottier and Gil Perreault. Pretty impressive.
I understand the lack of playoffs is what does it, though.
Underrated: I find Marcel Dionne always gets forgotten in the mix of all the great 70's and 80's players. Did you know he beat Gretzky for the Art Ross in 79/80? Sure, NHL rookie Gretzky but he also beat Lafleur, Trottier and Gil Perreault. Pretty impressive.
I understand the lack of playoffs is what does it, though.
Overrated is probably Peter Forsberg (but he's still pretty damn great). I feel injuries really took away from achieving the kind of greatness people attribute to him. Then again, it was clearly in him and he showed it plenty all things considered so maybe I'm wrong to call him overrated
Underrated.... God I dunno, Sergei Zubov maybe? Brian Rafalski. I'm too young to remember anything before the Gretzky era but I'll throw Bernie Parent out there as well. For all his accomplishments, you never really hear in the talk of great goalies, at least on this site
Underrated.... God I dunno, Sergei Zubov maybe? Brian Rafalski. I'm too young to remember anything before the Gretzky era but I'll throw Bernie Parent out there as well. For all his accomplishments, you never really hear in the talk of great goalies, at least on this site
The Panther
Registered User
I guess by "overrated" and "underrated", we are implying "by knowledgeable fans who respect the history of the game"...?
Maybe Phil Esposito is under-rated recently...? I feel like when I was a kid (late-80s, early-90s) his name came up a lot, and it was usually "Bobby Orr and Phil Esposito" as a tandem. But today, he seems to be overlooked a lot, and the fact that his scoring dominance was greater than Mario Lemieux's in his prime doesn't impress anyone. Now, I'm not saying Esposito was one of the truly elite greats, and I think it's well established that he wasn't a 'complete' player, etc., but when you're outscoring the opposition by the insane levels he was from 1968 to 1975, and winning Cups and MVPs, you deserve more respect.
I agree with the Niedermayer choice (above) as a bit over-rated by the hockey media, especially. He was a superb skater and a very impressive player, but late in his career the hockey media went a bit overboard trying to make him out to be the second-coming of Ray Bourque or Nick Lidstrom.
I feel like Paul Kariya might have gotten the Esposito treatment and been under-rated lately... however, I was happy to see him make the Hall of Fame. His mid- and late-career, esp. two seasons in Nashville, tend to be ignored.
Makarov is probably under-rated in North America, but that's sort of understandable.
Another Soviet whose name I never hear talked about anymore is Tretiak. If we'd asked people in about 1989 who the greatest goaltender of all time is, he might have won the poll.
Maybe Phil Esposito is under-rated recently...? I feel like when I was a kid (late-80s, early-90s) his name came up a lot, and it was usually "Bobby Orr and Phil Esposito" as a tandem. But today, he seems to be overlooked a lot, and the fact that his scoring dominance was greater than Mario Lemieux's in his prime doesn't impress anyone. Now, I'm not saying Esposito was one of the truly elite greats, and I think it's well established that he wasn't a 'complete' player, etc., but when you're outscoring the opposition by the insane levels he was from 1968 to 1975, and winning Cups and MVPs, you deserve more respect.
I agree with the Niedermayer choice (above) as a bit over-rated by the hockey media, especially. He was a superb skater and a very impressive player, but late in his career the hockey media went a bit overboard trying to make him out to be the second-coming of Ray Bourque or Nick Lidstrom.
I feel like Paul Kariya might have gotten the Esposito treatment and been under-rated lately... however, I was happy to see him make the Hall of Fame. His mid- and late-career, esp. two seasons in Nashville, tend to be ignored.
Makarov is probably under-rated in North America, but that's sort of understandable.
Another Soviet whose name I never hear talked about anymore is Tretiak. If we'd asked people in about 1989 who the greatest goaltender of all time is, he might have won the poll.
DannyGallivan
Your world frightens and confuses me
Exactly. Hawerchuk deserved to be in the top 100 (ahead of Denis Savard at least). Even crazier was the absense of Malkin from that list.
DannyGallivan
Your world frightens and confuses me
As far as Paul Kariya is concerned, he is the victim of circumstance. He was on his way to a probable Hart Trophy when Suter cross checked him in the face, breaking his jaw and giving him a massive concussion. That not only cost him his best season, but perhaps cost Canada a Gold medal in Nagano. From there, he had difficulty staying healthy. Plus, he played his prime with absolutely no help whatsoever in Anaheim until Selanne showed up.
Man, Kariya was ripped off royally in terms of his legacy. I think he would have been a shoe-in for top 100 of all time, and was certainly one of the top three or four forwards in his healthy prime.
BigBadBruins7708
Registered User
strongly agree with both here.
Niedermayer gets elevated way beyond his actual skill/accomplishment level because he was luck enough to spend 15 years next to Scott Stevens and Chris Pronger
DannyGallivan
Your world frightens and confuses me
I agree with you. Joe Sakic was "the man" in Colorado, and was not given enough credit as the best player on the Avalanche. And for all his detractors, a healthy Lindros was simply better than a healthy Forsberg. That's more of a reflection of how good Lindros and Sakic were, certainly no knock against Forsberg.
BigBadBruins7708
Registered User
agree on Espo.
5x Ross, 6 straight Rockets, 2 Harts
First in history to:
score 60 goals
score 70 goals
score 150 points
score 1000 points in a 10 year span
he retired with just about every scoring record you could have, and has a long list of scoring 1sts
His problem is he didnt hold the records for long. There wasnt this passage of time where the legend could be built up.
His legend suffered greatly when only 5-10 years later and Gretzky came through and re-wrote the history books.
DannyGallivan
Your world frightens and confuses me
Espo was my first favorite player as a kid (before Guy Lafleur). I picked him over Orr as my hockey idol.
VanIslander
A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Glenn Hall is underrated. When i was young in the seventies it was an open question who was the greatest goalie ever between Plante, Sawchuk and Hall. The French Canadian and Canadian franchise Canadiens great Plante has in recent decades inched ahead of the other two.
I am overwhelmed by the staggering number of 1st & 2nd team all-star selections Hall had during an era with Plante, Sawchuk and Bower putting up hhof careers. HALL & HASEK ought to be discussed in the same breath in terms of all-time greatest regular season performances for non-dynasty clubs, carrying their teams without the sort of help other topend goalies had.
I am overwhelmed by the staggering number of 1st & 2nd team all-star selections Hall had during an era with Plante, Sawchuk and Bower putting up hhof careers. HALL & HASEK ought to be discussed in the same breath in terms of all-time greatest regular season performances for non-dynasty clubs, carrying their teams without the sort of help other topend goalies had.
I mean I like Savard and think he should be on there aswell, but there's ALOT of players that don't deserve to be on that list.
Glen Hall is one for sure, he did used to be mentioned quite highly back in the day and no seems forgotten. Read numerous hockey books when I grew up in the 70's and he was included in many of them.
GMR
Registered User
Esposito seems way underrated on this forum. I have him behind only Gretzky and Lemieux at center, but here, he's seemingly behind four or five other players besides those two.
Overrated would be Toews, but he's not that highly considered on this forum. Just overrated in the hockey media circles.
Overrated would be Toews, but he's not that highly considered on this forum. Just overrated in the hockey media circles.
- Feb 10, 2010
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Gordie Howe is massively underrated on this forum. 6 time Hart winner, 12 time nominee, all-time adjusted goals leader with other-worldly longevity. Putting him below Lemieux is bordering on absurd.
Conversely, Lemieux is massively overrated. He seems to benefit from extrapolations as if they are comparable to the things Wayne Gretzky actually did. This is a uniquely illogical thought process in hockey fandom - brought on by homers and not sufficiently rejected by rational fans. It needs to die a quick death. Lemieux also seems to benefit from bizarrely stupid statements like "he didn't even train before coming back" or "he had a bad back" or "look how great he was for one half season during a 5 year stretch outside of which he did nothing."
Joe Sakic's peak is underrated IMO. He was putting up Jagr's points while being a Selke caliber player.
Echo Phil Esposito being generally underrated. His goal scoring was off the charts at the time. His greatest season - specifically in terms of offensive production - is top 6 of all time IMO - yes, better than all but 3-4 of Gretzky's best. Then you got Lemieux's 199 point season and then Espo.
Conversely, Lemieux is massively overrated. He seems to benefit from extrapolations as if they are comparable to the things Wayne Gretzky actually did. This is a uniquely illogical thought process in hockey fandom - brought on by homers and not sufficiently rejected by rational fans. It needs to die a quick death. Lemieux also seems to benefit from bizarrely stupid statements like "he didn't even train before coming back" or "he had a bad back" or "look how great he was for one half season during a 5 year stretch outside of which he did nothing."
Joe Sakic's peak is underrated IMO. He was putting up Jagr's points while being a Selke caliber player.
Echo Phil Esposito being generally underrated. His goal scoring was off the charts at the time. His greatest season - specifically in terms of offensive production - is top 6 of all time IMO - yes, better than all but 3-4 of Gretzky's best. Then you got Lemieux's 199 point season and then Espo.
MXD
Original #4
- Oct 27, 2005
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While I don't actually agree (massively? Howe is mostly ranked #3, and nearly unanimously 3rd if we disregard the Penguins fanbase; Lemieux is mostly ranked #4, and nearly unanimously 4th if we disregrd the Penguins fanbase...), this take is extremely refreshing, considering the nonsense we've been subjected to recently.
- Feb 10, 2010
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Thanks.
I put Howe 2nd, and I am pretty firm on it.
Orr's peak is amazing - arguably the highest ever - but he is overrated as well IMO. For one, playing for only 8.5 seasons is a massive glaring weakness. Gordie Howe has zero massive glaring weaknesses. Orr also - great as he was - only won 3 Harts and was never 2nd. If he was so amazing that 8.5 of his seasons are worth more than 20 of Howe's, then why didn't the voters in his day recognize that and award him 5-6 Harts? Again, they had multiple players ahead of him for all but 3 years. And yet in hindsight we act as if those 3rd place years were so far above and beyond virtually every other player in history. I don't know how folks reconcile those things.
- Feb 10, 2010
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GlitchMarner
Typical malevolent, devious & vile Maple Leafs fan
This is reminiscent of a more recent Penguin. They do say history repeats itself.
MXD
Original #4
- Oct 27, 2005
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...By not take Hart voting results at face value for a D-Men. They tend to not get quite the support they should be having in Hart voting. At least, past WWII.
As a comparison, take Bobby Clarke and Doug Harvey. Clarke has significantly better Hart voting results, yet I rarely see anyone ranking Clarke over Harvey. Actually, I don't think I saw anyone do so.
Hart has always been a poor award not properly defined.
Name another defenceman with an Art Ross.
- Feb 10, 2010
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MXD
Original #4
- Oct 27, 2005
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It's not proper to Clarke -- it's just that it's the first comparison that came to mind to explain that we shouldn't use Hart voting results to compare a D-Men with a forward, unless we're willing to weigh said results completely differently.
If only I could find the Hart Shares Table, you'd see my point. I mean... Jamie Benn's Hart voting results look better than Erik Karlsson, and (hopefully!!!) no one ranks Benn ahead of Karlsson.
