Ovechkin Wins Eighth Career Rocket Richard Trophy

[ThatAvsGamer]

Weak competition?? WTF?

Are you guys high on something?

The level of competition is the highest is has ever been. There are more professional players than ever before.

When no one else in his era is even close to his level, it just shows you how completely dominant he has been

No matter the goalie gear, rule enforcement changes, and everyone knowing exactly who Ovechkin is, he still has found a way to dominate the league, even at 33.

Every single team, goalie and defenseman on the planet has pretty much endless supply of video on Ovechkin from Youtube alone, and still they can't stop him.

Every single AHL-call-up knows who he is and how he plays, and still he gets it done.

Literally scores from the same spot for 90% of his goals and still can't be stopped.


"competition is weak". No he's just that much better than his peers at goal scoring.

 

[God King Fudge]

Genuinely curious: what do you hate about him? He's super involved in the community, has made working with kids with special needs one of his top priorities, genuinely loves playing the game of hockey and brings a fun personality to the sport, etc. I can understand hating Tom Wilson if he's not on your team but I don't really get the Ovechkin hate.

Nothing personal to the man. I'm sure he's a great guy off the ice. Just hate the player. Hate the team. Hate everything about them. Old SE division feelings.

 

[Absolut]

Nothing personal to the man. I'm sure he's a great guy off the ice. Just hate the player. Hate the team. Hate everything about them. Old SE division feelings.

Lol, people don't get it sometimes. It's just hockey fandom, nothing personal. Ovie is an awesome guy, but if you are a fan of a rival team, he's a selfish, dirty, lazy, horrible individual that you love to hate.

 

[filinski77]

Lol, people don't get it sometimes. It's just hockey fandom, nothing personal. Ovie is an awesome guy, but if you are a fan of a rival team, he's a selfish, dirty, lazy, horrible individual that you love to hate.

This 100%. As a Caps fan, I hate Crosby as a player. As a Canadian, I love him when Olympics come around, and I'd love to meet him one day, as I am sure he's an amazing person.

 

[GlitchMarner]

Since Ovechkin's rookie season, the leading goal scorers in the NHL are:

1. Ovechkin
2. Crosby
3. Staal
4. Marleau
5. Stamkos
6. Malkin
7. Nash
8. Iginla
9. Vanek
10. Perry


Between 1990-1991 and 2003-2004, the top goal scorers were:

1. Hull
2. Jagr
3. Shanahan
4. Sakic
5. Bondra
6. Sundin
7. Robitaille
8. Selanne
9. Mogilny
10. Roenick


If you exclude the leaders (Ovechkin and Hull), both groups have some potent goal scorers as far as peak goal scoring ability is concerned:


Crosby and Stamkos: Each led NHL in goals twice. Stamkos has been in the top two in goals five times and was fourth in goals this season.

Malkin: Top five in goals three times.

Nash: Rocket Richard winner. Top five in goals three times.

Iginla: Two time Rocket Richard winner. Top three in goals four times.

Perry: Rocket Richard winner, second in NHL in goals in 2014.


____________________________


Jagr: Second in goals four times; top five in goals six times.

Sakic: 54 goals in 2001 (second in NHL)

Bondra: Led NHL in goals twice; top five in goals four times.

Selanne: Led NHL in goals three times; top five in goals five times.

Mogilny: Led NHL in goals in '93; top three in goals twice.


Perhaps the high end threat-level from the latter group is higher, but the former group has numerous goal scoring accomplishments. Of course, Bure doesn't qualify because of his injuries. At his best, he certainly could have challenged Ovechkin in goal scoring in at least two or three of his Rocket winning seasons.

 

[JasonRoseEh]

A lot of people here struggle with the concept of relativity I've noticed. It's irrelevant how many goals are being scored. Some guy said Ovechkin's competition has been weak, after which several users starts driveling about goals per game, and other i numbers. That has nothing to do with the actual level of competition.

For instance; Auston Matthews is tougher competition than Chechoo. That's the point made. NHL had a down period in talent the past 15 years despite what modern fans believe. Before McDavid, Laine, Matthews, Eichel, and what not entered the league.

In the early 90's, you had guys like Lemieux, Hull, Bure, Selanne, Mogilny in the top tier, and hall of fame goalscorers like Robitaille, Andreychuck, Shanahan, Gartner, Bondra, Neely, LeClair , Kariya, in the next. On top of this guys like Yzerman, Roenick, LaFontaine, Fedorov, Lindros, Jagr, Turgeon, Sakic, Tkachuk etc were hovering within the vicinity of the top.

During Ovie's prime, the goal scoring competition has been weaker. That's why I feel his two last Arts are amongst the most impressive.

Edit: To answer the poster above. Ovie's 8 rockets don't make the competition worse. But it was worse. However, it's the combination of Ovie's goals per game over this relative low scoring era, his 8 Rockets, and his longevity, which makes me think (once he has gotten higher up on the all time goals scored list) he's probably the best of all time.

Competition is irrelevant and if that's your argument you can't hold it just to goal scoring, what you're arguing is that competitively the league is somehow lessened during Ovechkin's era which just isn't true. The league is more talented than ever and deeper than ever and goal scoring is harder than ever.

No player in history is only just competing nightly against a handful of guys in relation to scoring goals, they compete against an entire league and in previous era's it was simple easier to score.

 

[JasonRoseEh]

Literally scores from the same spot for 90% of his goals and still can't be stopped.


"competition is weak". No he's just that much better than his peers at goal scoring.

Ovechkin has scored roughly 30% of his goals from the left circle, definitely not 90%. It's moreso now though, sure.

 

[Beukeboom]

Competition is irrelevant and if that's your argument you can't hold it just to goal scoring, what you're arguing is that competitively the league is somehow lessened during Ovechkin's era which just isn't true. The league is more talented than ever and deeper than ever and goal scoring is harder than ever.

No player in history is only just competing nightly against a handful of guys in relation to scoring goals, they compete against an entire league and in previous era's it was simple easier to score.

How exactly has Ovechkin been competing with Ryan Reaves, Tobias Reider, and Johan Larsson for the Rocket?

There were more great goalscorers in the 90's, hence competing for the Rocket was tougher. Top end talent, compete against top end talent for the trophies. It's irrelevant how good a forth line is, since all goalscorers playing atm, face the same players.

Ovie's most remarkable feat, is his goal average in this low end scoring environment. That's where current GPG and similar stats come in handy.

 

[Hippasus]

Competition is irrelevant and if that's your argument you can't hold it just to goal scoring, what you're arguing is that competitively the league is somehow lessened during Ovechkin's era which just isn't true. The league is more talented than ever and deeper than ever and goal scoring is harder than ever.

No player in history is only just competing nightly against a handful of guys in relation to scoring goals, they compete against an entire league and in previous era's it was simple easier to score.

About what are you talking? One can isolate goal scoring or pretty much any skill in regards to quality of competition. Goal scoring is one of the most determinate skills since it is measurable through statistics. If quality of competition is high, one would see lots of goals scored.

 

[bar1]

About what are you talking? One can isolate goal scoring or pretty much any skill in regards to quality of competition. Goal scoring is one of the most determinate skills since it is measurable through statistics. If quality of competition is high, one would see lots of goals scored.

Except there are number of factors that effect the goal scoring. The talent and competition today is the most toughest ever. Scoring a goal is harder than ever and that makes Ovechkin ever greater.

Everyone in todays NHL is faster and stronger. That's undeniable.

 

[JasonRoseEh]

About what are you talking? One can isolate goal scoring or pretty much any skill in regards to quality of competition. Goal scoring is one of the most determinate skills since it is measurable through statistics. If quality of competition is high, one would see lots of goals scored.

There are just so many factors outside of direct competition that matter so much more to goal scoring as the poster above me addressed. Ovechkin scoring less or more has nothing to do with the other goal scorers in the league and everything to do with the style of game played and how good the goaltending is in the modern NHL.

How exactly has Ovechkin been competing with Ryan Reaves, Tobias Reider, and Johan Larsson for the Rocket?

There were more great goalscorers in the 90's, hence competing for the Rocket was tougher. Top end talent, compete against top end talent for the trophies. It's irrelevant how good a forth line is, since all goalscorers playing atm, face the same players.

Ovie's most remarkable feat, is his goal average in this low end scoring environment. That's where current GPG and similar stats come in handy.

Because you compete against every player in the league who scores goals. Ovechkin doesn't compete directly against any of them, he's competing against modern NHL defenses and modern NHL goaltenders, he's not competing with Leon Draisatl (sp) other than 2 games a year. Does that makes sense? The margins to win the Rocket Richard in the modern NHL are the slimmest in history, if anything it's more competitive than ever directly because it's HARDER to score than ever.

Were there more great goalscorers in the 80's/90's or was it just far easier to score? I know that later is true, I guess the former is up to opinion.

 

[Hippasus]

There are just so many factors outside of direct competition that matter so much more to goal scoring as the poster above me addressed. Ovechkin scoring less or more has nothing to do with the other goal scorers in the league and everything to do with the style of game played and how good the goaltending is in the modern NHL.

Because you compete against every player in the league who scores goals. Ovechkin doesn't compete directly against any of them, he's competing against modern NHL defenses and modern NHL goaltenders, he's not competing with Leon Draisatl (sp) other than 2 games a year. Does that makes sense? The margins to win the Rocket Richard in the modern NHL are the slimmest in history, if anything it's more competitive than ever directly because it's HARDER to score than ever.

Were there more great goalscorers in the 80's/90's or was it just far easier to score? I know that later is true, I guess the former is up to opinion.

You are right that there are other factors to consider than just raw stats, such as defense and goaltending levels of development. But goal scoring is a special skill, which is so fundamental to the game that one can use goal stats to determine conclusions. For instance, if there are suddenly tons of high goal scorers, defense and-or goaltending might be suspect, or Esposito changed the game because of his ability to rack-up garbage goals, or Ovechkin changed the game since he was effectively able to capitalize on new stick technology, or Ovechkin changed the game because he rocked competition between peers whilst there was a decent number of high quality goal scorers in the league during his career so far. I think all these things are true and can be largely determined by investigating goal statistics.

 

[Khomutov]

Peak Kovalchuk, Heatley and Stamkos were very good and dangerous goal scorers. Just couldn't do it for such a long time like Ovechkin.

 

[Hippasus]

Except there are number of factors that effect the goal scoring. The talent and competition today is the most toughest ever. Scoring a goal is harder than ever and that makes Ovechkin ever greater.

Everyone in todays NHL is faster and stronger. That's undeniable.

Consider the number of teams and how many forward lines there are (31 teams rolling four lines vs. 6 teams rolling three lines). This offsets your claim(s) big-time.

 

[Eisen]

That doesn't make sense, sorry. Yes, they all face the same players. Better defensive players than in the 80s and 90s. Much better goaltending. Other players would be scoring at a higher rates had they played in a different era. McDavid, Kane and Kucherov are wizards. They'd be scoring 60+ goals each in the 80s. Just for reference:

Jari Kurri won in 1986 with 68 goals (Gretzky had 215 points).
Gretzky won with 62 in 1987. With Tim Kerr in 2nd.
Mario with 70 in 1988. With Craig Simpson in 2nd.
Mario won again in 1989. With Bernie Nichols in 2nd.
Brett Hull won in 1990. With Stevie Y in 2nd (10 goals behind).
Brett Hull won again in 1991. With a huge gap between him and a 2nd place Theo Fleury.

The fact that Ovechkin has been able to consistently score like he does is insane. It doesn't mean the competition is weaker. It means that he's a unique player. What makes him unique is a combination of raw physical strength, durability, mental toughness and high-end skill. His competition kept changing throughout the years, and he kept winning. It makes it more impressive, not less.

I disagree with them facing much better players. There are no players at the moment like Roy, Hasek, Lidstrom, Bourque, Chelios. I'd be hard pressed to find a guy like Leetch right now. Karlsson and Burns might be close.
For the record, I do believe the competition is weaker but also that Ovy is a special player.

 

[JasonRoseEh]

I disagree with them facing much better players. There are no players at the moment like Roy, Hasek, Lidstrom, Bourque, Chelios. I'd be hard pressed to find a guy like Leetch right now. Karlsson and Burns might be close.
For the record, I do believe the competition is weaker but also that Ovy is a special player.

Listen Chelios and Leetch were great but they'd be hard pressed to play in today's modern NHL. They're small, slow and later in the their careers were getting rocked by bigger forwards. Got I remember Ovechkin running over Chelios a few times, namely in the Olympics and Chelly retired pretty much the next year.

Goaltending is vastly superior today than it's ever been on average. Sure you named 2 all time greats but 80% of the league were stiffs in net in the 80's.

I think you need to take the nostalgia goggles off a bit here.

 

[Eisen]

Listen Chelios and Leetch were great but they'd be hard pressed to play in today's modern NHL. They're small, slow and later in the their careers were getting rocked by bigger forwards. Got I remember Ovechkin running over Chelios a few times, namely in the Olympics and Chelly retired pretty much the next year.

Goaltending is vastly superior today than it's ever been on average. Sure you named 2 all time greats but 80% of the league were stiffs in net in the 80's.

I think you need to take the nostalgia goggles off a bit here.

Well, I don't like that they are called stiffs, they made what they could with the equipment that was given to them. They were the cream of the crop. But I was more referring to the 90s. And Ovechkin is a special player, a better goalscorer than anyone we had in the 90s (peak still goes to Lemieux). And you said it yourself, Chelios retired soon after Ovechkin came to the league, but we shouldn't forget that the Chelios that you saw that was rocked by Ovechkin was already well in his 40s. Size doesn't matter that much anyway, if anything, smallish players have an advantage now.
I'll gladly admit that mentioning Leetch was a bit of a hyperbole. But he, as well as Bourque, Lidstrom and Chelios were far from slow in their prime. I'm not so sure about small either, Bourque was 100kg, Chelios 87kg. Both were 6 footers. That's not small enough to be a disadvantage. For most defenders, 6ft seems to be a magic number.

 

[Fantomas]

Listen Chelios and Leetch were great but they'd be hard pressed to play in today's modern NHL.

wtf

 

[Fantomas]

I disagree with them facing much better players. There are no players at the moment like Roy, Hasek, Lidstrom, Bourque, Chelios. I'd be hard pressed to find a guy like Leetch right now. Karlsson and Burns might be close.
For the record, I do believe the competition is weaker but also that Ovy is a special player.

Karlsson is probably better than Leetch. Chelios is a little overrated. Bourque and Lidstrom were special, granted.

 

[illpucks]

Peak Kovalchuk, Heatley and Stamkos were very good and dangerous goal scorers. Just couldn't do it for such a long time like Ovechkin.

Stamkos has 45 goals this year. His 3rd best season in his career...

 

[AD1066]

I disagree with them facing much better players. There are no players at the moment like Roy, Hasek, Lidstrom, Bourque, Chelios. I'd be hard pressed to find a guy like Leetch right now. Karlsson and Burns might be close.
For the record, I do believe the competition is weaker but also that Ovy is a special player.

I don't really follow the goalie argument. Those two are legends of the game, but due to the evolution of the position and the limitations of their equipment at the time, you were still more likely to score on a shot taken against Roy or Hasek than the average goalie today.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Literally scores from the same spot for 90% of his goals...

That is not remotely accurate.

 

[Fantomas]

That is not remotely accurate.

Ovechkin would be a better player if he made scoring look HARDER.

 

[Eisen]

I don't really follow the goalie argument. Those two are legends of the game, but due to the evolution of the position and the limitations of their equipment at the time, you were still more likely to score on a shot taken against Roy or Hasek than the average goalie today.

Hasek, for instance, had save percentages of around and over .930 in his prime. Roy around .920. A guy like Cujo was hovering around .910. That's not a whole lot of goals more per season.

 

[filinski77]

Hasek, for instance, had save percentages of around and over .930 in his prime. Roy around .920. A guy like Cujo was hovering around .910. That's not a whole lot of goals more per season.

Exactly. Since 2005/2006 (14 years), there have been 140 goalies who had .920 save% or higher and played minimum 30 games

From 1990/1991 (Haseks first season) to 2003/2004 (14 years), there were 47 goalies who had .920 save% or higher

140 vs 41

Drop that to 10 games minimum for the 90's time frame, and only 68 goalies fit the script. People can talk about there not being as much high end talent or whatever nowadays, but it was just much easier for high-end players back then to score than it is today.