Ovechkin Wins Eighth Career Rocket Richard Trophy

[third man in]

There's stats and then there's watching the games, so there's that too.

I think he's saying even in a so called slump, Ovie still puts up respectable numbers.

 

[JasonRoseEh]

I think he's saying even in a so called slump, Ovie still puts up respectable numbers.

Sure but there was definitely a tone to as if I'm wrong, which I'm not. He scored 2 goals in each Tampa game (the 2 games he played extremely well in) and one goal in the other 12. He picked up a bunch of secondaries and really wasn't driving play at all during the stretch. Defensively he's mostly been upright in which I can only assume he's been conserving energy.

Like I'm the biggest Ovi fan on this board so if I tell you he hasn't been good, he hasn't been very good. I'm not doubting he'll turn it up on game 1 but the only reason the Rocket Richard race was remotely close was because Ovechkin hadn't been scoring much over the past 20 games.

 

[WingsFan95]

How can he not be a Top 5 forward all-time?

I mean, career wise he can pass Lemieux and Howe. And in terms of dominance it really is only Gretzky that's ahead.

 

[Nordique]

He is the greatest goal scorer of all time.

In the 15 years since he entered the league, he's won it 8 times...Bobby Hull won it 7 times fwiw. I think Ovie could win it 10 times given his level of performance and age.

who else has won it during the Ovechkin era?

Crosby x2
Stamkos x2
Cheechoo
Lecavalier
Perry

That is pretty stiff competition.

 

[discobob]

Just rename the trophy:

The Rocket O'Richard Trophy

 

[Goalie_Bob]

He is the greatest goal scorer of all time.

In the 15 years since he entered the league, he's won it 8 times...Bobby Hull won it 7 times fwiw. I think Ovie could win it 10 times given his level of performance and age.

who else has won it during the Ovechkin era?

Crosby x2
Stamkos x2
Cheechoo
Lecavalier
Perry

That is pretty stiff competition.

Actually, it isn't. That list just shows how suspect elite goal scoring has been since Ovie came into the league. To put it another way:

Crosby: Two seasons of 40+ goals
Stamkos: Five seasons of 40+ goals
Cheechoo: One season of 40+ goals
Lecavalier: Two seasons of 40+ goals
Corey Perry: Two seasons of 40+ goals

Stamkos is the only one I would consider an elite goal scorer.

I consider Ovie to be one of the best goalscorers of all time, top 5 easily, but his competition for the Richard Trophy has been suspect at best. He hasn't had any consistent competition. Especially over the past 6-7 years.

Should be interesting to see if some of the new young guns can step up to the plate and challenge Ovie.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

Actually, it isn't. That list just shows how suspect elite goal scoring has been since Ovie came into the league. To put it another way:

Crosby: Two seasons of 40+ goals
Stamkos: Five seasons of 40+ goals
Cheechoo: One season of 40+ goals
Lecavalier: Two seasons of 40+ goals
Corey Perry: Two seasons of 40+ goals

Stamkos is the only one I would consider an elite goal scorer.

I consider Ovie to be one of the best goalscorers of all time, top 5 easily, but his competition for the Richard Trophy has been suspect at best. He hasn't had any consistent competition. Especially over the past 6-7 years.

Should be interesting to see if some of the new young guns can step up to the plate and challenge Ovie.

True. That's weak competition. I never knew others were that bad.

 

[JasonRoseEh]

Actually, it isn't. That list just shows how suspect elite goal scoring has been since Ovie came into the league. To put it another way:

Crosby: Two seasons of 40+ goals
Stamkos: Five seasons of 40+ goals
Cheechoo: One season of 40+ goals
Lecavalier: Two seasons of 40+ goals
Corey Perry: Two seasons of 40+ goals

Stamkos is the only one I would consider an elite goal scorer.

I consider Ovie to be one of the best goalscorers of all time, top 5 easily, but his competition for the Richard Trophy has been suspect at best. He hasn't had any consistent competition. Especially over the past 6-7 years.

Should be interesting to see if some of the new young guns can step up to the plate and challenge Ovie.

Players are more talented on the whole, your point regarding competition is meaningless, players aren't competing against each other nightly because it's a competition against the league/different teams every night and the truth is scoring is down. That has nothing to do with the players and everything to do with rule changes and goalie equipment. Bossy wouldn't get 30 in today's NHL and I stand by that.

 

[Tofveve]

Phenomenal. Love it.

 

[Video Nasty]

Actually, it isn't. That list just shows how suspect elite goal scoring has been since Ovie came into the league. To put it another way:

Crosby: Two seasons of 40+ goals
Stamkos: Five seasons of 40+ goals
Cheechoo: One season of 40+ goals
Lecavalier: Two seasons of 40+ goals
Corey Perry: Two seasons of 40+ goals

Stamkos is the only one I would consider an elite goal scorer.

I consider Ovie to be one of the best goalscorers of all time, top 5 easily, but his competition for the Richard Trophy has been suspect at best. He hasn't had any consistent competition. Especially over the past 6-7 years.

Should be interesting to see if some of the new young guns can step up to the plate and challenge Ovie.

Thank you for saying this. I agree that Ovechkin is a top 5 all time goal scorer but people don’t talk enough about how weak his competition usually is for the Rocket.

Of course, it is in no way his fault. He’s dealt the hand he is dealt and in this case, it’s a good hand. But too often, some lose their minds over the number of his Rockets and then poo poo other great goal scorers who didn’t lead in goals because some guys named Gretzky and Lemieux were playing during their time.

 

[Absolut]

Thank you for saying this. I agree that Ovechkin is a top 5 all time goal scorer but people don’t talk enough about how weak his competition usually is for the Rocket.

You are looking at it backwards.

The competition is not weak. Guys trying to prevent the goals from being scored are much better. Both in the net, and on defense. They are phenomenal athletes. The days of best skaters not wanting to play D in youth hockey are gone. Kids start specializing at 6-8 years old. Same for goalies. On my kids' teams (10 y.o. and 16 y.o.), the goalies are the biggest and most athletically gifted boys. Wake up and smell the coffee. The skill on offense hasn't gone down. The skill on defensive side of the game has skyrocketed.

 

[Video Nasty]

You are looking at it backwards.

The competition is not weak. Guys trying to prevent the goals from being scored are much better. Both in the net, and on defense. They are phenomenal athletes. The days of best skaters not wanting to play D in youth hockey are gone. Kids start specializing at 6-8 years old. Same for goalies. On my kids' teams (10 y.o. and 16 y.o.), the goalies are the biggest and most athletically gifted boys. Wake up and smell the coffee. The skill on offense hasn't gone done. The skill on defensive side of the game has skyrocketed.

Yeah I know all about individuality and creativity being taught away at an early age these days.

 

[Beukeboom]

You are looking at it backwards.

The competition is not weak. Guys trying to prevent the goals from being scored are much better. Both in the net, and on defense. They are phenomenal athletes. The days of best skaters not wanting to play D in youth hockey are gone. Kids start specializing at 6-8 years old. Same for goalies. On my kids' teams (10 y.o. and 16 y.o.), the goalies are the biggest and most athletically gifted boys. Wake up and smell the coffee. The skill on offense hasn't gone done. The skill on defensive side of the game has skyrocketed.

But all that is irrelevant when comparing his competition? They all face the same players don't they?

In my opinion, his competition has definitely been weaker than in the mid 80's and 90's. But the amount of goals he has scored in this era is amazing (and that is where your rant might come in handy).

Edit: Also the last two Rockets have been during a highly increasing competitive league. So that make them even more impressive than some of his earlier wins.

 

[WesMcCauley]

Thank you for saying this. I agree that Ovechkin is a top 5 all time goal scorer but people don’t talk enough about how weak his competition usually is for the Rocket.

Of course, it is in no way his fault. He’s dealt the hand he is dealt and in this case, it’s a good hand. But too often, some lose their minds over the number of his Rockets and then poo poo other great goal scorers who didn’t lead in goals because some guys named Gretzky and Lemieux were playing during their time.

Or is it because save % has been extremely high in the NHL during his career and Ovechkin is so good that it might look weak because of how dominant he has been?

Ovechkin has played in the era with by far the best goaltending so thats a huge reason for what you call "weak competition". Save % was very low in the late 70s, 80s an early 90s, are you surprised if i tell you most of the top goalscoring seasons happened during that time? All those seasons (1974/75-1993/94) had save % between .873 and .895.

Top two save % seasons in the NHL: 1955-1956(.919) and 1963-1964 (.916).
3rd-10th top save % seasons in the NHL all time are all in Ovechkins time in the NHL. All between .915 and .912 save %.

15 of the top 20 goalies in all time save % are still active. Vokoun and Tim Thomas are also top 20 and they both played most of their career at the same time as Ovechkin. Hasek is 1st and he played three seasons at the same time as Ovechkin. So 18 of the top 20 in all time save % have played at the same time as Ovechkin.
So you can call it weak competition but the fact is that it has been much harder to score a lot of goals in his time in the NHL compared to the 70s-mid 90s.

All time save % leaders:
NHL Goalies ‑ All-Time Save Percentage Leaders

NHL league average save % and goals per game average:
NHL League Averages | Hockey-Reference.com

Most goals in a season:
Most Goals in One Season by NHL Players

 

[LeapOnOver]

This guy really is something to watch. There's not many players that just get me excited about hockey like Ovechkin does. Watching him play against your team and just shaking your head because you thought the goalie got to the post and should have stopped that cross-ice one-timer only to see the instant replay and just shake your head out how goddamn good he is. I'd take all of Mat Barzal's dangles game in and game out and trade them for a chance to see Ovi blast one timers on a regular basis. Dude is all that's good about hockey in one package.

 

[JasonRoseEh]

Thank you for saying this. I agree that Ovechkin is a top 5 all time goal scorer but people don’t talk enough about how weak his competition usually is for the Rocket.

Of course, it is in no way his fault. He’s dealt the hand he is dealt and in this case, it’s a good hand. But too often, some lose their minds over the number of his Rockets and then poo poo other great goal scorers who didn’t lead in goals because some guys named Gretzky and Lemieux were playing during their time.

Because you can't compare totals from then to now, Bossy wouldn't put up 30 in today's game I'm sorry. There are not 5 greater goal scorers in the history of the NHL better than Ovechkin now and nothing supports it. His inevitable march into the elite total levels that are inflated comparatively with todays will make no doubt.

Players aren't worse, they're better.

 

[JasonRoseEh]

But all that is irrelevant when comparing his competition? They all face the same players don't they?

In my opinion, his competition has definitely been weaker than in the mid 80's and 90's. But the amount of goals he has scored in this era is amazing (and that is where your rant might come in handy).

Edit: Also the last two Rockets have been during a highly increasing competitive league. So that make them even more impressive than some of his earlier wins.

The league isn't more competitive, it doesn't suddenly have better players than 5 years ago. Scoring is up because of rule changes and goalie equipment not because Auston Matthews joined the NHL.

Imagine Ovechkin shooting against goalies in the late 70-80's? He'd put up 80 a year.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

I hate the guy but you just can't deny he's one of, if not the best goalscorer of all time.

Genuinely curious: what do you hate about him? He's super involved in the community, has made working with kids with special needs one of his top priorities, genuinely loves playing the game of hockey and brings a fun personality to the sport, etc. I can understand hating Tom Wilson if he's not on your team but I don't really get the Ovechkin hate.

 

[Hzzz]

How many Art Ross Trophies would Ovechkin have if secondary assists did not exist?

 

[FrozenJagrt]

Genuinely curious: what do you hate about him? As a player He's super involved in the community, has made working with kids with special needs one of his top priorities, genuinely loves playing the game of hockey and brings a fun personality to the sport, etc. I can understand hating Tom Wilson if he's not on your team but I don't really get the Ovechkin hate.

I can see how his exuberance would rub people the wrong way. Doesn't bother me personally, he's been my favourite player since his rookie season. But there is definitely a crowd out there that prefers the "act like you've been there before" approach to the game. Couple that with a few questionable hits over the years

 

[Absolut]

But all that is irrelevant when comparing his competition? They all face the same players don't they?

In my opinion, his competition has definitely been weaker than in the mid 80's and 90's. But the amount of goals he has scored in this era is amazing (and that is where your rant might come in handy).

That doesn't make sense, sorry. Yes, they all face the same players. Better defensive players than in the 80s and 90s. Much better goaltending. Other players would be scoring at a higher rates had they played in a different era. McDavid, Kane and Kucherov are wizards. They'd be scoring 60+ goals each in the 80s. Just for reference:

Jari Kurri won in 1986 with 68 goals (Gretzky had 215 points).
Gretzky won with 62 in 1987. With Tim Kerr in 2nd.
Mario with 70 in 1988. With Craig Simpson in 2nd.
Mario won again in 1989. With Bernie Nichols in 2nd.
Brett Hull won in 1990. With Stevie Y in 2nd (10 goals behind).
Brett Hull won again in 1991. With a huge gap between him and a 2nd place Theo Fleury.

The fact that Ovechkin has been able to consistently score like he does is insane. It doesn't mean the competition is weaker. It means that he's a unique player. What makes him unique is a combination of raw physical strength, durability, mental toughness and high-end skill. His competition kept changing throughout the years, and he kept winning. It makes it more impressive, not less.

 

[Beukeboom]

The league isn't more competitive, it doesn't suddenly have better players than 5 years ago. Scoring is up because of rule changes and goalie equipment not because Auston Matthews joined the NHL.

Imagine Ovechkin shooting against goalies in the late 70-80's? He'd put up 80 a year.

A lot of people here struggle with the concept of relativity I've noticed. It's irrelevant how many goals are being scored. Some guy said Ovechkin's competition has been weak, after which several users starts driveling about goals per game, and other i numbers. That has nothing to do with the actual level of competition.

For instance; Auston Matthews is tougher competition than Chechoo. That's the point made. NHL had a down period in talent the past 15 years despite what modern fans believe. Before McDavid, Laine, Matthews, Eichel, and what not entered the league.

In the early 90's, you had guys like Lemieux, Hull, Bure, Selanne, Mogilny in the top tier, and hall of fame goalscorers like Robitaille, Andreychuck, Shanahan, Gartner, Bondra, Neely, LeClair , Kariya, in the next. On top of this guys like Yzerman, Roenick, LaFontaine, Fedorov, Lindros, Jagr, Turgeon, Sakic, Tkachuk etc were hovering within the vicinity of the top.

During Ovie's prime, the goal scoring competition has been weaker. That's why I feel his two last Arts are amongst the most impressive.

Edit: To answer the poster above. Ovie's 8 rockets don't make the competition worse. But it was worse. However, it's the combination of Ovie's goals per game over this relative low scoring era, his 8 Rockets, and his longevity, which makes me think (once he has gotten higher up on the all time goals scored list) he's probably the best of all time.

 

[Absolut]

In the early 90's, you had guys like Lemieux, Hull, Bure, Selanne, Mogilny in the top tier, and hall of fame goalscorers like Robitaille, Andreychuck, Shanahan, Gartner, Bondra, Neely, LeClair , Kariya, in the next. On top of this guys like Yzerman, Roenick, LaFontaine, Fedorov, Lindros, Jagr, Turgeon, Sakic, Tkachuk etc were hovering within the vicinity of the top.

These guys were amazing, no doubt. But here is the flip side. The dead puck era killed a lot of offensive talent in the league. It became devalued. The trend continued for another 20 years. Guys that could have been great did not have a chance to play the free-wheeling game.

Look at offensive talent development now vs. before. I will use Bure and Svechnikov as examples. Bure comes in and does whatever he wants. Plays to his strength at all times. Svechnikov comes in with a huge offensive potential, and is put on a 3rd line to learn the system and the 200 ft game. Svech could have been a 40 goal scorer this year, and looked upon as a great explosive offensive talent. But that's not how young players are developed. So no, you will not get a Hull, Selanne, Mogilny and Bure. They will be playing a responsible two way game, and looking a lot different.

 

[TheGroceryStick]

Most impressive is the era he is doing it in. Every team has a player /players /Goalie that would be considered "tops in the league/special" had they played in past eras.

This league is unreal now , and Ovie is still lighting the lamp.

 

[Muikea Bulju]

Weak competition?? WTF?

Are you guys high on something?

The level of competition is the highest is has ever been. There are more professional players than ever before.

When no one else in his era is even close to his level, it just shows you how completely dominant he has been

No matter the goalie gear, rule enforcement changes, and everyone knowing exactly who Ovechkin is, he still has found a way to dominate the league, even at 33.

Every single team, goalie and defenseman on the planet has pretty much endless supply of video on Ovechkin from Youtube alone, and still they can't stop him.

Every single AHL-call-up knows who he is and how he plays, and still he gets it done.