Ovechkin vs. Kovalchuk

[wilka91*]

Let's take a look at their this season's stats in Russia :

Ilya Kovalchuk (AK Bars)

22 games, 7 goals, 5 assists, 12 points, 26 PIM

Alexander Ovechkin (Dynamo)

25 games, 8 goals, 12 assists, 20 points, 26 PIM

So what does it mean? That Ovechkin will rank 2nd in NHL scoring in his rookie season?

Click to read more...

 

[The True Blue Crew]

lol

 

[Jeff Goldblum]

If so, then Pavel Rosa will walk away with the Rocket Richard Trophy...


So, no. Kovalchuk is a better player right now than Ovechkin. Evgeni Malkin is outscoring Kovalchuk. Now ask...will Malkin rank 3rd in NHL scoring? Kovalchuk is just having issues with his work ethic in Russia. Maybe the coaches are being too lenient with him. I feel once he returns to the NHL, it will be as if he never left.

 

[PanthersRule96]

Let's take a look at their this season's stats in Russia :

Ilya Kovalchuk (AK Bars)

22 games, 7 goals, 5 assists, 12 points, 26 PIM

Alexander Ovechkin (Dynamo)

25 games, 8 goals, 12 assists, 20 points, 26 PIM

So what does it mean? That Ovechkin will rank 2nd in NHL scoring in his rookie season?

This is interesting, especially given AK Bars Kazan has all the NHL talent to surround Kovalchuk. I have not seen Kovalchuk play in Europe obviously, but from looking at his stats and game by game, it seems that some games, he just is invisible on the scoresheet and the next, he breaks out and gets a couple goals.

Now these comparasons have much more validity being in the RSL. I really do think Ovechkin will be a top 25 player in the league in his rookie year, but not 2nd in scoring. He IMO will be the next great NHL superstar. He is absolutely phenomenal from when I've seen him. He was also great at the World CUp IMO in extremely limited icetime. He can absolutely fly on the ice and has all the skill in the world.

It is fairly significant stats IMO but Kovalchuk may not be trying as hard in Kazan as he does in the IMO if you know what I mean. This may be completely wrong, but I expect that Kovalchuk could score a lot more if he was playing at the level he plays at in the NHL.

......and the panthers are gonna be seeing Ovechkin and Kovalchuk 6 times a year

 

[Epsilon]

Kovalchuk was brought to Kazan to sell tickets as much as anything else. I doubt he's being asked to play full throttle, and given that he's only there temporarily I doubt he really wants to either. He's got nothing to prove over in Europe while guys like Ovechkin and Malkin can get plenty out of good performances.

 

[Amen evil king]

Whatever it is, I'm glad this scoring slump is happening outside of the NHL rather than in it. I can't believe how wild some of the RSL stats are, with comparable NHL players at different ends of the RSL-scoring spectrum and the likes of Pavel Rosa dominating in a league full of NHL all stars..

 

[BuppY]

Whatever it is, I'm glad this scoring slump is happening outside of the NHL rather than in it. I can't believe how wild some of the RSL stats are, with comparable NHL players at different ends of the RSL-scoring spectrum and the likes of Pavel Rosa dominating in a league full of NHL all stars..

agree with u

 

[EroCaps]

Let's take a look at their this season's stats in Russia :

Ilya Kovalchuk (AK Bars)

22 games, 7 goals, 5 assists, 12 points, 26 PIM

Alexander Ovechkin (Dynamo)

25 games, 8 goals, 12 assists, 20 points, 26 PIM

So what does it mean? That Ovechkin will rank 2nd in NHL scoring in his rookie season?

Two points:

1. Semin has 11 goals to their 7,8. *nonsensical homer plug*

2. Ovechkin's manner of style (physical, dominant two-way, team player) is better suited to the RSL, (and winning playoff series IMO).

I do believe Kovalchuck has more offensive talent than any modern player, but he doesn't utilize his linemates as best he could.

Or it's just that Ilya is having trouble adjusting to the rink size and game.

 

[Ola]

There are some of interesting analyses to make when you see how some of the NHL players perform in Europe.

For example, there are allot of world class offensive skilled players in europe(non NHLers). The biggest diffrence I´ve seen since the influence of NHL players are among defensemens. If you for example compare Forsberg with a career SEL player in Johan Davidsson and how they look gooing up against a all SEL defense they are pretty even. But if you throw a Chara/McCabe/Souray/Bäckman/Berg on the ice Davidsson will disapear while Forsberg will keep up his scoring.

Its also obvious how poor stats reflects how good a player is and much beeing in the right enviorment with the right line mates means for a players stats. As a long time rangerfan I´ve heard GM`s and coaches explain how the media press ect. affects players in NY. Personally I belive that there are only a handful of players in the NHL who could score no matter what linemates they have and no matter what system they play in.

Europeans forwards who plays in the NHL becomes more effective and better along the board ect. Allot of them gets a offensive upswing on the scoreboard after only playing a year or two in NA. But its also obvious that its really hard to improve pure skills like skating ect while playing in the NHL. The Sedins are a great example.

Daniel Sedin(18 y/o) 42 points in 50 games
Daniel Sedin(19 y/o) 45 points in 50 games
Henrik Sedin(18 y/o) 34 points in 49 games
Henrik Sedin(19 y/o) 47 points in 50 games
Daniel Sedin(24 y/o) 14 points in 22 games
Henrik Sedin(24 y/o) 15 points in 20 games

Stats are always stats but its obvious on the ice that the Sedins hasn´t improved their skating ect one bit since they left the SEL, they have of course become physcially stronger but they don´t look any better on the ice. The Sedin played over a 100 games a year in Europe as 18&19 years olds and missed allot of time to practise. Maybe they went to NA to early.

 

[Lord]

Kovalchuk is playing much less time per game than in North America. The second point is that he doesn't show much desire to play. And Kovalchuk is playing not like in Atlanta, standing in the neutral zone waiting for pass for breakaway. In RSL, atleast in the games i watched, he was acting like a two-way player not one-dimensional.
The question about rink size and adjusting to the game seems laughable for me because such players like Kovalchuk would always benefite from large surface.

 

[Strizzi]

The performances of NHLers in Europe don't mean much. From watching Joe Thornton for example one could get the impression that he's a lazy non-physical floater. But I guess he just doen't want to pick up a serious injury, not because he couldn't do otherwise.

 

[Hug Ben Laf]

This is interesting, especially given AK Bars Kazan has all the NHL talent to surround Kovalchuk. I have not seen Kovalchuk play in Europe obviously, but from looking at his stats and game by game, it seems that some games, he just is invisible on the scoresheet and the next, he breaks out and gets a couple goals.

Now these comparasons have much more validity being in the RSL. I really do think Ovechkin will be a top 25 player in the league in his rookie year, but not 2nd in scoring. He IMO will be the next great NHL superstar. He is absolutely phenomenal from when I've seen him. He was also great at the World CUp IMO in extremely limited icetime. He can absolutely fly on the ice and has all the skill in the world.

It is fairly significant stats IMO but Kovalchuk may not be trying as hard in Kazan as he does in the IMO if you know what I mean. This may be completely wrong, but I expect that Kovalchuk could score a lot more if he was playing at the level he plays at in the NHL.

......and the panthers are gonna be seeing Ovechkin and Kovalchuk 6 times a year

Yeah so what? Kovalchuk and Ovechkin are gonna see J-Bo and Luongo 6 times a year too!

 

[Ola]

The performances of NHLers in Europe don't mean much. From watching Joe Thornton for example one could get the impression that he's a lazy non-physical floater. But I guess he just doen't want to pick up a serious injury, not because he couldn't do otherwise.

Leagues like RSL, SEL are sm-liiga are much more competitive then the other leagues in europe, like the swiss league. No matter what your name is you would be sent home if you didn´t give 100%. In a league like the SEL many players are playing infront of their "home" crowed and that certainly brings up the atmosphere.

 

[Wally112pac]

Half of the NHLers are just there for a skate.

Don't put too much stock into their stats.

 

[Crosbyfan]

Half of the NHLers are just there for a skate.

Don't put too much stock into their stats.

Why do I think it's the half you don't want on your team? Especially entering a playoff series.

 

[PanthersRule96]

Yeah so what? Kovalchuk and Ovechkin are gonna see J-Bo and Luongo 6 times a year too!

True dat. But either way, Ovechkin and Kovalchuk are ridiculously good. At least they're not on the same team.

 

[PanthersRule96]

Yes, I know, but so are Bouwmeester and Luongo, but Bouw is not to Kovalchuk's level yet.

 

[Lionel Hutz]

Let's take a look at their this season's stats in Russia :

Ilya Kovalchuk (AK Bars)

22 games, 7 goals, 5 assists, 12 points, 26 PIM

Alexander Ovechkin (Dynamo)

25 games, 8 goals, 12 assists, 20 points, 26 PIM

So what does it mean? That Ovechkin will rank 2nd in NHL scoring in his rookie season?

Clearly, Kovalchuck is past his prime, and the new guard is ready to step in.

 

[Chimaera]

I think this thread is pretty funny overall...


However, even being somewhat of an Ovechkin-ite, I still don't think that coming over from day one in Ovechkin's career he'll be able to hold a candle to what Kovalchuk can do now.

While I do hope that Ovechkin's physical and defensive game are comparable, or maybe even better, it is laughable to suggest that he will do what Kovalchuk can do as far as scoring is going. Maybe eventually, and maybe to some extent, but we're talking about one of the top point getters, and better goal scorers who has already done it.


I will say this, there might be some adjustment back to the RSL, and there might be a bit of a desire to avoid a serious injury while playing in the RSL (especially since he's pretty close to going to Arbitration, or trying to work out a longterm deal, so, being hurt would be a 'bad' thing.) but... goal scoring is goal scoring. The pure scorers can do it anywhere, if they have the talent to do so. At least going back down to the lower leagues and all. A player who can score in the NHL can score in the RSL, AHL, ECHL or whatever, it's just going to take some adjustment. I'm not sure someone who can light the league on fire in the AHL, RSL, or ECHL can be guranteed to score in the NHL. Talent shines through.

However, I am interested in Rosa, he might be a guy the Caps could give a training camp look, especially if he's got chemistry with Ovechkin. He might actually have some talent and have just been iin the wrong situation when he was over in the NHL before. And maybe he was just uncomfortable in the NHL, whereas the RSL does afford the ability to be closer to home and family connections. Or maybe he's matured. Either way, some team should give him a look if he continues to score well.

 

[EroCaps]

I think this thread is pretty funny overall...


However, even being somewhat of an Ovechkin-ite, I still don't think that coming over from day one in Ovechkin's career he'll be able to hold a candle to what Kovalchuk can do now.

While I do hope that Ovechkin's physical and defensive game are comparable, or maybe even better, it is laughable to suggest that he will do what Kovalchuk can do as far as scoring is going. Maybe eventually, and maybe to some extent, but we're talking about one of the top point getters, and better goal scorers who has already done it.


I will say this, there might be some adjustment back to the RSL, and there might be a bit of a desire to avoid a serious injury while playing in the RSL (especially since he's pretty close to going to Arbitration, or trying to work out a longterm deal, so, being hurt would be a 'bad' thing.) but... goal scoring is goal scoring. The pure scorers can do it anywhere, if they have the talent to do so. At least going back down to the lower leagues and all. A player who can score in the NHL can score in the RSL, AHL, ECHL or whatever, it's just going to take some adjustment. I'm not sure someone who can light the league on fire in the AHL, RSL, or ECHL can be guranteed to score in the NHL. Talent shines through.

However, I am interested in Rosa, he might be a guy the Caps could give a training camp look, especially if he's got chemistry with Ovechkin. He might actually have some talent and have just been iin the wrong situation when he was over in the NHL before. And maybe he was just uncomfortable in the NHL, whereas the RSL does afford the ability to be closer to home and family connections. Or maybe he's matured. Either way, some team should give him a look if he continues to score well.

I think it's past time McPhee stopped accomodating star players and finding great players who are *stars* for their leadership and team-play. Jagr was a disaster. Whenever I hear Caps fans suggest surrounding Ovechkin w/familiar faces it makes me all too familiar w/Kip Miller and co.

Besides, he'll have Semin and Fehr (W/remote possibility of Brule or Crosby). A fine young supporting cast. An elite-skilled Russian teammate and powerforward.

 

[Chimaera]

I think it's past time McPhee stopped accomodating star players and finding great players who are *stars* for their leadership and team-play. Jagr was a disaster. Whenever I hear Caps fans suggest surrounding Ovechkin w/familiar faces it makes me all too familiar w/Kip Miller and co.

Besides, he'll have Semin and Fehr (W/remote possibility of Brule or Crosby). A fine young supporting cast. An elite-skilled Russian teammate and powerforward.

If Rosa plays well with him, it wouldn't be a bad thing.


I can remember the old Pivonka Bondra days that worked out well. And for what it's worth, that wouldn't be the sole reason to take a look at a guy like Rosa.


And for all Kip Miller's troubles, if he could play a lick of defense, he wouldn't be half bad. Just mostly bad.

 

[Marshall]

Actually, I think Miller would be a good starting center for Ovechkin: veteran, decent offensive skills, can keep up with faster skaters (though he's not that fast himself, happily distributes the puck, no ego. Could do worse, considering the Caps' price-range.

 

[PSUhockey34]

I think it's past time McPhee stopped accomodating star players and finding great players who are *stars* for their leadership and team-play. Jagr was a disaster. Whenever I hear Caps fans suggest surrounding Ovechkin w/familiar faces it makes me all too familiar w/Kip Miller and co.

Besides, he'll have Semin and Fehr (W/remote possibility of Brule or Crosby). A fine young supporting cast. An elite-skilled Russian teammate and powerforward.

When has McPhee accomodated a star player like he did with Jagr? Kip Miller was a great assest when he was with Jagr, their chemistry on the ice was undeniable

Rosa would be a player worth trying to sign, he isnt going to be expensive and at the very least if he plays in portland, he will add some scoring...if Ovechkin and Rosa are showing signs that work well together then whats the harm in trying to make it work in the NHL...whose to say Ovechkin is going to have chemistry with Semin and even though Fehr is doing pretty well in the WHL, he's yet to play a single AHL or NHL game so its way too early to start to factor him into playing along side Ovechkin...matter of fact I wouldnt be suprised to see Semin and Ovechkin on seperate lines

I love how some caps fan assume that all of our prospects are going to be impact players or that we'll end up drafting Brule or Crosby (sorry if that sounds like a broken record to some)

 

[Chimaera]

When has McPhee accomodated a star player like he did with Jagr? Kip Miller was a great assest when he was with Jagr, their chemistry on the ice was undeniable

Rosa would be a player worth trying to sign, he isnt going to be expensive and at the very least if he plays in portland, he will add some scoring...if Ovechkin and Rosa are showing signs that work well together then whats the harm in trying to make it work in the NHL...whose to say Ovechkin is going to have chemistry with Semin and even though Fehr is doing pretty well in the WHL, he's yet to play a single AHL or NHL game so its way too early to start to factor him into playing along side Ovechkin...matter of fact I wouldnt be suprised to see Semin and Ovechkin on seperate lines

I love how some caps fan assume that all of our prospects are going to be impact players or that we'll end up drafting Brule or Crosby (sorry if that sounds like a broken record to some)

To further this one, I'd be extremely shocked to see Ovechkin and Semin on the same line, other than the power play. And eventually when another top player is groomed or brought in, I think Semin could be the guy to run his own Powerplay line (i.e. the #2 unit) while Ovechkin and company runs the top one.

I still would like to see Zubrus, Ovechkin, Fehr.

 

[EroCaps]

When has McPhee accomodated a star player like he did with Jagr? Kip Miller was a great assest when he was with Jagr, their chemistry on the ice was undeniable

Rosa would be a player worth trying to sign, he isnt going to be expensive and at the very least if he plays in portland, he will add some scoring...if Ovechkin and Rosa are showing signs that work well together then whats the harm in trying to make it work in the NHL...whose to say Ovechkin is going to have chemistry with Semin and even though Fehr is doing pretty well in the WHL, he's yet to play a single AHL or NHL game so its way too early to start to factor him into playing along side Ovechkin...matter of fact I wouldnt be suprised to see Semin and Ovechkin on seperate lines

I love how some caps fan assume that all of our prospects are going to be impact players or that we'll end up drafting Brule or Crosby (sorry if that sounds like a broken record to some)

You're right about Miller, but you're overlooking the fact that Jagr was cancer. I don't care what Miller brought to the team. Jagr brought Miller, Jagr also brought a lot of baggage. Ovechkin doesn't, it appears. If he's good w/Rosa, he can be good w/other players. He shouldn't need him. You build a strong team w/players who depend on themselves. Just my .02.

I didn't suggest Semin or Fehr actually have chemistry w/AO, I merely said he had a quality couple of bluechippers as supporting cast. Am I wrong there to assume those two will be impact players? Who isn't? I also said there was a remote possibility we'd be drafting a Crosby or Brule.