Discussion in 'National Hockey League Talk' started by DangleBojangle, Feb 2, 2020.
Taking prime Pronger all day everyday.
That's certainly the wrong choice but you're completely entitled to make it.
Pronger is a much better playoff performer.
I'd have him at number 6 just outside the 'Big 5' (Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, Howe, Crosby)
is OVi in the top 10./ yes, cracking the great 4 of Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe and Orr, is going to be VERY difficult, if not impossible. there is nothing wrong however with being somewhere between 5 and 10. For me even if Ovi passes Gretzky in goals he likely wont sniff 2000 points, he currently is second among active players in points with 1268, Joe Thorton is over 200 points ahead of him at 1502. only 14 players in history have scored 1500 points.
Agreed. We can really see the age gap between members here. Pronger in his prime was one of the very best Dmen the NHL has ever seen. He could single handily control a game and shutdown star players.
As far as Ovechkin goes. The best goal scorer I've ever seen play in the NHL and absolutely a top player of all time.
I remember when this thread was readable.
Peak OV has 1 of the best peaks of any non big 4 player and could single handily win games so what is this "point" about Pronger supposed to prove? Also Pronger made the 1st AST 1x in his career, compared to OV's 8x. You can say there's more competition at D than LW but that's not covering a 8-1 difference lol (there's also 2 spots for D so easier to make it anyway). Pronger is one of the most overrated players ever, people like to pretend like he was the best dman every year when really he was busy being injured, suspended or just not as good as some pump him up to be.
Technically, he's not even the greatest goal scorer after Gretzky, if we go by GPG career wise, it's Bossy, Lemieux, and Bure leading the way, impressive being Lemieux and Bossy who scored at 0.7+ goals per game, Mario's numbers actually dropped because he came back out of retirement. Bossy has always known to be a legend.
The usual excuses when anyone mentions this is about scoring era, but then again, Wayne's goal totals are also because of said scoring era.
Paradoxically, Ovechkin is actually scoring more as he gets older, he was the fastest to go from 600 to 698 and is on pace for the 700th in just 154 games. What he's doing is remarkable and unprecedented, currently challenging for his 9th Rocket at the age of 34. If he keeps that up for 700 to 800, he'll accomplish it in two full seasons to age 37. After that, it's just a matter of being a 30-goal man (which even Selanne did scoring 31 at age 40) to break the record. And he's going to do it, too.
He'll finish with 1600 points or so, amazing for this era, and likely more than even Thornton with his 1000+ assists. Although his assists have taken a plummet, Ovechkin will still finish with about 700 assists playing to 40 years old.
He might beat Gretzky on the regular season goal scoring totals, but with 65 playoff goals he still has a ways to go as Gretzky had 122. So the number people should be talking about is 1016: the total of Gretzky's regular season and playoff goals, which I argue are harder to come by.
If Ovechkin ultimately tops those, scoring 1000 goals, I'd call him a 5-6 all time. But he's never breaching Gretzky-Lemieux-Orr-Howe and in my opinion is in a fight for 5-6 with Crosby, if he also manages to play elite hockey to 40 for 600 goals and 1000+ assists.
Ovechkin won ****ing nothing at his peak. Nothing for Russia nothing for the capitals. NOTHING. He’s been past the second round ONCE and won his smythe on name alone. Give me ****in break with the peak ovechkin talk. Guy is so overrated
Players GPG drops when he plays games past his prime, what a shocker!
Had Bossy played more games at 30+ years, his GPG would have dropped quite a bit. Same with Bure. No reason to compare their GPG with players who played full careers and a lot of games past their primes
No he isn't, he certainly had better teams though. On the Ducks he wasn't even the best Dman during that run. Pronger is a great dman, but certainly not one of the 10 best of all time. Ovechkin during his prime was an unstoppable offensive force the likes the modern era of hockey hasn't really seen and drove a team without a blue line or a goaltender.
Age has nothing to do with it as I'm a 41 year old man that watched Pronger play. No one considers Pronger one of the 10 best dmen of all time, while many consider Ovechkin among the 10 best players of all time now and he isn't even done. I'm not degrading Pronger as a player, he was awesome only accentuated by his propensity to get away with elbowing, sticking, grabbing and all sorts of stuff that doesn't fly any longer, but without Ovechkin the Washington Capitals are nothing over the past 14 seasons, nothing. They may scrape into the playoffs, but they aren't doing anything aside from that, especially in those early years. Not even Crosby can claim this as their record without him is somewhat stellar.
Prefer Pronger all you want but he's absolutely not a better player than Alexander Ovechkin.
OK Crosby's burner account.
As evidenced by his zero Conn Smythe trophies
Here’s how absurd Ovi is...by your own admission he’s been past his “peak” since at least 2017-18; since then he’s won two Rocket Richards and may very well win a third this year.
And? lol guy can even finish top 10 in scoring or even a ppg most years.
Secondary assists are nice, but the point of the game is the put the puck in the net. No one in the history of the sport has done it better than the Great 8
lol typical caps fan. 57 points in 56 games 1-12. Both the players he’s against for the Richard have 10+ points more. In fact Pasta has 81 points with the same amount of goals. So no I’m not impressed
Lol, don't forget that Ovechkin is 34 and past his prime, while those both guys are maybe playing at their peak level i their midtwenties. It's very impressive.
Ovechkin has been doing this since he was 26 so no.....
Crosby didn't do anything for the Pens during his prime either. It was all Malkin. See how this works?
Ovechkin has won six Richard trophies since he turned 27. No one will ever do that again. To put it in perspective, Gretzky led the league in goals five times during his entire career.
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