Value of: Ovechkin to Pittsburgh
- Thread starter letsgooooooojackets
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Empoleon8771
Registered User
A Malkin-Ovechkin duo has been like oil and water anytime it was used for Team Russia, why would it be any different in the NHL?
PensandCaps
Beddy Tlueger
- May 22, 2015
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Other way round...this isn't prime Ovi. At there points in there careers Ovi and Kessel are basically equally as good as each other. Except Kessel is nearly 3 million cheaper. I'd be upset if the pens traded Kessel for Ovi, as we would be adding in salary for basically the same player.
wabagee
Registered User
- Nov 24, 2014
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Same player? I,I,I, huh? What? Uh, know what to say, mmm ok . Zzzhmmn WHAt? Okay you win!
Empoleon8771
Registered User
Today you were wrong. Perhaps tomorrow you'll be right...there is a silver lining to all things bad in life.
Empoleon8771
Registered User
Regular season:
Kessel: 70 points in 82 games
Ovechkin: 69 points in 82 games
Playoffs:
Kessel: 23 points in 25 games
Ovechkin: 8 points in 13 games
Kessel is the better playoff player and regular seasons were close enough to equal, which makes Kessel the better player. Not rocket science.
Actually, to be more correct, playoff Kessel is better than playoff Ovechkin and regular season Ovechkin is better than regular season Kessel. I'd rather have Kessel since the playoffs are what matters.
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That too, but no, just in general. If we were to get Ovechkin (pretend there's no salary cap and we got him for free), we would need to play him with Malkin or Crosby to get the most out of him. Kessel despite his flaws, can be successful away from those centers, and he isn't nearly as dependent on his center getting him the puck as Ovechkin is. Sure the better a center you give him, the better he'll be, but he will make the players around him better - and he will do a better job of that then Ovechkin will. Ovechkin will almost always score more goals - but this team doesn't need more offense - we were already the highest scoring team in the league last year and 3rd the year before (1st after Sullivan took over). What this team needs is players who can play several different ways and make the players around them better. And that's something I think Kessel can do better than Ovechkin. I think it's less about whether one is better then the other, but that they're different players and Kessel suits this team a lot better than Ovechkin would.
I don't think Ovechkin is a bad player, or even a bad playoff performer... just not the right fit for this team, and certainly not at the expense of Kessel. Then you add in the cap, cost to acquire and it makes it even easier to say "hell no".
Personally I think he's an overpaid primadonna and that his cap hit will prevent Washington from ever winning a Stanley Cup due to the fact that he's not worth his cap hit, too dependent on his center and that his linemates spend too much time catering to him. But that still doesn't change the fact that stylistically Ovechkin doesn't fit this team.
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Plural
Registered User
- Mar 10, 2011
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Pens don't need him and the Caps can't trade him without serious return. Pens have won the last two Cups, there literally is no reason for them to take in OV and his cap-hit. The age old saying, "if it ain't broken don't fix it" is a good line here.
Holtbyisms
Matt Irwin is a legit talent
The thought of this probably makes both fan bases puke, the stars from each team puke and the entire world puke...never happen under any circumstance. (mod) Ovechkin on that team would be insane.
Say what you will about him last season but I'd be shocked if he doesn't come back with 50 next year. Why do we have any reason to doubt it? Last year was a down year in terms of individual production because he was doing different stuff(and praised for it). He's has three straight years of 50 before that. If he's not at least high 40s I'd be shocked.
Say what you will about him last season but I'd be shocked if he doesn't come back with 50 next year. Why do we have any reason to doubt it? Last year was a down year in terms of individual production because he was doing different stuff(and praised for it). He's has three straight years of 50 before that. If he's not at least high 40s I'd be shocked.
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Plural
Registered User
- Mar 10, 2011
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I agree that Ovechkin is better player than Kessel, but it's a valid point that Ovechkin might not be as good of a fit for the Pens. I'm not sure if that's the case, but Pens fans probably know what Kessel brought to the table and how he fits the team. Ovechkin, for better of worse, is a big player and a big character. Would he fit the Pens team dynamics as well as Kessel? Can't say, but considering the Pens won the last two cups there is some merit to the idea that replacing Kessel with anyone might not give them as good results. In a vacuum Ovechkin is better than Kessel but in context of the team, he might not be the better fit.
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Why? No one gives a **** if he scores 40-50 goals or about his individual production. Since Sullivan took over as coach on Dec 12th 2015, Pittsburgh has scored 35 more goals then the next team and almost 50 more goals then the 3rd team on that list and 60 more than the #5 team. Clearly Pittsburgh isn't a team that needs more offense or goal scoring.
Tell me about him individually as a player. How does Ovechkin score and in general play? Because every time I see him, I see him:
A) sitting up on the PP getting spoon fed shots. Almost 45% of his goals each season (at least over the last 3) come on the PP - Kessel by comparison has scored less than 25% of his goals on the PP.
B) waiting to get the puck in the high slot/circle.
Now how does either of those things actually help the Penguins? It's not like we're actually in need of a scoring LW - we already have 2 of them - both of whom scored 25+ goals and played at a 68+ pt pace. And while it would be nice to have someone who could onetime shots like Ovechkin can, seeing how our PP has been ranked 3rd since MS took over.. again, that's a want, not a need.
Again, my issue isn't that Ovechkin is a bad player - he isn't. But he's significantly more dependent on his center then Kessel is. Kessel, even though he will not score as many goals as Ovechkin will, makes the players around him better. He can create his own offense and carry his own line without needing a #1C to feed him the puck. Nor does he need the PP to inflate his goal totals.
Remember, Sheary scored 23 goals in 61 games last season (30g pace) and Guentzel scored 29 goals in his last 65 games (36g pace). Kessel that bum only scored 23 while putting up 70 pts - so it's not like we have a shortage of skilled wingers.
So please... what does OV give us that we do not already have? Because at ES... it's certainly not very much. Ovechkin is a very good player... but he's not someone this team needs. And his style isn't one that fits this team. Our centers already have skilled wingers who can put the puck in the net extremely well, so they certainly don't need someone who's going to post up and just wait to be spoon fed shots and scoring chances. And they certainly do not need someone like that who carries a 9.538m cap hit when our three best wingers only make a fraction more than that (Kessel, Guentzel and Sheary cost 10.534m).
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Too many people take it too personally when someone says they do not want their player - regardless of how good that player is. They can't be bothered to look at the circumstances and whatnot, and just get offended that how dare fans not want such and such a player.
Plural
Registered User
- Mar 10, 2011
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I think you're mischaracterizing OV by a fair bit in that post Riptide, but you have a point overall. Ovechkin carries a large cap-hit and the value he could potentially bring doesn't seem nearly high enough to change him with Kessel. In a vacuum he'd be a great addition to any team for sure. But for next season Pens? I don't know, I just don't see it fitting very well.
- Aug 12, 2008
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Totally understand pens fans points of the 9.5 cap hit and you definitely dont fix what aint broke but there is no world where Kessel is better than Ovi right now. Ovi is playing 1st line (with Backstrom) against other teams top def every night. Kessel is hanging on the 3rd line with the best two players in the world in front of him carrying the load almost every night. He has ZERO pressure to perform.
I do agree with pens fans that kessel is a better fit only in that 3rd line spot. IMO ovi would lose interest playing 3rd line on the pens. Now if he was put with one of the two superstars it might be different but thats also what everyone thought when Kessel was aquired. Crosby and Malkin seem to do better with less talented wingers.
not offended pens fans dont want him for the reasons they are saying but its laughable that kessel in a completely different role is being considered better by some in this thread.
*if it were to happen I would hate it but Id be happy for Ovi if he was part of the Pens upcoming 3peat.
I do agree with pens fans that kessel is a better fit only in that 3rd line spot. IMO ovi would lose interest playing 3rd line on the pens. Now if he was put with one of the two superstars it might be different but thats also what everyone thought when Kessel was aquired. Crosby and Malkin seem to do better with less talented wingers.
not offended pens fans dont want him for the reasons they are saying but its laughable that kessel in a completely different role is being considered better by some in this thread.
*if it were to happen I would hate it but Id be happy for Ovi if he was part of the Pens upcoming 3peat.
BHD
Vejmelka for Vezina
Kessel wouldn't get you Ovechkin, and Maatta doesn't close the gap.
You (people in general) have to consider what trading Ovechkin, who still has 4 years left on his current deal, would mean to the Capitals as an organization. They would have to be convinced that they are better off without him. I don't think the Pens have the pieces to do that.
brewski420
Registered User
Who gives a **** who is the better player? I doubt you will find a single Pens fan who would take Ovi for what it would cost both in assets and cap hit. Even just a straight up swap of Kessel for Ovi just makes zero sense for the Penguins imo. That does not make one player better than the other! Just better for one team over the other.
Three years ago I would be all over getting him on the Pens
That's the point though, isn't it. That what he is worth to Washington is so ridiculously off what he is worth to Pittsburgh, that there just isn't a proposal there.
To Washington he is the face of their franchise, their cash cow, their captain and the best player they ever had. And Pittsburgh is a divisional rival, so that would possibly add another premium to an already ludicrous ask measured against what he could be to Pittsburgh.
Washington would never trade him to PIT for Kessel and Maatta and PIT most likely would not even be any better off, if they did.
- Aug 12, 2008
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well if you read what I wrote and go back read thru the thread its clear who i was responding too.
I also pretty much said everything you said.
Dying Alive
Phil = 2x Champ
The only question that really matters is whether Ovi is $3M better than Kessel. I'd say the answer is no, but ymmv. Add in the fact that the deal wouldn't be Ovi for Kessel straight up and would likely have another valuable piece going back to the Caps and it's an easy pass.
I'm a Pens fan but honestly have nothing against Ovechkin and the thought of him on the Pens doesn't make me puke at all. It just doesn't make any sense for the Pens to trade for him.
I'm a Pens fan but honestly have nothing against Ovechkin and the thought of him on the Pens doesn't make me puke at all. It just doesn't make any sense for the Pens to trade for him.
Shady Machine
Registered User
- Aug 6, 2010
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Wait Emp, are you seriously suggesting that Kessel is better than Ovi?
Obviously this thread is silly and Ovi to the Pens is nonsensical on so many fronts, but does anyone honestly believe that Kessel is better than Ovi?
Obviously this thread is silly and Ovi to the Pens is nonsensical on so many fronts, but does anyone honestly believe that Kessel is better than Ovi?
Alexander the Gr8
Registered User
When did Kessel become better than Ovechkin? Also, why is this thread only about the Penguins? Are we forgetting there would be another side in this trade?
If the deal is Ovechkin for Kessel straight up or with salary retention, the Capitals pass for sure. We have enough depth on RW, and we lack depth on LW. We need to keep Ovechkin at this point.
If the deal is Ovechkin for Kessel straight up or with salary retention, the Capitals pass for sure. We have enough depth on RW, and we lack depth on LW. We need to keep Ovechkin at this point.
Remington 700
Registered User
I've been told by some fans that the Presidents trophy is actually what matters because you were successful over a larger sample size and the playoffs are just getting lucky bounces.
brewski420
Registered User
well if you read what I wrote and go back read thru the thread its clear who i was responding too.
I also pretty much said everything you said.
I have no idea who you were responding to. Next time maybe attach so context isn't a guessing game. Maybe the context would of been clearer without all the Ovi is clearly better sprinkled throughout your post. Sorry if I offended.
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