Ovechkin or Giroux???

[smoochy]

Ovi if not for the pens two years in a row would have had maybe 3 cups in a row. He still was awesome and showed up to play but he took the d side of the game really serious trotz said last year.

Yep. He stepped it up to another level last year. Which for whatever reason he knew he had to if he wanted to win a cup.

Giroux is a great player. But he cant take over games and be a force like OV can.

If he could. Why are the Flyers out of the playoffs or easy first round fodder during his Time as leader of this team. Hes got heart. Hes got skill. He just isnt able on his own to ratchet it up like guys like OV can.

 

[Hivemind]

League-wide individual awards

Alexander Ovechkin:
Calder Trophy - 2006
Art Ross Trophy - 2008
Pearson/Lindsay Award - 2008, 2009, 2013
Hart Trophy - 2008, 2009, 2013
Rocket Richard Trophy - 2008, 2009, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2018

Claude Giroux:
[none]

 

[hatcher]

League-wide individual awards

Alexander Ovechkin:
Calder Trophy - 2006
Art Ross Trophy - 2008
Pearson/Lindsay Award - 2008, 2009, 2013
Hart Trophy - 2008, 2009, 2013
Rocket Richard Trophy - 2008, 2009, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2018

Claude Giroux:
[none]

HHAHAHAHAHAH dont do that on here or you will get blocked HAHAHAhA.

 

[Striiker]

Anyone else find it weird that suddenly Ovi isn’t a playoff choker when his team plays better? Must be a coincidence! He’s lazy and doesn’t show up in the playoffs, after all!

 

[hatcher]

2005-06	Washington Capitals	NHL	81	52	54	106	52	2	--	--	--	--	--
2006-07	Washington Capitals	NHL	82	46	46	92	52	-19	--	--	--	--	--
2007-08	Washington Capitals	NHL	82	65	47	112	40	28	7	4	5	9	0
2008-09	Washington Capitals	NHL	79	56	54	110	72	8	14	11	10	21	8
2009-10	Washington Capitals	NHL	72	50	59	109	89	45	7	5	5	10	0
2010-11	Washington Capitals	NHL	79	32	53	85	41	24	9	5	5	10	10
2011-12	Washington Capitals	NHL	78	38	27	65	26	-8	14	5	4	9	8
2012-13	Moscow Dynamo	KHL	31	19	21	40	14	13	--	--	--	--	--
2012-13	Washington Capitals	NHL	48	32	24	56	36	2	7	1	1	2	4
2013-14	Washington Capitals	NHL	78	51	28	79	48	-35	--	--	--	--	--
2014-15	Washington Capitals	NHL	81	53	28	81	58	10	14	5	4	9	6
2015-16	Washington Capitals	NHL	79	50	21	71	53	21	12	5	7	12	2
2016-17	Washington Capitals	NHL	82	33	36	69	50	6	13	5	3	8	8
2017-18	Washington Capitals	NHL	82	49	38	87	32	3	24	15	12	27	8
2018-19	Washington Capitals	NHL	10	8	6	14	2	0
	NHL Totals

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TFOOT] [/TFOOT]

 

[hatcher]

2005-06	Washington Capitals	NHL	81	52	54	106	52	2	--	--	--	--	--
2006-07	Washington Capitals	NHL	82	46	46	92	52	-19	--	--	--	--	--
2007-08	Washington Capitals	NHL	82	65	47	112	40	28	7	4	5	9	0
2008-09	Washington Capitals	NHL	79	56	54	110	72	8	14	11	10	21	8
2009-10	Washington Capitals	NHL	72	50	59	109	89	45	7	5	5	10	0
2010-11	Washington Capitals	NHL	79	32	53	85	41	24	9	5	5	10	10
2011-12	Washington Capitals	NHL	78	38	27	65	26	-8	14	5	4	9	8
2012-13	Moscow Dynamo	KHL	31	19	21	40	14	13	--	--	--	--	--
2012-13	Washington Capitals	NHL	48	32	24	56	36	2	7	1	1	2	4
2013-14	Washington Capitals	NHL	78	51	28	79	48	-35	--	--	--	--	--
2014-15	Washington Capitals	NHL	81	53	28	81	58	10	14	5	4	9	6
2015-16	Washington Capitals	NHL	79	50	21	71	53	21	12	5	7	12	2
2016-17	Washington Capitals	NHL	82	33	36	69	50	6	13	5	3	8	8
2017-18	Washington Capitals	NHL	82	49	38	87	32	3	24	15	12	27	8
2018-19	Washington Capitals	NHL	10	8	6	14	2	0
	NHL Totals

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TFOOT] [/TFOOT]

He put points on the board in the playoffs and if not for the pens in the playoffs atleast 2 more cups. Pens are that f***in good with great leaders.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Ovechkin is the better player. But he has spent his time with Backstrom or Kuvy. He's had real #1 centers. If we have OV but don't have Giroux, well, how does that work out? I don't think we have a better team as a result.

Hence why I want both.

 

[Striiker]

Ovechkin is the better player. But he has spent his time with Backstrom or Kuvy. He's had real #1 centers. If we have OV but don't have Giroux, well, how does that work out? I don't think we have a better team as a result.

Hence why I want both.

Of course both.

The point was specifically about last year though, when this started. Which makes a huge difference.

 

[tictactoe]

How can you say that Giroux was superior player last year when Ovechkin won the cup and his 7th Maurice Richard trophy and Conn Smythe trophy. Claude did have a hell of a season last year... No denying it.

Ovechkin is the better player. But he has spent his time with Backstrom or Kuvy. He's had real #1 centers. If we have OV but don't have Giroux, well, how does that work out? I don't think we have a better team as a result.

Hence why I want both.

He also played with Zubrus.

 

[Hivemind]

Ovechkin is the better player. But he has spent his time with Backstrom or Kuvy. He's had real #1 centers. If we have OV but don't have Giroux, well, how does that work out? I don't think we have a better team as a result.

Hence why I want both.

Ovechkin's first two seasons were spent with Dainus Zubrus and Chris Clark as his primary linemates. Especially early in his career, Ovechkin was excellent at creating his own offense and generating shots off the rush. He's had to reinvent his offense multiple times as he's aged and as teams have adapted to his play. As much as people talking about him being a "one trick pony" with his shot from the left circle these days, he's had a variety of different primary moves over the course of his career. Prior to the 2010 Olympics, his go-to move was rushing up the wing, using the defender to screen the goaltender, and then firing the puck through/near the defenders feet. The Canadian team exploited that and shut it down during their quarter-final beatdown of Russia, and the NHL copied their approach over the next couple seasons (the first scoring dip in Ovie's career). Ovechkin has morphed his game multiple times since then, including even playing on the right wing under Adam Oates. There's no doubt that the current iteration of Ovechkin is more dependent on his center than prior iterations of Ovie. But don't make the mistake of thinking that Ovie needs an elite center in order to produce.

This reminds me of the early Ovechkin/Crosby debates on this and other boards, where posters frequently went with the "Crosby makes players around him better and Ovechkin doesn't" argument while ignoring the fact that Ovechkin turned Chris Clark into a 30-goal scorer. Clark scored a grand total of 18 more goals in his NHL career after being separated from Ovechkin.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Ovechkin's first two seasons were spent with Dainus Zubrus and Chris Clark as his primary linemates. Especially early in his career, Ovechkin was excellent at creating his own offense and generating shots off the rush. He's had to reinvent his offense multiple times as he's aged and as teams have adapted to his play. As much as people talking about him being a "one trick pony" with his shot from the left circle these days, he's had a variety of different primary moves over the course of his career. Prior to the 2010 Olympics, his go-to move was rushing up the wing, using the defender to screen the goaltender, and then firing the puck through/near the defenders feet. The Canadian team exploited that and shut it down during their quarter-final beatdown of Russia, and the NHL copied their approach over the next couple seasons (the first scoring dip in Ovie's career). Ovechkin has morphed his game multiple times since then, including even playing on the right wing under Adam Oates. There's no doubt that the current iteration of Ovechkin is more dependent on his center than prior iterations of Ovie. But don't make the mistake of thinking that Ovie needs an elite center in order to produce.

This reminds me of the early Ovechkin/Crosby debates on this and other boards, where posters frequently went with the "Crosby makes players around him better and Ovechkin doesn't" argument while ignoring the fact that Ovechkin turned Chris Clark into a 30-goal scorer. Clark scored a grand total of 18 more goals in his NHL career after being separated from Ovechkin.

Right, but the thing is one player does not a team make. Ovi had the most team success when he had center depth. So changing Ovi for Giroux guts our center depth for years. On its own it doesn't get us closer to a Cup through that time span. Assuming we are still trading off Richards and Carter, of course.

If we are talking about changing Giroux for OV at LW right now, that's an easy choice for OV.