OV vs Laine

[RageQuit77]

I can accept that OV is "better all around player", maybe even in PPs. But if we look at the comparable PP-statistics since beginning of the Laine's career, Laine has been more efficient on average in PPs goal scoring-wise (as fellow fans are pointed out above with some hard stats). PP goal scoring efficiency cannot be regarded as some kind secondary skill for anybody, least for the guys who are so called goal scorers.

Of course OV is far ahead Laine in absolute measures of PP-efficiency, but his apprentice have been more efficient relatively. And that can be counted for OV, who ultimately gave the model and example to follow.

Note the thread topic!

 

[moropanov]

Ovechkin i dont think that he is even very good powerplay player yea he gets those goals he has good shot, but not amazing level like whats Laine's shot has been seen now for example. Ovechkin gets set up by elite playmakers and shoots randomly hard shots to net and some go in difference is shot attempts that he is allowed to take and i say teams allow those shots they will not let Laine shoot those nearly as much they accept Ovechkins shots because they know its better to let him shoot from point than let Bäckström Kuznetsov Oshie Carlsson play 4v3. With Laine that would be suicideous he will score quickly if given free shot lines. Teams could quite easily eliminate Ovechkins scoring on powerplays if they chose to do so but they know then those skilled other players would score more 4v3. I think Ovechkins big goal statistics tell more about stragedy of Washington especially on powerplay but also 5v5 his stats get boosted because others try to set up him more than necessary its star cult think.. If given no priviledges he would have to defend like others play powerplay only half of it shorter shifts more intensively no team mates trying to set him up more than average his goal and point totals would drop clearly. He is good shooter but not nearly as great as hyped even in Russian national team he has some special treatment, but there not so much as in Washington and his stats are mediocre in national team in IIHF world championships many players who play in Europe have showed better play/even stats than him. Guys like Petri Kontiola or Mathias Olimb Lauris Darzins Linus Omark seem to get as good/better results than him at wch atlest for last 10 years its been so..

 

[talitintti]

Using p/60 stats without realizing that most of the time the PP unit switches and Ovechkin stays on, it's after the puck has been cleared and there is often not even offensive zone possession established during the 2nd PP unit.

Garbage.

 

[PhilJets]

Laine is power play god. 19 years old led the league.
He will most likely score 50 goals all on the power play this year

 

[grieves]

I terms of efficiency this isn't close. Drooling for the days when they start double shifting Laine.

But it sort of makes sense too. Ovie is more of a power forward type and Laine is a sniper extraordinaire, so if the contest is basically who is better just based on shot alone, Laine has no equal.

 

[Mulletman]

It's crazy to think that Ovechkin is on his way to become the first player in NHL history to score 300 career powerplay goals. But along comes Laine and from the looks of it he might be even better at scoring powerplay goals.

 

[RageQuit77]

It's sad Hockey reference doesn't yet give all advanced stats and splits from Ovi's early seasons. Anyway, he has currently 233 career regular season PP goals. Following now Hockey reference site and available data there.

Ovi had 198 pp Goals from 2007-08 to this day in 852 games played. In those games he had 1312 PP SOG, PP S% being 15.1% and avg 1.54 PP SOG/Game. PP TSA was 2638, PP Sthru% 49.7%, 3.1 PP TSA/Game

Career PP TOI (lacking first 2 seasons): 3861.6
PP TOI/GP: 4.53
0.23 PP Goals/Game

For Laine PP stats of entire career this far are: 35 PP Goals, 154 PP SOG, PP S% 22.7%, 0.91 PP SOG/game, PP TSA 292, PP Sthru% 52.7%, 1.73 PP TSA/Game

Career PP TOI: 491.6
PP TOI/GP: 2.91
0.21 PP Goals/Game

While Ovi's PP stats are imperfect here now, his career sample is enough big that those two missing seasons do not dramatically change averages even if included. We get approximate idea about their PP performances nevertheless.

Alex Ovechkin NHL Advanced Statistics (Power Play) | Hockey-Reference.com
Patrik Laine NHL Advanced Statistics (Power Play) | Hockey-Reference.com

 

[filinski77]

As a Caps fan I have no problem admitting that Laine is a better on the power play than Ovi is right now, but who cares since we are comparing a 33 year old to a 20 year old, who knows if Laine is even going to be efficient at 30+ years.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

It's asking for better PP player, not better shot. Laine offers nothing outside of his shot. This is OV easily.

 

[Tage2Tuch]

Laine isn’t even as good as OV now and especially not when he was younger.

I wonder how good Laine would be on say the wings or the rangers. If he can’t put up top numbers or even get a goal st even strength this year on a goalie, and he’s never been an assist guy despite being apart of that powerhouse top 6.....I just don’t know how many goals he’d be pumping in on those teams.

His shot and his skill could make room for him to be a good scorer but more in the 30 range on teams like those.

 

[grieves]

It's sad Hockey reference doesn't yet give all advanced stats and splits from Ovi's early seasons. Anyway, he has currently 233 career regular season PP goals. Following now Hockey reference site and available data there.

Ovi had 198 pp Goals from 2007-08 to this day in 852 games played. In those games he had 1312 PP SOG, PP S% being 15.1% and avg 1.54 PP SOG/Game. PP TSA was 2638, PP Sthru% 49.7%, 3.1 PP TSA/Game

Career PP TOI (lacking first 2 seasons): 3861.6
PP TOI/GP: 4.53
0.23 PP Goals/Game

For Laine PP stats of entire career this far are: 35 PP Goals, 154 PP SOG, PP S% 22.7%, 0.91 PP SOG/game, PP TSA 292, PP Sthru% 52.7%, 1.73 PP TSA/Game

Career PP TOI: 491.6
PP TOI/GP: 2.91
0.21 PP Goals/Game

While Ovi's PP stats are imperfect here now, his career sample is enough big that those two missing seasons do not dramatically change averages even if included. We get approximate idea about their PP performances nevertheless.

Alex Ovechkin NHL Advanced Statistics (Power Play) | Hockey-Reference.com
Patrik Laine NHL Advanced Statistics (Power Play) | Hockey-Reference.com

Thanks, interesting comparison. So basically Ovie has had a little over 2 minutes of PP TOI more per game and has produced 0.02 (8%) more goals with that ~40% PP ice-time increase. And this is not adjusting for era.

Laine is a sick puppy.

 

[RageQuit77]

Thanks, interesting comparison. So basically Ovie has had a little over 2 minutes of PP TOI more per game and has produced 0.02 (8%) more goals with that ~40% PP ice-time increase. And this is not adjusting for era.

Laine is a sick puppy.

Yeah. But don't quote me. Those numbers indeed lack OV's first two seasons due them not yet available at Hockey reference -site, and I didn't see it worth to put more work and time to gather and calculate them in manually, as unnescessary to the point I was demonstrating.

Laine have been this far much more efficient in PP goal scoring career-wise than Ovi relative to their PP TOI on average in played games (....Aaaaaand OVI himself is one of the top dogs in this matter).

 

[Plural]

Yeah. But don't quote me. Those numbers indeed lack OV's first two seasons due them not yet available at Hockey reference -site, and I didn't see it worth to put more work and time to gather and calculate them in manually, as unnescessary to the point I was demonstrating.

Laine have been this far much more efficient in PP goal scoring career-wise than Ovi relative to their PP TOI on average in played games (....Aaaaaand OVI himself is one of the top dogs in this matter).

How do their PP points/assists correlate?

Laine has so incredibly accurate shot that he'll be potting PP goals like crazy.

 

[RageQuit77]

How do their PP points/assists correlate?

Laine has so incredibly accurate shot that he'll be potting PP goals like crazy.

OV (2007-18 to 2018-19) PP assists: 160, 0.188 PP assists/Game
Patty (Career) PP assists: 17, 0.101 PP assists/Game

Based on incomplete HR-data, OV is indeed slightly better PP-playmaker point scoring-wise than Laine, or in other words, Powerplaying Laine is more pure "goal scorer", "PP-specialist", "sniper" than OV. Difference is however minuscule. OV clearly moves a puck more during PPs. More PP shot attempts and more passes.

 

[Plural]

OV (2007-18 to 2018-19) PP assists: 160, 0.188 PP assists/Game
Patty (Career) PP assists: 17, 0.101 PP assists/Game

Based on incomplete HR-data, OV is indeed slightly better PP-playmaker point scoring-wise than Laine, or in other words, Powerplaying Laine is more pure "goal scorer", "PP-specialist", "sniper" than OV. Difference is however minuscule. OV clearly moves a puck more during PPs. More PP shot attempts and more passes.

So basically they're close in terms of offensive production? The difference is OV plays a lot more so his totals are higher.

Like I said earlier, I pick Laine if my team already has elite puck distributors but if I have to rely the player to be the dictating force on my PP I go with OV.

 

[RageQuit77]

So basically they're close in terms of offensive production? The difference is OV plays a lot more so his totals are higher.

Like I said earlier, I pick Laine if my team already has elite puck distributors but if I have to rely the player to be the dictating force on my PP I go with OV.

I'll gonna likely make more comprehensive studies in this matter, formatted tables with full data for both players. But I won't do it now, too tired for that. Anyway,

Powerplay production

Alexander Ovechkin: 233G+211A=444Pts in 1017GP --> 0.23 G/GP, 0.21 A/GP, 0.44 P/GP
Patrik Laine: 35G+17A =52Pts in 169GP ----------------> 0.21 G/GP, 0.10 A/GP, 0.31 P/GP

while OVI have on average some 40-50% more PP TOI than Laine per game.

Good Night! *goes to sleep*

 

[Plural]

During OV's career he's scored 233 PP goals (as per HR) and the next closest one is at 135 (Malkin and Vanek). That's an insane lead and probably the highest percentage lead ever during first 14 seasons of career.

He's also first in PP points with 444 but I don't think he's been equally good PP player as Crosby who has 416 PP points in significantly less games. Ovechkin has 54 point lead over Joe Thornton who's currently thrid with 390 PP points.

Since entering the league Laine is 2nd in PP goals (like has been pointed out in this thread) only bested by OV who's played more games and has had significantly more PP time.

However, Laine is "just" 25th in overall PP points during his career with overall of 52 points. Now that's by no means bad, but during that same time Ovechkin is 8th in overall PP points with 65. Thats' a significant difference even if OV gets more PP TOI.

Phil Kessel is first with 76 PP points.

 

[pi314]

Ovechkin i dont think that he is even very good powerplay player yea he gets those goals he has good shot, but not amazing level like whats Laine's shot has been seen now for example. Ovechkin gets set up by elite playmakers and shoots randomly hard shots to net and some go in difference is shot attempts that he is allowed to take and i say teams allow those shots they will not let Laine shoot those nearly as much they accept Ovechkins shots because they know its better to let him shoot from point than let Bäckström Kuznetsov Oshie Carlsson play 4v3. With Laine that would be suicideous he will score quickly if given free shot lines. Teams could quite easily eliminate Ovechkins scoring on powerplays if they chose to do so but they know then those skilled other players would score more 4v3. I think Ovechkins big goal statistics tell more about stragedy of Washington especially on powerplay but also 5v5 his stats get boosted because others try to set up him more than necessary its star cult think.. If given no priviledges he would have to defend like others play powerplay only half of it shorter shifts more intensively no team mates trying to set him up more than average his goal and point totals would drop clearly. He is good shooter but not nearly as great as hyped even in Russian national team he has some special treatment, but there not so much as in Washington and his stats are mediocre in national team in IIHF world championships many players who play in Europe have showed better play/even stats than him. Guys like Petri Kontiola or Mathias Olimb Lauris Darzins Linus Omark seem to get as good/better results than him at wch atlest for last 10 years its been so..

Paragraphs are your friend.

 

[CHGoalie27]

I personally think Laine’s better on the powerplay, he still has that elite one timer like OV but his wrist shot can beat goalies in a whole different way. Do you agree?

respectfully disagree, OVs wrist shot can also only be seen leaving the net.

 

[Asiantuntija]

respectfully disagree, OVs wrist shot can also only be seen leaving the net.

 

[CHGoalie27]

I wasn't arguing against Laine having a better or worse wrist shot, I was saying that Ovechkin has one too*.

 

[grieves]

During OV's career he's scored 233 PP goals (as per HR) and the next closest one is at 135 (Malkin and Vanek). That's an insane lead and probably the highest percentage lead ever during first 14 seasons of career.

He's also first in PP points with 444 but I don't think he's been equally good PP player as Crosby who has 416 PP points in significantly less games. Ovechkin has 54 point lead over Joe Thornton who's currently thrid with 390 PP points.

Since entering the league Laine is 2nd in PP goals (like has been pointed out in this thread) only bested by OV who's played more games and has had significantly more PP time.

However, Laine is "just" 25th in overall PP points during his career with overall of 52 points. Now that's by no means bad, but during that same time Ovechkin is 8th in overall PP points with 65. Thats' a significant difference even if OV gets more PP TOI.

Phil Kessel is first with 76 PP points.

I don't know if 13 points difference with ~40% increase in PPTOI is a significant difference as you put it. This is without era-adjustments as well.

Players have no control over how many PP points other players gather so I'm not sure if this is that significant. You would kind of expect Ovie to have at least 13 more points at the same stage with that kind of ice-time increase.

Both are great PP players for sure but the difference so far is clear.

 

[Plural]

I don't know if 13 points difference with ~40% increase in PPTOI is a significant difference as you put it. This is without era-adjustments as well.

Players have no control over how many PP points other players gather so I'm not sure if this is that significant. You would kind of expect Ovie to have at least 13 more points at the same stage with that kind of ice-time increase.

Both are great PP players for sure but the difference so far is clear.

There's no need for era adjustment since it's overlapping period of Laine's entire career. I'd say Laine has been better (some might say clearly better) PP goal-scorer and OV has been better all-around offensive PP player. Could make a case for either depending on how your team is built.

Laine is better pick if you need a triggerman and OV is better pick if you need a more versatile PP threat.

 

[grieves]

There's no need for era adjustment since it's overlapping period of Laine's entire career. I'd say Laine has been better (some might say clearly better) PP goal-scorer and OV has been better all-around offensive PP player. Could make a case for either depending on how your team is built.

Laine is better pick if you need a triggerman and OV is better pick if you need a more versatile PP threat.

Ah, right, my mistake.

Yes I guess you could sort of make that claim (although Laine is a very underappreciated playmaker as well, but him being the best triggerman on the planet means he should definitely shoot every time he has a chance), but I just want the guy giving me the most goals, no matter who scores them, because everything in this game boils down to goals in the end.

 

[Plural]

Ah, right, my mistake.

Yes I guess you could sort of make that claim (although Laine is a very underappreciated playmaker as well, but him being the best triggerman on the planet means he should definitely shoot every time he has a chance), but I just want the guy giving me the most goals, no matter who scores them, because everything in this game boils down to goals in the end.

I know they started NHL careers on different ages, but one way to compare them would be to see how Alex fared against his peers during his first seasons and how Laine compares to his.

I don't really think PP production can be explorated directly with PP TOI but it has some bearing.

So, combining OV's first two seasons he was 5th in NHL PP goals with 37. Ahead of him were Kovy (43), Selanne (43), Heatley (40) and Cheechoo (39).

Ovechkin was also 5th in PP points with 89. Ahead of him were Crosby (108), Thornton (105), Savard (99) and Jagr (93).

For his first two seasons Laine is 2nd in PP goals with 29. Ahead of him is only Ovechkin with 34. Noteworthy is that Laine does not play the entire PP opposed to Ovechkin who often does.

For PP points Laine ranks 33rd.

Laine looks to be superior PP goal-scorer but the difference in point production seems rather big to me.

But this is just one way to look at the comparison. But no matter how I look at the stats, it seems like Laine has the edge in goalscoring and Ovechkin has the edge in overall offensive ability. In that light, I guess it's more about preference than anything else.