Value of: Outside opinion on Kadri

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Everyone need one. If he could elevate his hitting to Darcy Tucker level, I would advocate he has his number retired when he finally hangs them up

I like Kadri, but that would be ridiculous

 

[Notsince67]

I like Kadri, but that would be ridiculous

You ever see Darcy Tucker hit?

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

You ever see Darcy Tucker hit?

his number wasn't retired either

 

[Gary Nylund]

Corsi, Goals above Replacement, Points per 60, Expected Goals all show a decline.

From 3 years ago? I don't think so.

 

[Notsince67]

his number wasn't retired either

He didn't have the skill of Kadri

 

[slimbob8]

My assessment of Kadri is pretty much inline with the majority here: he's a high end 2C. I can see why some might think he's a low end 1C, but personally I think that's a bit of a stretch. You can't however make an argument that he's a 3C without sounding like a fool because there's less than nothing to back that up.

 

[Liferleafer]

Corsi, Goals above Replacement, Points per 60, Expected Goals all show a decline.

Weird...expected goals are down, yet he scores 32 back to back....i guess playing the game is actually more accurate than a computer simulator after all....

 

[Fogelhund]

Corsi, Goals above Replacement, Points per 60, Expected Goals all show a decline.

The challenge with your presentation of Corsi, is it doesn't reflect usage. The last two seasons, he's had over 60% Dzone starts, where in the past he was closer to 50/50, and has become a match up player.

As an all round player, and as an important contributor to the team, I think his game has improved immensely over this period. I am one of the few Leafs fans, who thinks his offensive production is likely to decline this year, but I don't think that his importance to the team will. As far as trade value, it will never be higher than it is now.

You mention Points per 60... but his two highest seasons were the last two seasons... except for the lockout season.... so you are just flat out wrong there.

His faceoff percentage has improved over time, his on ice Goals against, and save percentage were very good last year.... On ice for 55 GF, while On ice for 50 GA, while starting in the Dzone, nearly 60% of the time.... that's pretty solid play, and not a decline.

His Goals Against Replacement/82 was 11.7 three years ago, dropped to 10.6 and back up to 10.9 last year. Meanwhile, he went from 51.6% Ozone starts, to 37 and 41% Ozone starts.... I mean, you can't just throw out numbers, without some perspective on them.

I think your conclusions, and stats usage are just flat out wrong. Most Leafs fans are ready to lynch me, but I'd expect him to pot between 37-43 points this year, in a more defensive role, as Tavares and Matthews get, not only the better offensive usage, but linemates. Marner was a bit part of Kadri's scoring last year, and he's unlikely to be paired with him much this year.

Kadri would be a good 2C on any team, that the Leafs have him as their 3C, is an organizational strength, not to mention the great contract.

 

[McSuper]

With the addition of Tavares, the leafs appear to be fairly stacked on their center depth and as most of you already have read trade proposals from random leaf fans looking for defensive help, you read about trouba, paryako and other top defenseman.... A nice endless cycle, but realistically what would a player like Kadri fetch ?

If you ask me I think toronto needs to be calling up the canes being they have pretty good depth on defense and could use some center help so kadri to carolina as an outside fan looks like a good fit.

Help the leaf fans with an actual fair value assessment with their players and let's find them a defenseman that would be available for someone like kadri.
Nazem Kadri hockey statistics and profile at hockeydb.com

Depends who the Canes are offering . Faulk ? Kadri plays better defence then Faulk so the TML are better off keep Kadri

 

[Tarmore]

It's been questioned whether the Leafs need a #4C at all this season. I think we can use one but he'd be more or less a place holder who would eat up some garbage time and other than that not play much at all and probably average less then 5 minutes a game.

This is where I thing the Goat would be perfect. Play him on the PK and the even an occasional regular shift to give the big boys a rest. You could increase his usage in late in games where it's already decided.

 

[westc2]

Kinda reminds me of a more skilled Andrew Shaw, therefore I hate him.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Kinda reminds me of a more skilled Andrew Shaw, therefore I hate him.

even from a Leaf fan perspective, when he loses his temper it's frustrating to watch. It's not a "you hate to play against that guy, but love having him on your team" scenario, he's not a strategic pest when he makes highlights for the wrong reasons but genuinely loses his temper and does things that hurt his team

 

[DanM]

Kinda reminds me of a more skilled Andrew Shaw, therefore I hate him.

LOL I hate Shaw as well

 

[Volica]

Upper echelon offensive 2C.
Guy who can score a lot of goals, and is a good offensive player. Defensively a bit overstated. Doesn't put up elite metrics in that regard; but, hell, he scores 30 goals a season, you don't need him to do that.

Interested to see how he'll be in a 3C role.

 

[mammothCacti]

Why is this so hard? Instead of debating what line center he is just look at the ppg and the guys around him to find good comparables:

David Krejci
Bo Horvat
Nazem Kadri
Ryan Johansen
Henrik Zetterberg
Derek Stephan

5 very good comparables in all age ranges. Closes guys above and below Kadris ppg

All generally good 2Cs with ability to play 1C on a weak center team and would be a great 3C on a Pittsburgh-esque team.

 

[lomiller1]

Weird...expected goals are down, yet he scores 32

5v5 Expected goals per 60 min played
2014/15 - 0.75
2015/16 - 0.88
2016/17 – 0.9
2017/18 – 0.74
It’s almost like there is puck luck in hockey!

 

[Peiskos]

Kadri is 27, has scored 30+ goals in each of the past 2 seasons and is a great two way player. In fact he'd be the #1 centre on a variety of teams right now who are lacking C depth. Oh ya he's on an insanely team friendly 4.5 million $ contract for the next 4 years. His contract alone boosts his value. Leafs would be able to get a lot back for Kadri but Toronto just got an insane centre depth, why ruin that before we even get to experience it?

Makes zero sense to trade Kadri, unless the offer is a great one, which IMO would be a young NHL ready right side D, a pick and a high end prospect.

Ultimately its the best course of action to keep Kadri because running Matthews-Tavares-Kadri down the middle gives Toronto an amazing advantage over their opponents.

 

[Meeqs]

As an outside opinion with all the talent their biggest issue will be working around the Cap, so in that case they will need the most cost efficient players. Even with their depth down the middle with his contract being such a steal I don't see Kadri as being moveable.

While they do desperately need defense I think they'll have to find another way to get there.

 

[Randy Randerson]

5v5 Expected goals per 60 min played
2014/15 - 0.75
2015/16 - 0.88
2016/17 – 0.9
2017/18 – 0.74
It’s almost like there is puck luck in hockey!

have a look at the stark contrast in usage between 15/16 and 16/17 - much tougher competition, much more defensive zone starts - when Matthews came on the scene Kadri became the match up center. Not really fair to compare those years without context, and would be of very little predictive value

also keep in mind that he had a massive cold streak in 17/18 that he didn't in 16/17

combined with the fact that the trend you're highlighting here isn't a downward line, but travel within a range, I don't think its a compelling argument for decline. You're welcome to see it that way, but its definitely not a clear case

 

[Chet Manley]

The Leafs could likely get a cost controlled top 4D with Kadri being the major piece.

 

[seabass45]

Big fan, was hoping Isles could get him for Hamonic.

 

[Liferleafer]

5v5 Expected goals per 60 min played
2014/15 - 0.75
2015/16 - 0.88
2016/17 – 0.9
2017/18 – 0.74
It’s almost like there is puck luck in hockey!

Or that computer generated stats have f*** all to do with the actual game. You know why? Because as you've proven...you can manipulate them to show whatever you like when you don't use context.

 

[rhef3]

As an outside opinion with all the talent their biggest issue will be working around the Cap, so in that case they will need the most cost efficient players. Even with their depth down the middle with his contract being such a steal I don't see Kadri as being moveable.

While they do desperately need defense I think they'll have to find another way to get there.

That's what i'm gathering too, It would be tough to move a top 6 center with that output and that contract, but the thing is, I believe his value is as high as it will be because "as an outsider" playing 3rd line minutes and reduced pp time his point production will drop which is why I figured it would be a good time to move him being that his value is as high as I think it will be.

Originally I thought faulk would be a close value but after reading more and more about kadri it's easy to see he holds more value due to age/cap/production/defense. With that said it would be tougher to find a team willing to give up a defenseman that is close to his value.

Which brings me to another question, what type of Defenseman is Toronto looking for ? A shut down type or more of a powerplay specialist ?

 

[Frenzy31]

Kadri's value, like so many others will vary team by team based on that teams need and team assets. For instance - the Jets - yes he would be an upgrade down the middle, but at the cost of Trouba, the team they put on the ice wouldn't be as strong post trade. Basically - they are a much better team with Little and Trouba, then Kadri and Little. (As a Blues fan I would love to see him traded, because it would be better for us).

For Toronto to want to give him up, the fans are wanting a top pairing RHD. That may be pretty reasonable - I put him in the 3 tier (base players on tiers 1st being Elite, 2nd being solid, 3rd being ROR/Kadri/etc..

Truth is teams don't have any to spare dmen. Maybe the Ducks - and the Canes (Faulk)...

The issue really comes down to no teams being able to pay the asking price of Toronto. Not because of pure value, but because of team composition. The 5-10 point increase in scoring between him and the center he is replacing isn't worth losing a 22 minute dman over.

 

[rhef3]

I agree frenzy, his value is high no doubt about it, but not many teams are going to want to part with their top D for him.