Out of Town Thread VII

[Kriss E]

The same can be said because Mario’s hardship occurred in 92-93 and he never again had a recurrence thankfully. Orr had serious knee issues his entire career.

Lemieux had issues with his back dating back from juniors. He's always had to deal with major health issues, and to that you add the cancer. While Orr had bad knees, he didn't have guys hanging onto him to go for a ride like Lemieux often did. I don't think you realize in how terrible shape Lemieux was...there was a point where he couldn't even tie his own skates, he'd still go out and dominate.
The Pens even cuztomised his own stall so he'd be more comfortable sitting down and giving room for trainers to tie him up. The Dr. there even recalls how they would help him stand up and give him a little push to get him moving.

You should watch Lemieux documentaries, they give some good insight into just how bad it was for him.

It's not comparable.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Lemeiux, Orr, Gretzky, Crosby.

No, there is nothing crosby can do to make top 4. That ship has sailed and he isn't in it.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Lemieux is best of all time for me. What this guy did..is just insane. We never saw Lemieux plat at 100%. Never 90% either...Maybe the closest was one or two years of 75%. Rest of the time he must have been around 50-60%.
The guy had a radiation treatment for cancer in the morning...then flew to Philly to play..
The year he was diagnosed with cancer, he was on a scoring pace that would have him challenge Gretzky's high. He was doing that....with a cancer in his body. You realize how nuts that is? To make it even more insane, the guy was also dealing with a messed up back that needed surgery after that season.
It's a damn shame we never got to see Lemieux play healthy. He would have destroyed Gretzky's records imo.
Oh..and the year he had to miss a couple months to cancer...he came back and still won the scoring title in the NHL...Say what now? How the hell is that even humanely possible?

Lemieux is the greatest player to ever lived, there is no question about it for me. Not even debatable. What he was able to accomplish despite his terrible health is borderline mythical.

Sorry, i don't agree and many don't and you say its not even debatable. Well guess what, most ppl don't share your opinion.

 

[FloJack]

I thought they did it everywhere because most of the players are Canadian. I have watched the Winterhawks 6 times in the WHL here in Portland and they have always played the 2 anthems. So I just went back and looked at the tickets and they were actually playing Canadian WHL teams all 6 times.

, awesome!

 

[Kriss E]

Sorry, i don't agree and many don't and you say its not even debatable. Well guess what, most ppl don't share your opinion.

Well Bobby Orr agrees with me.
"What he can do, I couldn't do... He can do more things than any other player I've ever seen."-Bobby Orr on Mario Lemieux

''I told Mario on the bench, when we're on a 2 on 1, you're gonna be the shooter because quite frankly, you're a better goal scorer than I am'' Gretzky on Canada vs Soviet Union

''Mario played most of his career with his health around 25-50%''Dr. Burke - Pens physician.

I have that at least. Not sure what you have to counter the health arguments.

 

[koyvoo]

I’m watching this one. He’s with Keller and Schmaltz and just seems confused by what the two of them are trying to do. He’s like just watching them.

For the 3rd period they first tried him with Fischer and Stepan for a few shifts and he’s currently been benched for past 10 mins.

 

[Zorba]

Sherbak with the least amount of ice time so far tonight
I’ll be shocked if he’s on the kings roster in February

 

[Garbageyuk]

Jesus.
Galchenyuk already a Minus 2 tonight
I have a rotten feeling he’s gonna tee off on us on Thursday

Lol. He'll try for sure. I think he'll just embarrass himself. The kid isn't too bright. I think Domi shows him up.

 

[koyvoo]

Well after a brief benching in the 3rd, they actually did lean heavy on him in the final 4 mins or so of the game. Nothing happened though.

 

[Adriatic]

I see Sherback career really picking up in La La Land!

 

[The Great Weal]

Sherbak with the least amount of ice time so far tonight
I’ll be shocked if he’s on the kings roster in February

Ya but he scored in his first game! Many here were convinced that he didn't suck. Same shit different player.

 

[JianYang]

Well Bobby Orr agrees with me.
"What he can do, I couldn't do... He can do more things than any other player I've ever seen."-Bobby Orr on Mario Lemieux

''I told Mario on the bench, when we're on a 2 on 1, you're gonna be the shooter because quite frankly, you're a better goal scorer than I am'' Gretzky on Canada vs Soviet Union

''Mario played most of his career with his health around 25-50%''Dr. Burke - Pens physician.

I have that at least. Not sure what you have to counter the health arguments.

These guys pump everyone's tires other than themselves. That's just the hockey way.

My earliest memories of the NHL are the early 90s. By that time, the torch had already unofficially passed to Mario, and Gretzky was no longer in Edmonton.

I've always contested that Mario is the best, but I also feel like I have an inherited bias because I never saw Gretzky at his best.

I used to get fired up about these debates, but I think I can argue a good case on both sides if I'm honest with myself, but I still think the case for Mario is at least as strong.

 

[Habaneros]

Ya but he scored in his first game! Many here were convinced that he didn't suck. Same **** different player.

Dec 2nd

Waived: - Nikita Scherbak - Claimed by LA

 

[Kriss E]

These guys pump everyone's tires other than themselves. That's just the hockey way.

My earliest memories of the NHL are the early 90s. By that time, the torch had already unofficially passed to Mario, and Gretzky was no longer in Edmonton.

I've always contested that Mario is the best, but I also feel like I have an inherited bias because I never saw Gretzky at his best.

I used to get fired up about these debates, but I think I can argue a good case on both sides if I'm honest with myself, but I still think the case for Mario is at least as strong.

Not like that they don't.

The thing is...there's always been a debate for Gretzky vs Mario, based purely on their skills. It's like Lemieux's terrible health is just shrugged off or swept under the rug. Ya ya..he had health issues..doesn't really matter, 99 was better. Well no. Again, we are talking about someone's who back was so damaged his trainer or teammates had to tie his skates. They had to build him his own stall. They had to help him up. Mario said that his back issues gave him more trouble than his cancer..you realize that? Cancer...wasn't the toughest health battle..
This is what makes me give Mario the undisputed top spot. The personal battles he's had to deal with are incomparable. If gave him a similar bill of health the others had, I don't know why he wouldn't have surpassed 99's records.

The guy was just a living hockey superhero.

 

[OldCraig71]

Why were they moved to Denver?

Money and Gary Bettman’s quest to build the NHL market south of the border which seems hypocritical today when we watch US franchises on life support while Quebec City sits in waiting with a brand new arena and no team.

 

[26Mats]

Watched highlights of the Leafs.

Their 3rd line has Nylander - Kari - Marleau on it.
Their 2nd line is centered by Tavares.
Their 1st line has Matthews and Marner.

So, how many light years behind them are we?

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Well Bobby Orr agrees with me.
"What he can do, I couldn't do... He can do more things than any other player I've ever seen."-Bobby Orr on Mario Lemieux

''I told Mario on the bench, when we're on a 2 on 1, you're gonna be the shooter because quite frankly, you're a better goal scorer than I am'' Gretzky on Canada vs Soviet Union

''Mario played most of his career with his health around 25-50%''Dr. Burke - Pens physician.

I have that at least. Not sure what you have to counter the health arguments.

The health arguments are irrelevant to me. Players aren't rewarded for what they could have accomplished, but only what they have accomplished and although Mario may have had more physical gifts than Wayne, So did other players and Wayne still lapped them. Not to mention he was a much better defensive player and one of the best fore checkers to ever play the game too.

There are more ppl than Bobby Orr that agree with you, but you said it wasn't debatable. This debate has been going on for years and Mario usually comes in 4th place on most all-time great lists proving that it is very much debatable.

 

[JianYang]

Not like that they don't.

The thing is...there's always been a debate for Gretzky vs Mario, based purely on their skills. It's like Lemieux's terrible health is just shrugged off or swept under the rug. Ya ya..he had health issues..doesn't really matter, 99 was better. Well no. Again, we are talking about someone's who back was so damaged his trainer or teammates had to tie his skates. They had to build him his own stall. They had to help him up. Mario said that his back issues gave him more trouble than his cancer..you realize that? Cancer...wasn't the toughest health battle..
This is what makes me give Mario the undisputed top spot. The personal battles he's had to deal with are incomparable. If gave him a similar bill of health the others had, I don't know why he wouldn't have surpassed 99's records.

The guy was just a living hockey superhero.

Trust me, I've used every point in the book to make the case for Mario. This is not new stuff for me. I also believe that he would have surpassed his records too. Not only the health stuff but his early years, he didn't have anywhere near the support 99 had . 66's numbers exploded into another stratosphere when he got the first real superstar to play with him which was Coffey. That was already 5-6 years into his career

It's a case of what ifs versus a guy who came in at the perfect time with the perfect team, yet he was so far beyond everyone numbers wise in his prime which is also hard to ignore. I wish I could have seen him with my own eyes at his best.

 

[GSP2018]

Watched highlights of the Leafs.

Their 3rd line has Nylander - Kari - Marleau on it.
Their 2nd line is centered by Tavares.
Their 1st line has Matthews and Marner.

So, how many light years behind them are we?

Only took them a light year to get there offensively. Congrats. We should probably just give them the stanley cup today.

 

[Kriss E]

Watched highlights of the Leafs.

Their 3rd line has Nylander - Kari - Marleau on it.
Their 2nd line is centered by Tavares.
Their 1st line has Matthews and Marner.

So, how many light years behind them are we?

Apparently I heard we could contend as early as next year...
Some fans are delusional.

 

[Kriss E]

The health arguments are irrelevant to me. Players aren't rewarded for what they could have accomplished, but only what they have accomplished and although Mario may have had more physical gifts than Wayne, So did other players and Wayne still lapped them. Not to mention he was a much better defensive player and one of the best fore checkers to ever play the game too.

There are more ppl than Bobby Orr that agree with you, but you said it wasn't debatable. This debate has been going on for years and Mario usually comes in 4th place on most all-time great lists proving that it is very much debatable.

To not factor in simple health issues like..you know...cancer...shows a complete lack of objectivity.
I said ''to me'' it isn't debatable, and that's because of his health issues. Maybe it's because I work in the field of physical health and performance..I am aware of the gruel affects of steady performance, so to do what he did with his poor health, to me, is pretty much superhero-esque, and none of the other GOATs fall into that category. He is on his own.

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

Watched highlights of the Leafs.

Their 3rd line has Nylander - Kari - Marleau on it.
Their 2nd line is centered by Tavares.
Their 1st line has Matthews and Marner.

So, how many light years behind them are we?

Neck and Neck

On D anyways

 

[koyvoo]

Marner doesn’t play with Matthews. He’s been tied to the hip with Tavares all season long.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Only took them a light year to get there offensively. Congrats. We should probably just give them the stanley cup today.

why should we do that, we're contending this year...

 

[Doc McKenna]

The health arguments are irrelevant to me. Players aren't rewarded for what they could have accomplished, but only what they have accomplished and although Mario may have had more physical gifts than Wayne, So did other players and Wayne still lapped them. Not to mention he was a much better defensive player and one of the best fore checkers to ever play the game too.

There are more ppl than Bobby Orr that agree with you, but you said it wasn't debatable. This debate has been going on for years and Mario usually comes in 4th place on most all-time great lists proving that it is very much debatable.

Disagree., You can't sweep their talent under the rug. Its also why I consider Koivu a #1C. Major health issues and great skill and hockey IQ, but he would ave been much better if he hadn't been injured so badly.

Mike Bossy is another guy that should be considered top 10 all time goal scorer but people forget a lot about him.