Out of town thread VI

[417]

You mean something like Centre Ice or a hundred different streaming options exist and people can actually watch players league wide actually exists?

I call bull on that. Liar.

This happens all the time. People make an opinion which ends up being proven wrong, but somehow feel like a statement saying “I was completely wrong on that one. I was way off evaluating these players” would make them appear more foolish than hanging on to thier original opinion.

I've totally revised my opinion on Galchenyuk being a center...if you had asked me 18 months ago, I would have been 100% behind the opinion that he's a center.

But eventually, I came to the realization that maybe 5 different coaches aren't wrong and maybe he's not actually capable of being a center game in, game out.

 

[koyvoo]

I've totally revised my opinion on Galchenyuk being a center...if you had asked me 18 months ago, I would have been 100% behind the opinion that he's a center.

But eventually, I came to the realization that maybe 5 different coaches aren't wrong and maybe he's not actually capable of being a center game in, game out.

Exactly.

I can say - red is better than blue, red is better than blue and believe it with all my heart.

If eventually it is clear that blue is in fact better than red, I can feel a fool for not recognizing it at the time, but wouldn’t I be more a fool to not acknowledge my mistake and now admit what’s clear as day?

 

[Frank Drebin]

At the time of trade nobody could've predicted that Domi would perform the way he has during this first 25% of the season. I think scoring is up as a whole but Domi's been on another level. I wouldn't say it was a big fail of a trade, but within context and considering how poorly Galchenyuk was developed and brought along, it reeked of poor asset management.

It's in the past though, I think every Habs fan today can acknowledge or admit that it was a good trade.

How can you say it's poor asset Management when you trade a player struggling to live up to his draft position for a player who at the very least looks to be equal to him and a year younger?

"Trade him while he still has some value" .How many times have we heard that before?

Wouldn't you agree that Domi's current trade value is higher than Chucky's ever was?

 

[koyvoo]

I find the notion that Domi isn’t as skilled as Galchenyuk hilarious. The fact that it’s “not even close” is even more hilarious. The further fact it’s all because of confidence is side-splitting.

Actually, looking back at the original trade thread, I think you’re literally the only one who called it a good trade at the time. And, the reasons you stated as to why it would be a good trade for Montreal have played out to a T. I think that just tears some people here up inside.

 

[le_sean]

Actually, looking back at the original trade thread, I think you’re literally the only one who called it a good trade at the time. And, the reasons you stated as to why it would be a good trade for Montreal have played out to a T. I think that just tears some people here up inside.

I’m not sure how I felt about it at the time. I was wary of Domi because of his lack of production despite him being consistently implicated in the offence of his team. I do know I had zero issues moving on from Galchenyuk and I knew the team got faster, which was key. I’m glad it’s played out the way it has. I had no idea Domi would be this good, especially at centre.

I know I was right that Domi is capable of making plays at a high pace whereas Galchenyuk cannot. He’s a sniper, plain and simple.

 

[Kriss E]

@Kriss E regarding your post in the last thread where you're basically calling me a liar for saying I've watched "a bit" of the Coyotes and Galchenyuk this year.

No man, I'm not calling you a liar. I watched him ''a bit'' too, by that I mean I think one game half paying attention and a few highlights here and there. Do I think that is enough for me to have an informed opinion on how things are going for him there? Nope. So I wanted this quantified to see what that means to you.

I assure you I have, how much?

Never a full game, but I've watched at least 1 full period of half a dozen games...

I have no reason to lie and I'm not usually in the habit of doing so. If you insist I can screen capture myself watching them next time and post it.

That was my point though...''a bit'' isn't enough to know what's going on down there. 1 full period half a dozen times is the equivalent of 2 games...

Is that enough to get a real feel for how things have gone for him in Arizona?

No, I don't think so...but I've also got 6yrs of watching him in Montreal to know and recognize that this is the same player with the same strengths and weaknesses and despite everyone being convinced by Chayka's declaration that he was going to play C...

I don't see that experience lasting.

Maybe he won't play center, maybe he will, maybe they're just trying things out. Maybe they want to get more out of him and are seeing if using him on the wing, where he's been used for the vast majority of the past 6 years will logically be a better fit.
Who knows.

And again, it shouldn't be surprising if they want to stick with him on the wing. If I use a center in junior on the wing for 10 years in the NHL...I don't think he's gonna moving him to center is going to work very well.
Now Galch hasn't been here for 10 years, but it's his 7th, which to me represents the same thing.
The guy has spent a big big bulk of his development years used on the wing...That's where I expect him to play.
It doesn't mean management didn't screw up his usage here.

 

[Kriss E]

How can you say it's poor asset Management when you trade a player struggling to live up to his draft position for a player who at the very least looks to be equal to him and a year younger?

"Trade him while he still has some value" .How many times have we heard that before?

Wouldn't you agree that Domi's current trade value is higher than Chucky's ever was?

You can completely screw up managing your asset here, then get lucky on a trade.
Management signed Domi to a cheap bridge deal. That is enough to tell you they had no freaking clue he would be as good as he became. Drouin though...they believed he would be very good for us, so they signed him to [email protected].

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

I desperately want a guy like Kovalev back here. Subban was close but not quite there. Kovalev was must see TV every night.

Every night out of 4

Subban wasn't as flashy, but was giving it 100% on most games and was way more consistent,

 

[waffledave]

Also, didn't you rant and rave saying the habs lost the Domi- Galchenyuk deal and by a massive landslide ?

Your memory seems to suffer from a bit of hyperbole. I didn't rant and rave, and I never said it was a massive landslide. I said I saw it as a bad move because we lacked (and still do lack) top end talent and from a talent perspective, Domi vs Glachenyuk is a downgrade. I also felt Domi was available for less than what we gave as Arizona had already given up on him.

I've also been pretty upfront about how I misjudged Domi and have since said it was a great move. I guess you must have conveniently missed those posts.

 

[Frank Drebin]

You can completely screw up managing your asset here, then get lucky on a trade.
Management signed Domi to a cheap bridge deal. That is enough to tell you they had no freaking clue he would be as good as he became. Drouin though...they believed he would be very good for us, so they signed him to [email protected].

That's fine, I think they got lucky on that trade too. Sometimes you get a Backstrom/Toews with a 3/4 pick, sometimes you get unlucky and get a Chucky.

Point is, it was pretty good asset management to parlay a failed project into a new one, lucky or not.

 

[Saundies]

I really like Galchenyuk and he had skills that reminded me of Kovalev. I hated his drama, but Kovalev honestly was the most exciting forward I watched play for most of my life. I miss his skills, and his on ice attitude. Every game was worth watching without question.

I look at Galchenyuk now and the skills are there but the mind is not. He has no confidence at all. I feel like nobody was able to pick up on how to connect with a personality like his. He badly needs guidance but nobody seems willing or able to address that.

Domi is not as skilled as Galchenyuk. Not even close. But he is the complete opposite, basically at 100% confidence all the time. He has near Subban level confidence. And that can help you do amazing things. It's not like he's unskilled. He's just not as skilled as Galchenyuk. But his skilled plus his confidence equal a better player.

Something changed with Domi too. He was not this mature and confident before in Arizona.

Yesterday I watched some Kovalev highlight videos because I think I mentioned him in another thread, and the nostalgia just all came rushing back. The things the guy could do with the puck, and some of the goals he scored... it was on another level, truly. So skilled.

That year he had 82 points was beastly. It was awesome watching Pleky fly around with the puck as well.

 

[waffledave]

While the direct skill comparison between Kovalev and Chuck are not close IMO, I agree with everything else you said. I mean, end of the day, Chuck was a #3 pick (so he must have some skill) and while I think management had a lot to do with his stunted development, he didn’t do himself favors either.

Like you said, all of this probably made him a mess and I think his closest friends were moved/released (just my opinion and not fact) in 2015-2017, he didn’t have much of a support group left.

In terms of will and confidence, yeah, Domi at least so far is a completely different animal.

I really hope things work out for Galchenyuk as I always liked him.

Chucky when he first came up looked a lot more like Kovalev, skill-wise, than anyone else in a long time. He had that same way of stick-handling. This was more or less gone by his 2nd or 3rd year in the league.

It's not all on management. The player shares some blame too. But at the end of the day, management's job is to get the best out of these guys. Not everyone responds to the same approach. Chucky retreated into himself and was unable to pull himself out of it, which happens to every "f***-up" in every facet of life. Maybe management decided it wasn't worth it, that it was too much trouble to go through the hassle of salvaging this guy. Maybe they didn't think it was possible, or maybe they just didn't know how. I am convinced that with the right approach he would have turned into a totally different player. He was a totally different player when he first started here.

It's easy to say "it's all on the player" but that's a terrible way to look at things. You could be sitting on a gem that you never realized you had just because you deemed him a failure for not responding to your cookie cutter, and in the case of Bergevin and Therrien, admittedly AWFUL management style. You cannot pigeonhole super talented people. It doesn't work in sports and it doesn't work in life.

Domi doesn't need coddling. That's why he's successful here. He has more confidence in one arm than Galchenyuk has ever had, and when you walk the walk consistently you will look good pretty much all the time, especially when you back it up as much as Domi has so far.

 

[waffledave]

I find the notion that Domi isn’t as skilled as Galchenyuk hilarious. The fact that it’s “not even close” is even more hilarious. The further fact it’s all because of confidence is side-splitting.

Glad I was able to amuse you so much. Wasn't even very difficult. I actually wish it was that easy to keep me entertained.

 

[1909]

Chucky when he first came up looked a lot more like Kovalev, skill-wise, than anyone else in a long time. He had that same way of stick-handling. This was more or less gone by his 2nd or 3rd year in the league.

It's not all on management. The player shares some blame too. But at the end of the day, management's job is to get the best out of these guys. Not everyone responds to the same approach. Chucky retreated into himself and was unable to pull himself out of it, which happens to every "****-up" in every facet of life. Maybe management decided it wasn't worth it, that it was too much trouble to go through the hassle of salvaging this guy. Maybe they didn't think it was possible, or maybe they just didn't know how. I am convinced that with the right approach he would have turned into a totally different player. He was a totally different player when he first started here.

It's easy to say "it's all on the player" but that's a terrible way to look at things. You could be sitting on a gem that you never realized you had just because you deemed him a failure for not responding to your cookie cutter, and in the case of Bergevin and Therrien, admittedly AWFUL management style. You cannot pigeonhole super talented people. It doesn't work in sports and it doesn't work in life.

Domi doesn't need coddling. That's why he's successful here. He has more confidence in one arm than Galchenyuk has ever had, and when you walk the walk consistently you will look good pretty much all the time, especially when you back it up as much as Domi has so far.

Galchy looked excellent in his first season (lockout shortened) with Eller and Gally. They were properly sheltered on a third line and they did very well. Galchy was playing LW, and he seemed at ease there.

Montreal's nightlife + the over presence of his father did not helped him at all. At some point, the kid has to listen to his coaches, not his parents.

MT is bashed here, but he is the one who put him between Gally and Patches for the end of 2015-16 season, and for the start of the 2016-17 season before he was injured. He still was not a good centerman, but he was producing thanks to Radulov and Patches.
He came back totally out of shape. Normal ? I give him the benefit of the doubt.

Last year was awful. For Galchy but for the whole team as well. When MB talked about "attitude" problems, Galchy was in that basket with few others.

He might not had been used to his full potential, but he has to share the responsability of his lack of development and production.

 

[Kriss E]

That's fine, I think they got lucky on that trade too. Sometimes you get a Backstrom/Toews with a 3/4 pick, sometimes you get unlucky and get a Chucky.

Point is, it was pretty good asset management to parlay a failed project into a new one, lucky or not.

It's good for the team, no doubt. Good on them? Well...they were lucky. Not sure how much credit you can give when a big reason this is good is based on luck..
Kudos for targeting Domi though, no doubt, even if they are very lucky for him to have turned out as he has.

Little patience might be in order though, people speak of Domi like he's a legit top line center that will end with about 1ppg. It's anything but a certainty at this point.

 

[JianYang]

It's good for the team, no doubt. Good on them? Well...they were lucky. Not sure how much credit you can give when a big reason this is good is based on luck..
Kudos for targeting Domi though, no doubt, even if they are very lucky for him to have turned out as he has.

Little patience might be in order though, people speak of Domi like he's a legit top line center that will end with about 1ppg. It's anything but a certainty at this point.

It's natural to get excited about a player who has far exceeded general expectations a quarter into the season.

On the flip side, I don't think the vast majority of people are claiming him to score 80 points. Maybe they are out there but I don't think it reperents the fanbase.

I would have been happy with 50 coming into the season, especially with making the transition to centre.

 

[Adriatic]

So Chuck got moved to the wing

 

[jaffy27]

So Chuck got moved to the wing

Don’t worry, before days end, it’ll be Bergevin’s fault lol

 

[Adriatic]

Don’t worry, before days end, it’ll be Bergevin’s fault lol

Obviously lol

 

[Mrb1p]

Chucky when he first came up looked a lot more like Kovalev, skill-wise, than anyone else in a long time. He had that same way of stick-handling. This was more or less gone by his 2nd or 3rd year in the league.

It's not all on management. The player shares some blame too. But at the end of the day, management's job is to get the best out of these guys. Not everyone responds to the same approach. Chucky retreated into himself and was unable to pull himself out of it, which happens to every "****-up" in every facet of life. Maybe management decided it wasn't worth it, that it was too much trouble to go through the hassle of salvaging this guy. Maybe they didn't think it was possible, or maybe they just didn't know how. I am convinced that with the right approach he would have turned into a totally different player. He was a totally different player when he first started here.

It's easy to say "it's all on the player" but that's a terrible way to look at things. You could be sitting on a gem that you never realized you had just because you deemed him a failure for not responding to your cookie cutter, and in the case of Bergevin and Therrien, admittedly AWFUL management style. You cannot pigeonhole super talented people. It doesn't work in sports and it doesn't work in life.

Domi doesn't need coddling. That's why he's successful here. He has more confidence in one arm than Galchenyuk has ever had, and when you walk the walk consistently you will look good pretty much all the time, especially when you back it up as much as Domi has so far.

To be honest, Domi was seen similarly as Galchenyuk. The misconception that Domi isn't a skilled player is weird, he got drafted 13th overall despite being 5'8... That should tell you just how talented he really is.

 

[No fan fiction]

continue...

Out of town thread V

just for you, since you went on about the trade being a terrible one, danny kristo, playing with his 2nd team this year still will never be more than a 45 pts in the AHL guy:
Danny Kristo hockey statistics and profile at hockeydb.com

 

[waffledave]

Galchy looked excellent in his first season (lockout shortened) with Eller and Gally. They were properly sheltered on a third line and they did very well. Galchy was playing LW, and he seemed at ease there.

Montreal's nightlife + the over presence of his father did not helped him at all. At some point, the kid has to listen to his coaches, not his parents.

MT is bashed here, but he is the one who put him between Gally and Patches for the end of 2015-16 season, and for the start of the 2016-17 season before he was injured. He still was not a good centerman, but he was producing thanks to Radulov and Patches.
He came back totally out of shape. Normal ? I give him the benefit of the doubt.

Last year was awful. For Galchy but for the whole team as well. When MB talked about "attitude" problems, Galchy was in that basket with few others.

He might not had been used to his full potential, but he has to share the responsability of his lack of development and production.

I still think he could have been handled differently. Not absolving him of all the responsibility but when he arrived here, he was hungry, enthusiastic, and played with tons of energy. He was excited. I remember when he scored and kissed the jersey. Then I remember Pacioretty telling him "act like you've scored before" which I thought was a real piece of shit thing to say to a young player. And then he really started spiraling. Not saying he's blameless, but people fall into drugs and alcohol addiction for a reason, it's not just cause they like to party. I really wish management would have been able to connect with this guy and figure out what his deal was.

 

[kgboomer]

Dave Vest‏ @davest4yotes
Per Rick Tocchet: Nick Schmaltz will play alongside Clayton Keller and Alex Galchenyuk in his Arizona debut on Tuesday night. Schmaltz will play on the wing in the contest and Galchenyuk will be the center. Schmaltz was acquired from the Chicago Blackhawks on Sunday

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Dave Vest‏ @davest4yotes
Per Rick Tocchet: Nick Schmaltz will play alongside Clayton Keller and Alex Galchenyuk in his Arizona debut on Tuesday night. Schmaltz will play on the wing in the contest and Galchenyuk will be the center. Schmaltz was acquired from the Chicago Blackhawks on Sunday

LOL

So much for the "everybody knew Galchenyuk was not a center" self-righteous knee jerker brigade.

 

[waffledave]

To be honest, Domi was seen similarly as Galchenyuk. The misconception that Domi isn't a skilled player is weird, he got drafted 13th overall despite being 5'8... That should tell you just how talented he really is.

Domi's skill is not as obvious or showy as someone like Galchenyuk. Something's changed with him, cause he never used to be able to to shoot the puck as hard or as accurately as he has been doing this year. That's a new part of his game. And I think another aspect is the chemistry he has with Drouin. Nobody said he's not a skilled player, just that he doesn't have that high end talent that Galchenyuk did. But it doesn't matter, because talent is only as good as your drive will take you.