Out of town thread VI

[montreal]

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Out of town thread V

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[BushFireRecordsRedux]

Tocchet's comments on Arizona struggling in certain areas and needing to revisit Galchenyuk on the wing is interesting. I always felt that once Galchenyuk couldn't play C for Julien after not being able to play it for Therrien that there was something there. There just seemed to be a gap between how we felt about him as fans and how he was perceived around the inside of the hockey world. He didn't even make the u-23 World Cup team coming off his career year.

I look back to 2013 and it's frustrating from day 1. He wasn't playing C in Sarnia and he was dominating the OHL so I fully supported bringing him up but management/coaching staff thought they were bringing him up onto a rebuilding team and they could live with the struggles, team overachieved and neither Therrien or Bergevin had the balls to stick with a raw, 18 year old kid at C. It's a real shame, the time to develop him at C was right then and there and they let it go. Once they decided they couldn't live with it with him at 18 it was never going to happen. Certainly a lot of it falls on the player too, his game just never quite evolved like it should have. Not great hockey sense. I'll always root for him though, still think he could have a productive year down there.

 

[montreal]

I wasn't big on Galchenyuk as a center because of his skating, speed and defensive play. But I also hated how he was handled here by management and coaches. The skill is clearly there and he's got his share of the blame, but just frustrating to see another asset that perhaps if handled differently, not rushed, forced to get a skating coach after being drafted, it may have worked out better. Putting him on the 4th line or with DLR, not the best idea either imo.

 

[Goldenhands]

I wasn't big on Galchenyuk as a center because of his skating, speed and defensive play. But I also hated how he was handled here by management and coaches. The skill is clearly there and he's got his share of the blame, but just frustrating to see another asset that perhaps if handled differently, not rushed, forced to get a skating coach after being drafted, it may have worked out better. Putting him on the 4th line or with DLR, not the best idea either imo.

At some point, players have to face themself in the mirror and take their carreer in hands, Galchenyuk never really worked hard enough on the areas he had to improve, sure njuries didnt help his carreer but he had his own workout methods, was knew to be a party animal, had questionable frequentations and his dad was always in the mix delievering his own message... His skating and below average hockey IQ has always been in question, at least with Domi the effort is always there, his skating, stickhandling, IQ are high level, he is competent enough defensively and what about his shot!?! Everyone thought it was a weakness, dont know if he worked on it all summer long but thats certainly not an issue anymore... We got the best player by far...

 

[Goldenhands]

Mrb1p Schmaltz had all the chances of the world to play center for the Hawks, they tried him between Saad and Kane but had to move him back to wing cause of his defensive lapses, then they brought Anisimov down the middle and Schmaltz was moved on LW on that line...

 

[DAChampion]

At some point, players have to face themself in the mirror and take their carreer in hands, Galchenyuk never really worked hard enough on the areas he had to improve, sure njuries didnt help his carreer but he had his own workout methods, was knew to be a party animal, had questionable frequentations and his dad was always in the mix delievering his own message... His skating and below average hockey IQ has always been in question, at least with Domi the effort is always there, his skating, stickhandling, IQ are high level, he is competent enough defensively and what about his shot!?! Everyone thought it was a weakness, dont know if he worked on it all summer long but thats certainly not an issue anymore... We got the best player by far...

Galchenyuk's hockey IQ has not always been in question. That is something that people started to discuss later on.

 

[Chili]

Schneider is 0-15-2. That is a new level of bad.

He was in the Vezina discussion a couple of years ago...then he tore up his knee, hasn`t been the same player since.

It`s a serious injury for anyone but especially a goaltender.

 

[waffledave]

I really like Galchenyuk and he had skills that reminded me of Kovalev. I hated his drama, but Kovalev honestly was the most exciting forward I watched play for most of my life. I miss his skills, and his on ice attitude. Every game was worth watching without question.

I look at Galchenyuk now and the skills are there but the mind is not. He has no confidence at all. I feel like nobody was able to pick up on how to connect with a personality like his. He badly needs guidance but nobody seems willing or able to address that.

Domi is not as skilled as Galchenyuk. Not even close. But he is the complete opposite, basically at 100% confidence all the time. He has near Subban level confidence. And that can help you do amazing things. It's not like he's unskilled. He's just not as skilled as Galchenyuk. But his skilled plus his confidence equal a better player.

Something changed with Domi too. He was not this mature and confident before in Arizona.

 

[waffledave]

Also I f***ing hate him but Mark Stone is establishing himself as a legit star and I would make it a priority to get this player on the Habs ASAP before the whole league realizes how good he is.

 

[BushFireRecordsRedux]

I really like Galchenyuk and he had skills that reminded me of Kovalev. I hated his drama, but Kovalev honestly was the most exciting forward I watched play for most of my life. I miss his skills, and his on ice attitude. Every game was worth watching without question.

I look at Galchenyuk now and the skills are there but the mind is not. He has no confidence at all. I feel like nobody was able to pick up on how to connect with a personality like his. He badly needs guidance but nobody seems willing or able to address that.

Domi is not as skilled as Galchenyuk. Not even close. But he is the complete opposite, basically at 100% confidence all the time. He has near Subban level confidence. And that can help you do amazing things. It's not like he's unskilled. He's just not as skilled as Galchenyuk. But his skilled plus his confidence equal a better player.

Something changed with Domi too. He was not this mature and confident before in Arizona.

Galchenyuk had a lot of cool parts to his game and his puck skills arereally good but Kovalev's were generational. Kovalev, when he wanted to, literally could make anyone in the NHL look like a fool, Galchenyuk doesn't have that skill level for me. Kovalev in his mid-30s was making prime Chara look like Benn on a nightly basis vs Boston.

I think he definitely could have been developed better but there's also limitations to his game and that's speed and hockey sense. It is what it is. I also don't think the skill level of Domi - Galchenyuk is crazy far off, Domi has better speed, he handles the puck at speed, no where near the shot/release. I'd give the edge to Galchenyuk on raw skill for sure but I wouldn't say it's not close.

 

[the]

Keep on going with the Kovalev talk, I love it...he really was one of a kind. When he was pissed/motivated this guy was unstoppable.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Keep on going with the Kovalev talk, I love it...he really was one of a kind. When he was pissed/motivated this guy was unstoppable.

Kovalev was the Liam Neeson of Hockey

...whatever that means?

 

[waffledave]

I desperately want a guy like Kovalev back here. Subban was close but not quite there. Kovalev was must see TV every night.

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

Kovalev was unfairly and unfortunately maligned by the same doofuses who think "a 200ft game" is the platonic ideal of a hockey player. Who needs Pavel Bure when you could have Bobby Holik.

 

[Kriss E]

Tocchet's comments on Arizona struggling in certain areas and needing to revisit Galchenyuk on the wing is interesting. I always felt that once Galchenyuk couldn't play C for Julien after not being able to play it for Therrien that there was something there. There just seemed to be a gap between how we felt about him as fans and how he was perceived around the inside of the hockey world. He didn't even make the u-23 World Cup team coming off his career year.

I look back to 2013 and it's frustrating from day 1. He wasn't playing C in Sarnia and he was dominating the OHL so I fully supported bringing him up but management/coaching staff thought they were bringing him up onto a rebuilding team and they could live with the struggles, team overachieved and neither Therrien or Bergevin had the balls to stick with a raw, 18 year old kid at C. It's a real shame, the time to develop him at C was right then and there and they let it go. Once they decided they couldn't live with it with him at 18 it was never going to happen. Certainly a lot of it falls on the player too, his game just never quite evolved like it should have. Not great hockey sense. I'll always root for him though, still think he could have a productive year down there.

I don't think it had to do with having the guts to use him at center. The Habs became better much faster than what Bergevin anticipated. He had Plek-DD-Eller-Galch has potential centers for the top 3 lines.
-Plekanec was still a good young veteran at that point, extremely easy to use, can be plugged in any role. He wasn't going anywhere. Definitely not a winger.
-DD, coming off 60pt season, one dimensional, mostly used in sheltered offensive role. Upcoming UFA by season's end. Had a few decent games on the wing 2 years prior next to Gomez..but really that was like 2 games.
-Eller, traded for 2 years prior, went from 17pts as a rookie to 16g as sophomore. Is proving to be reliable defensively and has some offensive upside. Not comfortable on the wing.
-Galchenyuk, just drafted 3rd overall, big skilled center. Looked at the center Mtl has long awaited to get. Quite comfortable and successful on the wing in juniors.

The team came out strong out of the gate and due to the draft, it was a shortened season so it gave less time for management to evaluate their guys. So I can see why they moved Galch to the wing and gave the three more experienced guys the center spots. Made total sense.
What didn't make sense was the extension given to DD. That completely screwed things up. They should have let him walk. That's where they lacked balls and vision. Worrisome part was how obvious it should have been to do.

 

[Kriss E]

I wasn't big on Galchenyuk as a center because of his skating, speed and defensive play. But I also hated how he was handled here by management and coaches. The skill is clearly there and he's got his share of the blame, but just frustrating to see another asset that perhaps if handled differently, not rushed, forced to get a skating coach after being drafted, it may have worked out better. Putting him on the 4th line or with DLR, not the best idea either imo.

I see it the other way. I think center was great because it gave him more space to pick up speed.
As for his defensive game, I think it worsened or just never improved, as is the case for many of our guys under the 5-6 year reign of Therrien/Sly. How was Galch going to learn anything when guys are constantly chasing the puck around and just collapsing towards the middle. That's for the defensive minded guys. The more offensive guys were always cheating in defensive assignments as the guys would dump the puck out...so if they want to touch the freaking puck...well better be out of the zone real quick.
All in all, it was a terrible viscious circle to be in. I saw zero structure in our game here. The guys that were naturally good defensively, stayed the same...the non defensive guys coming out of minors...well they struggled to improve that aspect.

If Ovechkin can become better defensively, everyone can. But honestly, that's not something I even care to mention until they improve the offensive aspect.
For a guy like Galchenyuk, speaking about his defensive game when you haven't even given him time to work on his offensive game as a center...is a bit silly. (not talking about you...but management)

 

[Kriss E]

At some point, players have to face themself in the mirror and take their carreer in hands, Galchenyuk never really worked hard enough on the areas he had to improve, sure njuries didnt help his carreer but he had his own workout methods, was knew to be a party animal, had questionable frequentations and his dad was always in the mix delievering his own message... His skating and below average hockey IQ has always been in question, at least with Domi the effort is always there, his skating, stickhandling, IQ are high level, he is competent enough defensively and what about his shot!?! Everyone thought it was a weakness, dont know if he worked on it all summer long but thats certainly not an issue anymore... We got the best player by far...

That's BS.
''At some point'' can't be applied across the board. Sure, at some point the player needs to look in the mirror, maybe. But sometimes, ya, it ain't his fault.
I don't care to talk about this trade. I have no idea what's going on in Arizona, and I have not watched a single game of theirs.
Over here though, I don't think you can fault Galch of not working hard under Therrien. He played where he was told, got 45-55pt seasons including a 30G one, and he was having a great year at center until getting injured, Julien comes in and just moves him to the wing. He even uses him on the 4th line to start the POs if I'm not mistaken. We even used Paul freaking Byron over him as a center!

Ya...at some point you also need to be honest and realistic. The handling of Galch was an absolute farce.
You will not argue with me that Galch was such a bad center that he couldn't even be chosen over Byron. There was clearly something off between Galch and this organization, and it definitely was not about defensive liabilities seeing they had no problem using a bunch of other guys who were just as liable.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Kovalev was unfairly and unfortunately maligned by the same doofuses who think "a 200ft game" is the platonic ideal of a hockey player. Who needs Pavel Bure when you could have Bobby Holik.

It's going to take a very long time, and a few truly special players to divorce this fanbase (the same fanbase that watched le démon blond and countless others) of this silly predilection with offensively untalented players.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Also I ****ing hate him but Mark Stone is establishing himself as a legit star and I would make it a priority to get this player on the Habs ASAP before the whole league realizes how good he is.

Everybody already realizes this.

Also, didn't you rant and rave saying the habs lost the Domi- Galchenyuk deal and by a massive landslide ?

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

Everybody already realizes this.

Also, didn't you rant and rave saying the habs lost the Domi- Galchenyuk deal and by a massive landslide ?

At the time of trade nobody could've predicted that Domi would perform the way he has during this first 25% of the season. I think scoring is up as a whole but Domi's been on another level. I wouldn't say it was a big fail of a trade, but within context and considering how poorly Galchenyuk was developed and brought along, it reeked of poor asset management.

It's in the past though, I think every Habs fan today can acknowledge or admit that it was a good trade.

 

[Kriss E]

At the time of trade nobody could've predicted that Domi would perform the way he has during this first 25% of the season. I think scoring is up as a whole but Domi's been on another level. I wouldn't say it was a big fail of a trade, but within context and considering how poorly Galchenyuk was developed and brought along, it reeked of poor asset management.

It's in the past though, I think every Habs fan today can acknowledge or admit that it was a good trade.

Definitely a good trade, assuming things keep going in the same direction. But ya, there isn't a soul here who would have predicted Domi be producing at a 100pt pace around the 20 game mark.

 

[le_sean]

I find the notion that Domi isn’t as skilled as Galchenyuk hilarious. The fact that it’s “not even close” is even more hilarious. The further fact it’s all because of confidence is side-splitting.

 

[sandviper]

I really like Galchenyuk and he had skills that reminded me of Kovalev. I hated his drama, but Kovalev honestly was the most exciting forward I watched play for most of my life. I miss his skills, and his on ice attitude. Every game was worth watching without question.

I look at Galchenyuk now and the skills are there but the mind is not. He has no confidence at all. I feel like nobody was able to pick up on how to connect with a personality like his. He badly needs guidance but nobody seems willing or able to address that.

Domi is not as skilled as Galchenyuk. Not even close. But he is the complete opposite, basically at 100% confidence all the time. He has near Subban level confidence. And that can help you do amazing things. It's not like he's unskilled. He's just not as skilled as Galchenyuk. But his skilled plus his confidence equal a better player.

Something changed with Domi too. He was not this mature and confident before in Arizona.

While the direct skill comparison between Kovalev and Chuck are not close IMO, I agree with everything else you said. I mean, end of the day, Chuck was a #3 pick (so he must have some skill) and while I think management had a lot to do with his stunted development, he didn’t do himself favors either.

Like you said, all of this probably made him a mess and I think his closest friends were moved/released (just my opinion and not fact) in 2015-2017, he didn’t have much of a support group left.

In terms of will and confidence, yeah, Domi at least so far is a completely different animal.

I really hope things work out for Galchenyuk as I always liked him.

 

[417]

@Kriss E regarding your post in the last thread where you're basically calling me a liar for saying I've watched "a bit" of the Coyotes and Galchenyuk this year.

I assure you I have, how much?

Never a full game, but I've watched at least 1 full period of half a dozen games...

I have no reason to lie and I'm not usually in the habit of doing so. If you insist I can screen capture myself watching them next time and post it.

Is that enough to get a real feel for how things have gone for him in Arizona?

No, I don't think so...but I've also got 6yrs of watching him in Montreal to know and recognize that this is the same player with the same strengths and weaknesses and despite everyone being convinced by Chayka's declaration that he was going to play C...

I don't see that experience lasting.

 

[koyvoo]

@Kriss E regarding your post in the last thread where you're basically calling me a liar for saying I've watched "a bit" of the Coyotes and Galchenyuk this year.

I assure you I have, how much?

Never a full game, but I've watched at least 1 full period of half a dozen games...

I have no reason to lie and I'm not usually in the habit of doing so. If you insist I can screen capture myself watching them next time and post it.

Is that enough to get a real feel for how things have gone for him in Arizona?

No, I don't think so...but I've also got 6yrs of watching him in Montreal to know and recognize that this is the same player with the same strengths and weaknesses and despite everyone being convinced by Chayka's declaration that he was going to play C...

I don't see that experience lasting.

You mean something like Centre Ice or a hundred different streaming options exist and people can actually watch players league wide actually exists?

I call bull on that. Liar.

This happens all the time. People make an opinion which ends up being proven wrong, but somehow feel like a statement saying “I was completely wrong on that one. I was way off evaluating these players” would make them appear more foolish than hanging on to thier original opinion.