Injury Report: Out of Town Thread Part XXVIII

[LaP]

How were we getting that center? Galchenyuk wasn't the guy. Put aside Bergevin for a second. What parts do we use to get ROR or Carter when they were traded? We had peanuts to use at the negotiation table. Unless you had foresight and used Galchenyuk?

I think you did not reply to the right post?

 

[Habs Halifax]

I think you did not reply to the right post?

It's the right post. You say we would of been even better with Price not hurt and I say really... with those centers? How were we getting the centers we needed? Two that comes to mind are Carter and ROR but the only piece we had was Galchenyuk or Gallagher and we needed them too (maybe not Galchenyuk in hindsight but we all thought he was a keeper). Bealieu & Tinordi were OK prospects but do not measure up to Schenn and Zadorov. We had peanuts to use at the negotiation table

 

[Mrb1p]

Yeah, trade Galchenyuk as a potential center and steal away another team's center. Maybe we could of got Carter or ROR? But not so sure that was a smart move.

Who would you trade Kotkaniemi for today if you feel he won't turn into what we think? What center would you try to steal

If I was GM ? I'd fire Julien and hire someone with a plan to develop KK.

If I saw the future and I saw that KK lost both his legs in a freak accident and that he held no hockey value after that moment ? I'd trade him for Seguin, Dallas is a team that won't go anywhere with him and Im sure they could be convinced into a rebuild if they lay they hands on KK.

But it doesn't mean turning Galchenyuk into a C, it means getting the most value out of him, wether thats a center, D, winger or picks doesn't matter.

As of today, I don't think Bergevin got full value for a single one of his trade. Not on Subban, not on Sergachev, not on Galchenyuk. The only trades he got full or more value on were smaller ones that turned out to be miraculous like Fleischmann and the 2nd rounder to EDM.

 

[Whitesnake]

RIP Jim Gregory. Or mostly known for draft lovers as the guy who started the most interesting part of the draft....day 2.

 

[Frank Drebin]

not on Galchenyuk

I think if someone told us back in 2013 that Galchenyuk would turn into a 70+ point center between average linemates most of us would have been OK with that.

You can argue the trade return was a fluke, and MB didn't know that Domi would be as good as he is, but a 70 point center for a former third overall in a weak draft is good value.

 

[jaffy27]

It's the right post. You say we would of been even better with Price not hurt and I say really... with those centers? How were we getting the centers we needed? Two that comes to mind are Carter and ROR but the only piece we had was Galchenyuk or Gallagher and we needed them too (maybe not Galchenyuk in hindsight but we all thought he was a keeper). Bealieu & Tinordi were OK prospects but do not measure up to Schenn and Zadorov. We had peanuts to use at the negotiation table

it was worst, we had peanut shells with no peanuts in them to give......posters, some, want to deny this fact, pretend we had so much to give when in reality we had nothing. You can’t acquire anything if you have nothing to give.

And many of these centres were not being dealt to us.....Séguin?....lol.....Carter?.....lol....could never match......Spezza wanted to get out of Canada.....Kessler?.....wanted out of Canada
and go to west coast team.....

We had no chance

fast forward today though.....our team is stacked with young core players, we have prospects galore and picks to spare.....the iron is hot, no excuses not to strike now!!!!

I have little faith he can come through but still, I hope he can acquire top notch caliber players.

 

[LaP]

It's the right post. You say we would of been even better with Price not hurt and I say really... with those centers? How were we getting the centers we needed? Two that comes to mind are Carter and ROR but the only piece we had was Galchenyuk or Gallagher and we needed them too (maybe not Galchenyuk in hindsight but we all thought he was a keeper). Bealieu & Tinordi were OK prospects but do not measure up to Schenn and Zadorov. We had peanuts to use at the negotiation table

With hindsight AG+ for ROR (when he was traded to Buf) would have been a very good trade. Of course it's using hindsight (as i would not have done it back then) but well GMs are paid millions because they should not need hindsight

 

[Mrb1p]

I think if someone told us back in 2013 that Galchenyuk would turn into a 70+ point center between average linemates most of us would have been OK with that.

You can argue the trade return was a fluke, and MB didn't know that Domi would be as good as he is, but a 70 point center for a former third overall in a weak draft is good value.

I think Galchenyuk had more value than that but sure.

 

[Habs Halifax]

With hindsight AG+ for ROR (when he was traded to Buf) would have been a very good trade. Of course it's using hindsight (as i would not have done it back then) but well GMs are paid millions because they should not need hindsight

Agreed. None of us would of traded Chucky when ROR was available the 1st time. Heck, we didn't even want to give Poehling and a 1st (Caufield) for him the 2nd time around.

People can blame Bergevin all they want. My reasons where he failed are different than most and I'm not the type to exaggerate things to prove my point. His biggest mistake was not selling vets in the 12/13 season. Pride/rebound year just like it was last year. He has middle of the pack strategy. Sorry Bergevin, you need to sell Weber, Tatar, and Byron or your lose 100% of my support. Thank you for stock piling the picks for Timmins but it's time for Timmins and Ducharme to inherit what you build. You ran your leg of the race ok but someone else will take the baton and finish

 

[Habs Halifax]

it was worst, we had peanut shells with no peanuts in them to give......posters, some, want to deny this fact, pretend we had so much to give when in reality we had nothing. You can’t acquire anything if you have nothing to give.

And many of these centres were not being dealt to us.....Séguin?....lol.....Carter?.....lol....could never match......Spezza wanted to get out of Canada.....Kessler?.....wanted out of Canada
and go to west coast team.....

We had no chance

fast forward today though.....our team is stacked with young core players, we have prospects galore and picks to spare.....the iron is hot, no excuses not to strike now!!!!

I have little faith he can come through but still, I hope he can acquire top notch caliber players.

Agreed but people will still blame Bergevin for everything and ignore circumstance. His mistake was the pride/rebound year in 12/13 and not selling vets. He also went down the pride rebound year last year. He has middle of the pack strategy and this is what I don't like.

 

[Habs Halifax]

If I was GM ? I'd fire Julien and hire someone with a plan to develop KK.

If I saw the future and I saw that KK lost both his legs in a freak accident and that he held no hockey value after that moment ? I'd trade him for Seguin, Dallas is a team that won't go anywhere with him and Im sure they could be convinced into a rebuild if they lay they hands on KK.

But it doesn't mean turning Galchenyuk into a C, it means getting the most value out of him, wether thats a center, D, winger or picks doesn't matter.

As of today, I don't think Bergevin got full value for a single one of his trade. Not on Subban, not on Sergachev, not on Galchenyuk. The only trades he got full or more value on were smaller ones that turned out to be miraculous like Fleischmann and the 2nd rounder to EDM.

I'd be totally fine with Timmins and Ducharme and Molson hiring a hockey president to mentor them. Change your title to CEO Molson and run the buissines side of things. You have zero value to offer in terms of hockey operations.

If Bergevin want to go down the middle of the pack road any more, sorry, you need to go. We want a cup, not a playoff contender. Time for a hair cut... sell on Weber, Tatar, and Byron in the next 12 months or sooner but wait for the right return. Double down on the youth movement but don't rip apart everything. There is opportunity here to pick in the bottom 10 again and we need a star!

 

[LaP]

I'd be totally fine with Timmins and Ducharme and Molson hiring a hockey president to mentor them. Change your title to CEO Molson and run the buissines side of things. You have zero value to offer in terms of hockey operations.

If Bergevin want to go down the middle of the pack road any more, sorry, you need to go. We want a cup, not a playoff contender. Time for a hair cut... sell on Weber, Tatar, and Byron in the next 12 months or sooner but wait for the right return. Double down on the youth movement but don't rip apart everything. There is opportunity here to pick in the bottom 10 again and we need a star!

I'm not a big fan of Timmins but i would not be against him having a chance. He's definitely getting there and someone will give him his chance as a GM sooner than later not much doubt in my mind.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I'm not a big fan of Timmins but i would not be against him having a chance. He's definitely getting there and someone will give him his chance as a GM sooner than later not much doubt in my mind.

I think Timmins knows what he is doing. I like what I hear when I seen him in interviews. He would need a good president (hockey guy) though.

 

[DAChampion]

Agreed but people will still blame Bergevin for everything and ignore circumstance. His mistake was the pride/rebound year in 12/13 and not selling vets. He also went down the pride rebound year last year. He has middle of the pack strategy and this is what I don't like.

Bergevin made a few other errors.

I think that not firing Therrien in 2014 was a mistake. They had a decent path to the Cup finals in both 2014 and 2015, and they lost in large part because Therrien was mismanaging the team. Desharnais was being over-used in both years, which led to the offense not being able to score. It would have also been better to add Jaromir Jagr.

Those teams were not that far off. Part of that was that The Atlantic Division was the weakest in hockey, but it's important to take your opportunities wherever they emerge.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Bergevin made a few other errors.

I think that not firing Therrien in 2014 was a mistake. They had a decent path to the Cup finals in both 2014 and 2015, and they lost in large part because Therrien was mismanaging the team. Desharnais was being over-used in both years, which led to the offense not being able to score. It would have also been better to add Jaromir Jagr.

Those teams were not that far off. Part of that was that The Atlantic Division was the weakest in hockey, but it's important to take your opportunities wherever they emerge.

Yes, all GM's have made errors. But I'm not on the Bergevin hate bandwagon where everything is exaggerated into a negative. I think he has done a decent job but it's not good enough if we are building a cup contender. He has middle of the pack strategy which is a concern of mine. We don't want a playoff contender, we want a cup contender.

We are not going anywhere in the short term, it's the 3+ year range where our window might open. Time for a hair cut... Weber, Tatar, Byron would be the guys I find a new home and hopefully we can trade them where they win a cup. If Price gets upset, we tell him to wait for our kids to mature or tell him to waive his NMC. Primeau is looking good as a pro. We are not going to win a cup in the short term. Our youth is not ready yet and we are not going to find a impact UFA. It's a dream. Focus on the draft for a few more years.

 

[JuJu Mobb]

DraiDavid at it again.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

I bet we tried but who knows. Problem was we tried to get PLD in the draft and that was squashed by the Blue Jackets. Then we pinned ourselves in the corner with the NMC looming. I wonder if Weber was not offered, would we of still traded Subban?

Story won't go away. I'd love to know some behind the scenes facts... might come out down the road

Actually, the problem is Bergevin took too damn long, as Molson is on record saying they decided to trade Subban 6 months before.

And then he acted as if Weber qas what he was looking for all along. Tried to make a consolation prize look like it was the grand prize.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Actually, the problem is Bergevin took too damn long, as Molson is on record saying they decided to trade Subban 6 months before.

First I heard this. I don't think bergevin saw Weber as a consolation prize though, I think he saw him as the Sidney Crosby of defensemen

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Except he inherited a team that actually had all the pieces to build a cup contender.

Waaait.. Toronto had a bonafide top 10 goalie and a bonafide top pairing D (which Reilly is not)??

That's news to me.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

First I heard this. I don't think bergevin saw Weber as a consolation prize though, I think he saw him as the Sidney Crosby of defensemen

Geoff Molson Drops A Bomb About PK Subban Trade.

In another interview at the 17' golf tournament, he specified 6 months.

Yeah, pretty sure he would've prefered another trade. He got Weber at the eleventh hour, so I'm pretty sure they had somthing else planned and Weber was indeed a consolation prize.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Waaait.. Toronto had a bonafide top 10 goalie and a bonafide top pairing D (which Reilly is not)??

That's news to me.

You find the right partner for Reilly and they'd have a great top pairing.
A
Andersen has been as good as price was outside of those crazy 200 or so games from 14-16. Still a top ten goalie.

Up front, it's not close. They have 3 forwards better than anything we had during those years.

The legend of that 2012 roster grows