News Article: Our sad offense in numbers.

[Moskau]

It's our coaches fault that we have no offensive talent minus ROR and Eichel.

Sabres were on the exact same pace through the first 50 games last season. Go look it up.

People seem to forget how terrible our offense was last season before the trade deadline because watching the shiny new toys distracted them. We were on pace to be a historically bad 5 on 5 team up until the last 45 days of the season. I mean **** there was a 15 or 16 game stretch last season where the Sabres didn't score a single goal that RoR or Eichel didn't factor into.

 

[sabrebuild]

Sabres were on the exact same pace through the first 50 games last season. Go look it up.

People seem to forget how terrible our offense was last season before the trade deadline because watching the shiny new toys distracted them. We were on pace to be a historically bad 5 on 5 team up until the last 45 days of the season. I mean **** there was a 15 or 16 game stretch last season where the Sabres didn't score a single goal that RoR or Eichel didn't factor into.

Yup.

The back and forth on systems and Bylsma's skills are a waste of time. One side refuses to believe they exist at all or matter. Or they blame the gm or overall talent.

I think the gm has had several questionable moves I didn't agree with at the time or now. I think he also had several excellent moves.

But as to the overall talent of the team at this stage of the rebuild, I challenge the doomsayers to actually research the league and other teams rosters. Break down our talent at forward when healthy and tell me how this team has horrible talent and murray ruined the team, etc.

Kane ROR Okposo

On pure talent and production each of those guys is low end 1st line caliber at the bare minimum.

Moulson Eichel Reinhart

As an offense oriented line, this is the weakest compared league wide, simply because of eichel and Reinhart's lack of history. But based on last season and the duo should be more than enough to be a really good second line if Eichel had been healthy to start the year.

Foligno Larsson Gionta

That is and has shown to be a very good 3rd line, capable of winning its matchup against other 3rd lines and holding down top lines defensively.

Girgs. Grant dlo

Lets pretend that was 4th they were gonna start with, tho you could flip moulson and girgs. With the line above that 4th line is respectable defensively and is typical 4th line, meh offensively.

I don't include the young guys that have shown obvious effectiveness like carrier and baptiste, which could basically fix or replace the worst forwards on the team.

Point being is look at that group vs much of the league and you will be hard pressed to say they are not a middle level group on talent at the minimum.

The lack of production is definitely related to injuries and on the weaknesses at defense. Bylsma certainly carries some of that blame as well, but for the love of god can we stop pretending that this team's lack of offensive skill is the reason, or even offensive depth.

 

[stokes84]

Sabres were on the exact same pace through the first 50 games last season. Go look it up.

People seem to forget how terrible our offense was last season before the trade deadline because watching the shiny new toys distracted them. We were on pace to be a historically bad 5 on 5 team up until the last 45 days of the season. I mean **** there was a 15 or 16 game stretch last season where the Sabres didn't score a single goal that RoR or Eichel didn't factor into.

Exactly, this team doesn't have offensive talent, and when you take ROR and Eichel out of the equation, Scotty Bowman couldn't come up with a plan to get this group to score.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

Playing along with your cherry-picked stat, they're 8th in the league in SCF% when tied. That would lead one to believe that while they're giving up more shot attempts when tied, they're low-percentage shots that aren't translating into scoring opportunities.

Miss me with your "cherry picking" nonsense while you're ignoring other offensive events (shot attempts, which correlate better with success in small samples due to volume) and our poor scoring chance generation and total event volume.

Sure, we're not allowing many shots from dangerous locations, but that's because we're sacrificing our ability to generate any sort of offensive event in order to protect the most dangerous areas of the ice.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

Scotty Bowman couldn't come up with a plan to get this group to score.

Play the third most efficient ES scorer more than 10 minutes a night.

Give me my god damn Jack Adams.

 

[sabrebuild]

Play the third most efficient ES scorer more than 10 minutes a night.

Give me my god damn Jack Adams.

What do you want to bet Bylsma barely knows those numbers or respects them.

 

[GameMisconduct]

I think its funny all the Bylsma is the problem guys are so afraid to criticize Tim Murray. Just remember the system we play was all part of Tim Murray's master plan, and he wanted the entire organization to follow the plan.

http://www.democratandchronicle.com...an-lambert-taking-over-amerks-coach/84457890/

This keeps getting brought up, but it seems like a real stretch. The logic of wanting to have the developmental league coach have the same approach/system as the pro club has validty regardless of whatever specific system is being played. The Sabres are not the only team that has adopted this approach though you could point to Lambert's first year "internship" as somewhat novel. Given the comments about the Rochester vacancy before last season, this is a decision TM seems to clearly have made this decision before even seeing the system in play.

It seems pretty clear given the media comments in the last few weeks that TM is dissatisfied with some system elements and let Bylsma know fairly explicitly, leading (finally) to some adjustments.

It's entirely valid to disagree or find fault with the hire of Bylsama, or with TM seemingly having optimism about the potential system results. However it seems, again, a massive stretch to spin this as some belief that Murray has this specific system as a core part of his vision for the hockey team going forward based on wanting to adopt a philosophy of mirrored structure for both the minor and pro team.

I can't even entirely fault expressing some optimism after last season that this specific system could produce better results based on the last stretch of the last season, though I would disagree with that assessment.

Bylsma's issues are not solely the deficiencies in his system that have become increasingly apparent. His rigidity, some elements of his developmental approach, and in particular his seeming inability to adapt (in the absence of strong push from the GM apparently) overall but especially within a game are also very significant.

He seems like he relates well to the players and he brought structure that was sorely lacking (regardless of opinions about the particulars of that structure). He's an NHL level coach (something we lacked for quite a while) that had a track record of success, it's just increasingly clear that he's a flawed one.

 

[stokes84]

Play the third most efficient ES scorer more than 10 minutes a night.

Give me my god damn Jack Adams.

Wait a minute... Nick Baptiste? That's your brilliant solution to our scoring woes???

I think we've reached a new low.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

It's because their favorite players aren't cutting it, so it must be the coaches fault. For years, all we've heard on this forum was "two way players" and "skilled scorers are not important". Well, this is the team you asked for, and this is the result.

Spot on. Who needs goal scorers when you can play tough two way hockey ? The people you described probably are clamoring for Coach Orion from D3 as Bylsmas replacement

 

[OcAirlines]

Sabres offense not scoring much. We aren't winning anymore. Sad!

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

Wait a minute... Nick Baptiste? That's your brilliant solution to our scoring woes???

I think we've reached a new low.

Most other teams play raw young talent up the lineup when faced with this many injuries.

We're straight up not doing the little things that would help smooth over some of our scoring issues.

 

[Jame]

Looking for a stat...

TEAM Shots/Corsi by Defensemen at ES

Help?

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

Looking for a stat...

TEAM Shots/Corsi by Defensemen at ES

Help?

You'll have to calculate yourself off a spreadsheet, prolly.

Not involving the D is a big reason why our tied corsi for is ****, and I'd expect opposing defensemen shots to be where the gap in our differential comes from too.

 

[Jame]

You'll have to calculate yourself off a spreadsheet, prolly.

Not involving the D is a big reason why our tied corsi for is ****, and I'd expect opposing defensemen shots to be where the gap in our differential comes from too.

I was actually coming from the same perspective...

Our Tied and Leading shot metrics are awful....
But our From Behind shot metrics are really good (5th in the league)

We are coached very badly

 

[Icicle]

yeah what I'm mad about is the system they started this season with, then that changed for a few games after Murray got on Bylsma's case, yet somehow after those great games he decided to go back to the system but with minor breakout tweaks and the game is beyond boring and awful to watch, and the results are the same.

fact is Bylsma keeps pushing this awful, conservative system, when he has none of the players to do it, and I argue the system wouldn't even work with a team of Chara's and Marchands


Bylsma was run out of Pittsburgh for a reason

 

[Rowley Birkin]

Poor coaching has a negative effect but so does our D. Offence doesn't begin & end purely with the forwards on the ice.

Injuries are also a factor that is undeniable. Weather this is used as an excuse to cover up other deficiencies is another question.

Team has been disappointing so far lets hope they somehow find their way soon....

 

[Zip15]

yeah what I'm mad about is the system they started this season with, then that changed for a few games after Murray got on Bylsma's case, yet somehow after those great games he decided to go back to the system but with minor breakout tweaks and the game is beyond boring and awful to watch, and the results are the same.

fact is Bylsma keeps pushing this awful, conservative system, when he has none of the players to do it, and I argue the system wouldn't even work with a team of Chara's and Marchands


Bylsma was run out of Pittsburgh for a reason

Wut?

This roster, as presently constituted, is far better-suited to low-scoring, grind-it-out games than flash-and-dash, chance-trading with more talented opponents. No, it's not at all visually appealing, and it isn't intended to be. I don't know what roster you're looking at - I'm looking at the one with the offensively-limited defense corps and forward corps largely comprised of defensive-minded forwards whose strengths lie in goal prevention that, at the same time, is missing the two guys most pegged to be the top scorers on the team.

Like it or not, this is the style we have to play - and I would also argue that even when fully healthy, we shouldn't be "opening it up" in the manner that you're suggesting - but the players also have to finish the opportunities that we do get.

 

[Samsonite23]

Wut?

This roster, as presently constituted, is far better-suited to low-scoring, grind-it-out games than flash-and-dash, chance-trading with more talented opponents. No, it's not at all visually appealing, and it isn't intended to be. I don't know what roster you're looking at - I'm looking at the one with the offensively-limited defense corps and forward corps largely comprised of defensive-minded forwards whose strengths lie in goal prevention that, at the same time, is missing the two guys most pegged to be the top scorers on the team.

Like it or not, this is the style we have to play - and I would also argue that even when fully healthy, we shouldn't be "opening it up" in the manner that you're suggesting - but the players also have to finish the opportunities that we do get.

Because it's working so well?

How can you say that this is the only possible style we have to win games when we aren't winning very many games with said style, and we're simultaneously looking like garbage?

 

[Dreakon13]

Because it's working so well?

How can you say that this is the only possible style we have to win games when we aren't winning very many games with said style, and we're simultaneously looking like garbage?

We have maybe one line worth of remotely decent offensive talent, with the injuries.

We have three lines of bottom 6 defensive talent, AHL energy guys/grinders and aging underperformers.

Read the room, people. This is not a team you "try" a high octane offensive system with. Unless you think this would be more fun to watch.

 

[Zip15]

Because it's working so well?

How can you say that this is the only possible style we have to win games when we aren't winning very many games with said style, and we're simultaneously looking like garbage?

The flaw in your logic is you assume playing differently won't lead to worse results. ("But you won't know if you never try!!!!!" Nah, I see this roster and know that won't work, but thanks.)

It's amazing how quickly the theme of the first quarter of the season went from "I'll be happy if we can go .500 without (only) Eichel" to "Everything sucks because we're two points below .500 without Eichel, Bogosian, Kulikov, and ROR."

 

[Zip15]

We have maybe one line worth of remotely decent offensive talent, with the injuries.

We have three lines of bottom 6 defensive talent and AHL energy guys/grinders.

Read the room people. This is not a team you "try" a high octane offensive system with. Unless you think this would be more fun to watch.

Precisely. But good luck convincing some of this.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

Precisely. But good luck convincing some of this.

We could be playing raw young talent into the top 9, especially when form and gamescript dictate. We're not.

We could be involving the defense more in transition, especially Risto/McCabe. We're not. Not even those obvious, straight line activations that Ruff loved.

We could be leveraging to forechecking ability of our forwards to pressure the puck and generate possession far away from our own end, especially combined with a more active defense. We're not.

All examples of "opening the system up" without turning the clock back to 2007.

 

[Dreakon13]

We could be playing raw young talent into the top 9, especially when form and gamescript dictate. We're not.

We could be involving the defense more in transition, especially Risto/McCabe. We're not. Not even those obvious, straight line activations that Ruff loved.

We could be leveraging to forechecking ability of our forwards to pressure the puck and generate possession far away from our own end, especially combined with a more active defense. We're not.

All examples of "opening the system up" without turning the clock back to 2007.

I don't see any reason to believe we have the talent to accommodate the bolded with any level of success.

 

[Yatzhee]

The flaw in your logic is you assume playing differently won't lead to worse results. ("But you won't know if you never try!!!!!" Nah, I see this roster and know that won't work, but thanks.)

It's amazing how quickly the theme of the first quarter of the season went from "I'll be happy if we can go .500 without (only) Eichel" to "Everything sucks because we're two points below .500 without Eichel, Bogosian, Kulikov, and ROR."

What's worse than losing?
No matter how its sliced or diced the net effect is the same, a loss.
Aftrt all, when a team is winning they don't change formulas.

 

[Aladyyn]

I don't see any reason to believe we have the talent to accommodate the bolded with any level of success.

Are we having any level of success with the current tactics?