Our outlook for the 2016 season.

[GeauxPreds]

I think prime weber is better than prime subban defensively and probably a wash offensively. The issue is how much longer is weber in his prime? We saw how he was exhausted by the end of the playoffs which is completely understandable at his age and the minutes he plays. I think short term theres going to be a lot of growing pains with subban and josi building the level of chemistry and awareness that josi/weber had and people will question if we're the winners of it initially, but when we look back on this trade 2, 3, 4 years from now I think we'll all agree it was a no brainer.

As for the rest of the season I think we'll be right about where we were last year. Towards the top of the back but not dominant. Pekka right now is clearly the weak link and I don't quite have much faith in him to regain his form. Hopefully the coaches split off 25 games or so for him to let him rest some and start testing the backups to see who will need to take over. On one hand, almost all the top teams in the west got worse over the offseason just due to cap concerns along with some shifting in preparation of the expansion draft so perhaps in that regard we are poised to do a bit better, particularly if the inclusion of fiala provides more scoring depth across our forwards.

Also in regards of the expansion draft I think its really going to hamper any moves we can make during the season, it pretty much limits us to only trading on a player for player basis right now and if we're looking at upgrades it probably means exposing both smith/wilson if one of them isn't sent the other way(assuming we look for an upgrade at 2c down the stretch). Speaking of 2c, the other elephant in the room, ribeiro.

Now, I really hate ribeiro, which should come to no surprise to anyone, I think he's lazy and unproductive and I really would have rather seen him cut this offseason if we had anyone reasonable to take his spot but we're stuck with him for now. Yes he puts up points, but it feels to me he quits when it really matters.

So most of this has been negative so lets move on to the positive

Even with our 3rd pairing we still have undoubtedly the best defense in the league

Poile I think has really been making moves to put Lavi and this team in the position to win and I think the weber/subban trade extends this teams cup window significantly

Our Forwards finally look like a formidable NHL group if Fiala comes in and contributes 40-50 points playing top 6 minutes.

A lot of our young kids are coming up and playing valuable roles meaning we haven't had to overspend on veterans to flesh out our bottom six giving us the cap flexibility to improve our team as we have been recently.

I don't know how we'll end up and I don't have us pegged to win it all, but outside of these first couple weeks were josi/subban are learning each others tendencies I think we're gonna have a real fun team to watch this fall

 

[Pirate King Luffy]

I don't know where to post this, but what do the lines look like?

 

[wadesworld]

Also, just wait till subban starts all those giveaways. But you probably also think rinne is equal to price?

I must have missed the announcement of the Price for Rinne deal we turned down.

 

[Gh24]

Someone explains this to me and I will shut up about the subban vs Weber thing and won't even mention all of subbans turnovers which doubles webers in four years less time.

One of the previous posts brought up one good reason for this. In 10 games less, Subban made 600 (six hundred!) more plays than Weber. Obviously his absolute number of giveaways is higher.

Unless you scale the the giveaways to plays made then this argument is hard to be taken too seriously. I mean Forsberg probably has more giveaways than Salomaki, because he plays so much more with the puck. What do you make of that?

And when it comes to World Cup selections there is one simple thing that I think gives Weber an edge. Weber is an elite defensive defenseman. They also had tandems of Doughty - Muzzin and Pietrangelo - JBo and therefore more defensive skillset rather than filling the whole roster with puck moving ability.

In one on one comparison, I'd rather have the likes of Subban, Letang, Giordano etc. before Muzzin or Jbo, but it's not so black and white when you put together a TEAM and have to consider all aspects of the game, what qualitites different players bring and not just compare individual talent levels.

There is much more competition for "Subban's role" in Team Canada than there is for that more traditional defensive defenseman role. I don't know if MTL's weak performance weighted the decision against Subban, but it sure didn't help his case.

Also,
We definitely need a top winger, unless fiala is that guy

TBL:
Killorn - Stamkos - Drouin
Palat - Johnson - Kucherov

PIT:
Kunitz - Crosby - Hornqvist
Sheary - Malkin - Rust
Hagelin - Bonino - Kessel

CHI:
Panik - Toews - Hossa
Panarin - Anisimov - Kane

WSH:
Ovechkin - Backstrom - Oshie
Burakovsky - Kuznetsov - Williams

SJS:
Hertl - Thornton - Pavelski
Donskoi - Couture - Boedker

NSH:
Fiala - Johansen - Neal
Forsberg - Ribeiro - Smith

We fall short in C comparison, but not so much in wingers imo. Do we? Two 30-goal scorers, Mr Consistency (20g) and a question mark of Fiala. In my optimist I'm expecting Ribeiro to hit 50p again along with improved defensive play and FO-numbers due to that summer of his life, which I hope shows up in increased points for the whole line. Sure I'd take some of those wingers over ours, but that top line winger is not - in my opinion - as big of an issue as our C-depth or goaltending is.

 

[Viqsi]

He adapted with us last season fairly quickly, his points per game was .66, which was well better than the first part of the season with CB.

Yeah, but the first part of the season up here was unusually low.

I expect him to take off eventually; just not this year. Staying around the 60-point level. Of course, I could very easily be wrong on that score.

* * *​

Man I can post my opinion. A lot of people have fixed emotions.

What does your sarcastic self dislike so much about my post?

You think we did not need a winger to play with Johansen and Neal? You probably think Jarnkrok is the next kucherov and are pleased to have him on the first line. Truth is he probably slows Neal and Johansen down more than he helps them, he is not even close to their caliber, he is a third liner.

I remember the last time I heard this about Johansen and a "third liner" who had good puck possession numbers. I believe the end result was that "third liner" scoring 70 points and captaining an All-Star team.

I'm not expecting something like that out of Jarnkrok, but, c'mon. Three Superstar lines are a thing of the past and have been for ages. In the modern age, you spread out your talent so that it can't be easily shut down.

 

[maplepred]

One of the previous posts brought up one good reason for this. In 10 games less, Subban made 600 (six hundred!) more plays than Weber. Obviously his absolute number of giveaways is higher.

Unless you scale the the giveaways to plays made then this argument is hard to be taken too seriously. I mean Forsberg probably has more giveaways than Salomaki, because he plays so much more with the puck. What do you make of that?

And when it comes to World Cup selections there is one simple thing that I think gives Weber an edge. Weber is an elite defensive defenseman. They also had tandems of Doughty - Muzzin and Pietrangelo - JBo and therefore more defensive skillset rather than filling the whole roster with puck moving ability.

In one on one comparison, I'd rather have the likes of Subban, Letang, Giordano etc. before Muzzin or Jbo, but it's not so black and white when you put together a TEAM and have to consider all aspects of the game, what qualitites different players bring and not just compare individual talent levels.

There is much more competition for "Subban's role" in Team Canada than there is for that more traditional defensive defenseman role. I don't know if MTL's weak performance weighted the decision against Subban, but it sure didn't help his case.



TBL:
Killorn - Stamkos - Drouin
Palat - Johnson - Kucherov

PIT:
Kunitz - Crosby - Hornqvist
Sheary - Malkin - Rust
Hagelin - Bonino - Kessel

CHI:
Panik - Toews - Hossa
Panarin - Anisimov - Kane

WSH:
Ovechkin - Backstrom - Oshie
Burakovsky - Kuznetsov - Williams

SJS:
Hertl - Thornton - Pavelski
Donskoi - Couture - Boedker

NSH:
Fiala - Johansen - Neal
Forsberg - Ribeiro - Smith

We fall short in C comparison, but not so much in wingers imo. Do we? Two 30-goal scorers, Mr Consistency (20g) and a question mark of Fiala. In my optimist I'm expecting Ribeiro to hit 50p again along with improved defensive play and FO-numbers due to that summer of his life, which I hope shows up in increased points for the whole line. Sure I'd take some of those wingers over ours, but that top line winger is not - in my opinion - as big of an issue as our C-depth or goaltending is.

Good points and thoroughly explained. I can respect this, I just still have hard time believing the Weber/subban stuff. But I guess your right, time will tell. What your saying about team canada makes me think about our team as well, we traded in essentially a top defensive defenseman in the league who consistently gets 20 goals and 50 points (which is damn good for a "defensive" defenseman), and what we got for the fed waive defenseman was another Roman Josi which we already have. Except subban is not as good with the pick as Josi imo.

Another question, would people agree or disagree with me in saying our best defenseman is Josi?


As for team canada comment, I think there is just as much competition at defensive defenseman if not more than with offensive defensemen.
Defensive guys were muzzin, jbo, Weber, pietrangelo, vlasic
Offensive were doughty and burns.

Obviously doughty and burns are both better than subban and maybe canada only wanted two puck rushing defenders. So I can see why pk was not called upon, they had two better puck rushers with less turnovers.

I think I just miss Shea



I do agree with the view now that our biggest need is absolutely goalie and then second line centre more so than top line winger.

 

[Byrddog]

Maple we do not agree on much but part of what you say I agree with and part notso much. Both Weber and Subban are solid defensively. Yes you have a point about his turnovers but most of them are taking offensive chances. I also agree this will be a problem for the Preds Rinne will not be good enough to make the difference going forward. Thats impossible for most to accept but it is true. People have *****ed and complained that every little mistake ended up in the net. So yes one can expect more goals given up with Subban givin up the puck. You point about Webers goal numbers being higher is true as well Subban has and will not be a high goal scorer. Where Subban excels is playmaking and asst's he leaves Weber in the dirt there. And yes there will be growing pains getting used to Subban vs Weber and a number of people here will scream bloody murder. But apples to apples SUbban will be elite past the point when Weber is just a decent player.

The rub for me was Poile not adding to the top 6 to make up for the goals lost from Weber. What has been done by placing all the eggs in Fiala's basket will hurt this team. He will not score the 35 goals needed to make up for Webers loss and keep pace with a top line wing. Honestly if the kid has 15 I would be surprised. This missing production combined with Rinne's regression and the growing pains the D will have and that god awful mess in the 3rd pair have me less optomistic about this team than ever. I am gonna catch most of there games because of Josi and Rinne and to a point Subban the rest of the team I really can care less about. Thats why I am focusing on a couple other teams this year.

 

[predfan98]

Some one will play worse than expected ---jarnkrok
Someone will play better than expected --- Wilson--finally
Big surprises -- goalie-- backups giving Pekka a break and winning
Biggest bust -- Fiala
Biggest improvement -- johansen
Who will not improve but just maintain---Smith

 

[Gh24]

. He will not score the 35 goals needed to make up for Webers loss and keep pace with a top line wing..

14 out of 20 goals from Weber were PP goals. Forwards should see an increase in PP goals. Neal especially. I've said it before, but he's been used very poorly for someone who did a lot of PP goals in PIT.

As long as our PP works as well (or bad) as it did last season, we will have most of those Weber goals spread between PP guys.

 

[nomorekids]

14 out of 20 goals from Weber were PP goals. Forwards should see an increase in PP goals. Neal especially. I've said it before, but he's been used very poorly for someone who did a lot of PP goals in PIT.

As long as our PP works as well (or bad) as it did last season, we will have most of those Weber goals spread between PP guys.

Subban, as discussed, is a significant upgrade over Weber in terms of possession and driving play. The whole reason he was acquired is because theoretically, he will make our forwards more dangerous and productive.

 

[thecloser]

Man I can post my opinion. A lot of people have fixed emotions.

What does your sarcastic self dislike so much about my post?

You think we did not need a winger to play with Johansen and Neal? You probably think Jarnkrok is the next kucherov and are pleased to have him on the first line. Truth is he probably slows Neal and Johansen down more than he helps them, he is not even close to their caliber, he is a third liner.

And you think team canada invites lesser defenseman that's why Weber went and no subban??

Come on dude.

Also, just wait till subban starts all those giveaways. But you probably also think rinne is equal to price?

Hey! A mainstay doom and gloom fan what do you know?

If you read anything or listen to anything around the hockey world, you'll see the Subban for Weber trade was highly regarded as either a win for NSH or a wash until we see further. You cannot deny how good Subban is. He's won a Norris Trophy for God's sake.

No one has deep enough colored rose glasses on this board to compare Jarnkrok to Kucherov or Rinne to Price....now you're just reaching.

Sure, I wanted to see us trade for or sign a winger for the first line, but it didn't happen. Doesn't mean it still can't.

Give the season a chance before it starts. Maybe we didn't make the moves you'd hoped for, but we still have 82 games and a trade deadline where anything could happen in between.


Now on another note,

I would agree with you that as of today, right now, with what we've seen in Preds jersey's Josi is our best defenseman. But I think Subban will surely have something to say about that.

 

[Gh24]

Subban, as discussed, is a significant upgrade over Weber in terms of possession and driving play. The whole reason he was acquired is because theoretically, he will make our forwards more dangerous and productive.

Yeah this is pretty much what I'm basing my statement of forwards' increase in PP goals.
1) PP is no longer built around Weber's cannon of a shot
2) Subban's added playmaking ability

That comment about Neal is more of a rant about PP assets we have, but haven't really used. I'm really looking forward to what our PP looks like this year.

 

[DenverBoone]

I hope Carle doesn't suck.

 

[RomanEmpire]

I don't know where to post this, but what do the lines look like?

Forsberg Johansen Fiala
Wilson Fisher Neal
Arvidsson/Jarnkrok Ribeiro Smith
Jarnkrok/Arvidsson Sissons Salomaki

 

[Adz]

Some one will play worse than expected ---Arvidsson (but will still play well)
Someone will play better than expected --- Rinne
Big surprises -- Fiala is better than Forsberg--and Forsberg is amazing! Fisher hasn't lost a step!
Biggest bust -- Mine. Oh...Ribeiro
Biggest improvement -- Johansen
Who will not improve but just maintain---Jarnkrok

 

[Drake744]

Some one will play worse than expected ---Arvidsson (but will still play well)
Someone will play better than expected --- Rinne
Big surprises -- Fiala is better than Forsberg--and Forsberg is amazing! Fisher hasn't lost a step!
Biggest bust -- Mine. Oh...Ribeiro
Biggest improvement -- Johansen
Who will not improve but just maintain---Jarnkrok

From the day we drafted him and still to this day I've had a strange gut feeling about Fiala. I think he's going to be an exceptional NHL player and quite frankly I don't think it's going to take that long either. I'm not going to parallel him with Forsberg right now but I wouldn't be shocked if he's a big contributor for us this year, especially playing with a center like Johansen. (Dammit, isn't it nice to finally have a young 1C to say that about?)

 

[King Weber]

Some one will play worse than expected
- Josi-Subban won't be the unstoppable duo everyone expects them to be offensively. Still put up around 90'ish points together.
Someone will play better than expected
- Rinne. Has a bounce back season, finishing in the top 5 in many categories.
Big surprises
- Fiala has a similar season to Forsberg in 14-15, putting up 55pts. Top 10 in Calder voting.
Biggest bust
- Yannick. Bitetto, Carle and Granberg outplay him and make up the bottom pairing and 7th D positions, meaning he gets waived. Goes unclaimed. Won't report to AHL. Returns to Europe/goes to KHL.
Biggest improvement
- Wilson. Will score around 15-20 goals and 40-50 pts.
Who will not improve but just maintain
- Smith. Keeps up his consistent play and has his fourth straight 20 goal season.

 

[Adz]

From the day we drafted him and still to this day I've had a strange gut feeling about Fiala. I think he's going to be an exceptional NHL player and quite frankly I don't think it's going to take that long either. I'm not going to parallel him with Forsberg right now but I wouldn't be shocked if he's a big contributor for us this year, especially playing with a center like Johansen. (Dammit, isn't that finally nice to say?)

My son and I have been following him since then, too. And yes, it is nice.

 

[joemon999]

That Bitetto injury is going to hurt.

After watching the replay a few times, it looks like he may be out a while. I think we're probably looking at a separated soldier along with stitches to the head with a possible concussion.

I'm a huge Bitetto fan. Hope he won't be gone for a while.

Who replaces him for now?