Speculation: Our Contender Window

What is our contender window?


  • Total voters
    97

cgf

FireBednarsSuccessor
Oct 15, 2010
59,989
19,060
w/ Renly's Peach
I see nothing that suggest the Avs are going to be a fringe playoff team or worse in just 4 years. Ask this question on the mainboards and people will have a good laugh, HF Avs fans seem like an overly pessimistic group.

Some moves will need to be made for cap reasons but it doesn't mean the team will suck as a result. It's only becomes a real issue when you have bad contracts on the team, the have none, and make a bunch of short term moves. We just traded Barrie for good value because his next contract would become an issue for us.

Neither does anyone else.
 
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Freudian

Clearly deranged
Jul 3, 2003
50,414
17,182
Remember that Sakic went through the 2004 lockout where the team lost Forsberg and Foote for cap reasons. He knows what that does to a team and a franchise.

He's not going to put himself in a position where he can't keep his best players if that's the right thing to do. Beyond that, anything should be on the table.

As a side note, I'm not sure Avs 1st round pick is all that available this year with Avs having no second rounder. I'm sure if it's what it takes to get someone Sakic wants, it could be had but I suspect he won't be giving it up as lightly as HF-posters would.
 
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TruePowerSlave

Registered User
Jun 27, 2015
6,961
8,374
Neither does anyone else.
I dunno, many are claiming that that the Avs won't be a contender once the MacKinnon contracts ends. That has to mean that the Avs won't be a particularly good team in 4 years. A bubble playoff team or something like that.
 

cgf

FireBednarsSuccessor
Oct 15, 2010
59,989
19,060
w/ Renly's Peach
I dunno, many are claiming that that the Avs won't be a contender once the MacKinnon contracts ends. That has to mean that the Avs won't be a particularly good team in 4 years. A bubble playoff team or something like that.

Mayhaps we think that there's something between being a top contending and being a "fringe playoff team or worse"? Like the early-2010s Penguins or pre-ROR Blues, whom have been repeatedly referenced as examples of what a Retool could look like for us.
 

The Abusement Park

HFBoards Sponsor
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Jan 18, 2016
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I dunno, many are claiming that that the Avs won't be a contender once the MacKinnon contracts ends. That has to mean that the Avs won't be a particularly good team in 4 years. A bubble playoff team or something like that.

I think after the Mack resigning it will be hard to be a top tier cup contender. Doesn't mean we won't still be a playoff team though?

I mean who has said we won't be a playoff team post re signing Mack?
 

TruePowerSlave

Registered User
Jun 27, 2015
6,961
8,374
Mayhaps we think that there's something between being a top contending and being a "fringe playoff team or worse"?
If they are not one of the bubble teams, but instead a stronger team that is a playoff lock before the season even starts then they automatically become a team that can get it done in today's league imo.
 

cgf

FireBednarsSuccessor
Oct 15, 2010
59,989
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w/ Renly's Peach
If they are not one of the bubble teams, but instead a stronger team that is a playoff lock before the season even starts then they automatically become a team that can get it done in today's league imo.

So what about the Green Filth? They made the postseason for 6 straight seasons, without once being actual contenders...or is this were we disagree, do you think that they were contenders because they had been a playoff lock for the better part of a decade? If you agree that they were never contenders then were they a "fringe-playoff team or worse"? Or would you agree that there is a grey area in which we can find perennial playoff teams who weren't at any point contenders?

This 'if you're saying we won't be contenders, then you must be saying we won't be any good' argument always rings hollow to me because things simply aren't that binary. There's more than just top contenders, bubble/fringe-playoff teams, and tank-masters.
 

TruePowerSlave

Registered User
Jun 27, 2015
6,961
8,374
So what about the Wild? They made the postseason for 6 straight seasons, without once being actual contenders...or is this were we disagree, do you think that they were contenders because they had been a playoff lock for the better part of a decade? If you agree that they were never contenders then were they a "fringe-playoff team or worse"? Or would you agree that there is a grey area in which we can find perennial playoff teams who weren't at any point contenders?

This 'if you're saying we won't be contenders, then you must be saying we'll suck' argument always rings hollow to me because things simply aren't that binary. There's more than just top contenders, bubble teams, and tank-masters.
True true, maybe I came off wrong there.

I just don't believe the Avs won't be one of the top teams in the West 4 years from now. The core is too good, the prospect pool really strong for a playoff team and Sakic has been on point the last few years with almost everything he has done. We don't even really have a bad contract on the team.
 
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cgf

FireBednarsSuccessor
Oct 15, 2010
59,989
19,060
w/ Renly's Peach
True true, maybe I came off wrong there.

I just don't believe the Avs won't be one of the top teams in the West 4 years from now. The core is too good, the prospect pool really strong for a playoff team and Sakic has been on point the last few years with almost everything he has done. We don't even really have a bad contract on the team.

Eventually, the cap will force us to shed some of the quality depth that we have right now. It very well may not happen in exactly 4 years, but by the time all of Landy, MacK & Mikko are on new contracts and we've locked down our core-kids...even if we don't end up needing to pay Kadri beyond his current deal, Burakovsky is the goods, and Joe keeps coming in under market value with those long term deals...we'll be forced to shed the Calvert's Cole's, Compher's, etc. of the roster.

At which point we'll need to rely heavily on our post-top-10 drafting to provide us with that cup caliber supporting cast...*laughter break*...or we'll need to cash in on those more pricey auxiliaries for a shiny new batch of futures -- which Joe has shown a knack for doing -- and retool for a time; while the strength of our core keeps us afloat as a perennial playoff team with few realistic cup-expectations until the retool runs its course.

Hopefully, that Retool will look something like what the Penguins went through during the early parts of this decade (only with fewer core-player injuries)...a period in which they went out in the first round more often than not, while waiting for that new generation of cheap depth -- and accumulating the futures to pounce on Phil the Thrill when he became available -- with which to open a 2nd window.
 
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MarkT

Heretic
Nov 11, 2017
3,993
4,496
Clearly we have different thought processes on how contention windows are run. I think that's pretty obvious, so I think we can just agree to disagree.

I think that would be fair. All I was looking for was some acknowledgement of that, and that you actually understand my point of view and realize you were misunderstanding/misrepresenting it earlier.
 

avsfan09

Registered User
Dec 17, 2010
7,087
3,261
Nova Scotia
So what about the Green Filth? They made the postseason for 6 straight seasons, without once being actual contenders...or is this were we disagree, do you think that they were contenders because they had been a playoff lock for the better part of a decade? If you agree that they were never contenders then were they a "fringe-playoff team or worse"? Or would you agree that there is a grey area in which we can find perennial playoff teams who weren't at any point contenders?

This 'if you're saying we won't be contenders, then you must be saying we won't be any good' argument always rings hollow to me because things simply aren't that binary. There's more than just top contenders, bubble/fringe-playoff teams, and tank-masters.
The difference between us and Minny is top end talent and we actually have prospect depth.
 
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cgf

FireBednarsSuccessor
Oct 15, 2010
59,989
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The difference between us and Minny is top end talent and we actually have prospect depth.

giphy.gif
 

MarkT

Heretic
Nov 11, 2017
3,993
4,496

I think he answered your point quite well. Minny wasn't a contender despite being a perennial playoff lock because they lacked the high end talent and depth that we have. If this team with MacKinnon et al were a perennial playoff lock the same as Minny was, we could be considered a contender every year due to our high-end talent alone.
 

cgf

FireBednarsSuccessor
Oct 15, 2010
59,989
19,060
w/ Renly's Peach
I think he answered your point quite well. Minny wasn't a contender despite being a perennial playoff lock because they lacked the high end talent and depth that we have. If this team with MacKinnon et al were a perennial playoff lock the same as Minny was, we could be considered a contender every year due to our high-end talent alone.

How is addressing a completely separate question, not missing the point? Whether we have more highend talent or not has absolutely nothing to do with the point of the post that was quoted.
 

MarkT

Heretic
Nov 11, 2017
3,993
4,496
How is addressing a completely separate question, not missing the point? Whether we have more highend talent or not has absolutely nothing to do with the point of the post that was quoted.

Okay, I see what you're saying. I'll let you guys continue.
 

cgf

FireBednarsSuccessor
Oct 15, 2010
59,989
19,060
w/ Renly's Peach
Okay, I see what you're saying. I'll let you guys continue.

TBH I'm fine if we don't lol, avsfan09 has a tendency to only respond to what he wants to read rather than what's actually written...and I'd rather waste my time with those of you that actually engage in good faith :laugh:
 

ThatAvsGamer

Registered User
Feb 21, 2013
1,762
185
Ontario
Our best time to win a cup is when Mackinnon is on this golden contract. For as long as we have a solid core Mack,Rant,Landeskog,Makar, etc will be how long our window is.
 

avsfan09

Registered User
Dec 17, 2010
7,087
3,261
Nova Scotia
You’re trying to say Minny is comparable to us because we aren’t taking that final step and toiled in mediocrity right?

If thats correct than what I am saying is they never had the right core and that alone is the reason for mediocrity not their GM not buying into whatever philosophy you believe is right...

It’s also ironic you claim I missed the point when you’re clearly misunderstanding mine;)
 

avsfan09

Registered User
Dec 17, 2010
7,087
3,261
Nova Scotia
TBH I'm fine if we don't lol, avsfan09 has a tendency to only respond to what he wants to read rather than what's actually written...and I'd rather waste my time with those of you that actually engage in good faith :laugh:
Seriously do you have any examples when I’m not engaging in good faith? I honestly try to be fair and it seems like you’re the one trying to slander here...?
 

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