Ottersoep's Powerrankings

[Ajacied]

EDIT: Ottersoep is my name on a dutch site. Never mind that. Mods can change that one.

A little too early perhaps with the transfer window still open for most of Europe, so teams can still move up and down. I graded each team's current offense, midfield and defense/goalkeeper, so that's with all the moves made today. A higher rating doesn't necessarily mean a team is better. Some teams have better systems, coaches or are just on the rise. This isn't always included.

Anyway, this is always good fun for discussion.

	Team	FW	MF	D/GK
1	Barcelona	95	93	89
2	Manchester City	91	91	85
3	Real Madrid	91	90	88
4	Liverpool	91	84	90
5	Juventus	90	85	89
6	PSG	93	84	86
7	Bayern München	87	84	90
8	Tottenham Hotspurs	88	90	86
9	Atletico Madrid	85	85	83
10	Arsenal	90	84	81
11	Napoli	85	80	85
12	Borussia Dortmund	83	85	81
13	Manchester United	81	84	87
14	Internazionale	85	80	85
15	Chelsea	80	85	84
16	Ajax	84	79	80
17	Bayer Leverkussen	81	83	80
18	Olympique Lyon	82	79	80
19	Valencia	81	80	80
20	AC Milan	80	81	81
21	FC Porto	81	81	79
22	Sevilla	80	80	79
23	AS Roma	80	79	79
24	Everton	82	80	80
25	RB Leipzig	81	80	79

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Missed the cut:
Zenit Sint-Petersburg, Getafe, Atalanta, Benfica.

Click to read more...

 

[Vasilevskiy]

Leipzig, Dortmund, City and Atletico defense is underrated. United's defense is overrated.
Dortmund's offense also underrated.
Our midfield has too many question marks to be that high IMO, Bayern feels underrated.

Overall I liked the rankings

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Liverpool should be high. Atlético defence needs to be a lot higher and as Vas said United defence lower.

 

[Ajacied]

Don't forget that the rating for defense also includes goalkeeping. I do think Leipzig's defense could be a tad higher. Atletico lost their entire backline, I am a bit sceptic about giving them a higher grade for defense.

I don't take any midfield over Barca's. I agree about the question marks, but I think it will all work out great this year.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Don't forget that the rating for defense also includes goalkeeping. I do think Leipzig's defense could be a tad higher. Atletico lost their entire backline, I am a bit sceptic about giving them a higher grade for defense.

I don't take any midfield over Barca's. I agree about the question marks, but I think it will all work out great this year.

Atleti kept their best defender and still have Oblak a top 3 keeper right now. Sure they lost Lucas,Godin and Luis but 2/3 are over the hill and Lucas is average. They replaced all of those guys.

 

[S E P H]

Arsenal is nine spots too low. Pepe is going to run over the EPL like the rainforest by Southeast Asian palm oil developers.

 

[Live in the Now]

I think we're better than RM. Our midfield is better than that.

 

[Cassano]

Arsenal is nine spots too low. Pepe is going to run over the EPL like the rainforest by Southeast Asian palm oil developers.

he's the black Hazard imo

 

[Savant]

Would swap Madrid’s spot with Juve’s spot

 

[Havre]

I can live with that for Spurs. Overall I think the ranking for Spurs in attack, midfield and defence is quite reasonable (not that it is reasonable that Spurs is better than Liverpool at anything based on the last couple of days, but...).

Worse D then Liverpool is true. Worse attack than Arsenal I can certainly understand. If DDG bounces back slightly worse D than Utd is reasonable. All in all quite impressive.

The only team I think is completely out of position is RM. Don´t think that reflects the actual quality of the current team.

 

[Vasilevskiy]

Individually RM attack is that, they have elite players in almost all positions, but so far playing together the end result... Is not like that. Same for midfield

 

[Ajacied]

I think we're better than RM. Our midfield is better than that.

I had Liverpool third in my original try. I just feel more confident with Madrid having a stronger season with all their impressive buys. They bolstered their squad at every position and even got their successful coach back. Liverpool stood pat. Nothing wrong with that after having just won the CL, but I really feel they missed an opportunity here. I think their forwards and defense are both equally impressive. I can't see a single Liverpool midfielder cracking Madrid's starting line up, so I do think their midfield is that much worse. I can't see them winning the CL or PL this year, as much as I am rooting for them in England.

 

[Live in the Now]

I had Liverpool third in my original try. I just feel more confident with Madrid having a stronger season with all their impressive buys. They bolstered their squad at every position and even got their successful coach back. Liverpool stood pat. Nothing wrong with that after having just won the CL, but I really feel they missed an opportunity here. I think their forwards and defense are both equally impressive. I can't see a single Liverpool midfielder cracking Madrid's starting line up, so I do think their midfield is that much worse. I can't see them winning the CL or PL this year, as much as I am rooting for them in England.

It's fair that you'd say a single Liverpool midfielder wouldn't crack their lineup, although I do disagree with Casemiro over Fabinho and would never do that. I would take our unit as a whole with how they play, over theirs without a second thought. The coach is of course a large part of team rankings. ZZ has won a lot, but doing so without Ronaldo is new ground.

I do also question the ultimate impact of some of their transfers. Hazard is an exception to this of course, but I'm thinking about Jovic and Militao. Both are good players, but next season anyway I'm uncertain that they're equipped to immediately replace the players in front of them. It still remains unclear what will happen with Rodriguez and Pogba too.

Like Vas said, with them having elite players at every position, but it not working like that on the pitch, I think that's quite true. The same can be said for Bayern of late, which is why I thought you placed them pretty well.

 

[Havre]

No bigger fan of Modric than me. Best player I have ever seen live (never seen Messi live and Ronaldo was past his best by the time I saw him). And even if he is still sensationally good for his age in that position he isn’t miles better than what Liverpool got any longer. I rate Casemiro. Horses for courses kind of thing. Definitely not miles better than what Liverpool got. In my eyes on par. Several Liverpool players I would take over Kroos.

Name for name RM are stronger. In reality these days I think it is close and as a unit Liverpool are better.

 

[Vasilevskiy]

Militao is gonna be a cracking buy, I hate RM.

 

[Live in the Now]

Militao is gonna be a cracking buy, I hate RM.

Agreed. Only thinking next year though, when it's time for him to take someone's place, it's going to destroy the team atmosphere when Ramos is replaced. So, I don't really know what he'll do next season is all I'm saying.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Militao is gonna be a cracking buy, I hate RM.

They'll ruin him like they did Ceballos, Vallejo and Ascencio.

 

[Ajacied]

No bigger fan of Modric than me. Best player I have ever seen live (never seen Messi live and Ronaldo was past his best by the time I saw him). And even if he is still sensationally good for his age in that position he isn’t miles better than what Liverpool got any longer. I rate Casemiro. Horses for courses kind of thing. Definitely not miles better than what Liverpool got. In my eyes on par. Several Liverpool players I would take over Kroos.

Name for name RM are stronger. In reality these days I think it is close and as a unit Liverpool are better.

I also included Isco as a midfielder whom I am a big fan of. James Rodriguez, too. I just feel they have much more talent there, though I can definitely see where you are coming from. I think Liverpool's midfield is very compact and defensively sound. They are just much of the same. They just have zero creativity and offensive potential.

 

[Havre]

I also included Isco as a midfielder whom I am a big fan of. James Rodriguez, too. I just feel they have much more talent there, though I can definitely see where you are coming from. I think Liverpool's midfield is very compact and defensively sound. They are just much of the same. They just have zero creativity and offensive potential.

Yeah. I don't like fat Isco. No denying his quality when he is somewhat fit, but throughout a season I find him very average. But I realize I rate him lower than most.

To me this is almost two extremes. RM got huge names and guys like Modric and Kroos used to justify their "names" and then some, but not any longer - at least not Kroos. James also got this reputation, but even if he isn't a bad player it feels to me like his name is a lot bigger than his quality. Same with Isco.

Liverpool is almost the opposite. We got a couple of posters on here who hype Liverpool-players, but in general I think guys like Henderson and Milner are underrated. Maybe also Ox. The two first are clearly "role players" that are very well suited to Klopp's system. Not suggesting they would ever improve RM's midfield if they moved. Keita I guess could go either way. For me the only one Liverpool got with a better reputation than shown quality (at least in England). Ox, Fabinho (after a slow start in England) and especially Wijnaldum are excellent. For the style Klopp plays that is very good depth to me. And if Fabinho can continue with his improvements, Ox is fully fit and back to his best and Keita becomes the player Liverpool thought they had bought - then I would take Liverpool's midfield over RM.

In my head it is the same situation up front for RM. Maybe the young Brazilians will shine? I don't know them very well, but for the established players, even with Hazard, I would never have swapped Kane, Son and Eriksen for Benzema, Jovic (maybe Asensio if fit?) and Hazard. And I definitely would have taken the Liverpool 3 over RMs - even if I believe RM got better depth than Liverpool up front.

For me RM is behind at least Liverpool and PSG. This will probably come back and bite me, but I wouldn't mind Spurs playing them in the CL either.

I also think Ajax might be a bit optimistic, but I honestly don't know enough about what is left. I remember watching Ajax play Rosenborg and not long after Ajax is one of the best teams in Europe. Things changes quickly in both directions for that club - so you would know that much better than me.

 

[Ajacied]

Yeah. I don't like fat Isco. No denying his quality when he is somewhat fit, but throughout a season I find him very average. But I realize I rate him lower than most.

To me this is almost two extremes. RM got huge names and guys like Modric and Kroos used to justify their "names" and then some, but not any longer - at least not Kroos. James also got this reputation, but even if he isn't a bad player it feels to me like his name is a lot bigger than his quality. Same with Isco.

Liverpool is almost the opposite. We got a couple of posters on here who hype Liverpool-players, but in general I think guys like Henderson and Milner are underrated. Maybe also Ox. The two first are clearly "role players" that are very well suited to Klopp's system. Not suggesting they would ever improve RM's midfield if they moved. Keita I guess could go either way. For me the only one Liverpool got with a better reputation than shown quality (at least in England). Ox, Fabinho (after a slow start in England) and especially Wijnaldum are excellent. For the style Klopp plays that is very good depth to me. And if Fabinho can continue with his improvements, Ox is fully fit and back to his best and Keita becomes the player Liverpool thought they had bought - then I would take Liverpool's midfield over RM.

All fair points. I just expect Real Madrid to rebound and feel their acquisitions will fit in well. Liverpool doing nothing this window will come back to hurt them, especially since I feel they have a glaring hole at midfield (creative CAM). Mind you I am much more of a Liverpool fan than I am a fan of Madrid, who I despise, so I only hope to be proven wrong.

In my head it is the same situation up front for RM. Maybe the young Brazilians will shine? I don't know them very well, but for the established players, even with Hazard, I would never have swapped Kane, Son and Eriksen for Benzema, Jovic (maybe Asensio if fit?) and Hazard. And I definitely would have taken the Liverpool 3 over RMs - even if I believe RM got better depth than Liverpool up front.

For me RM is behind at least Liverpool and PSG. This will probably come back and bite me, but I wouldn't mind Spurs playing them in the CL either.

I like the potential of Hazard - Benzema/Jovic - Asensio, but it's also about depth indeed. Real Madrid can bring one of Benzema/Jovic in when they are in need of a goal. On the wings they have Junior and Rodrigo, even Bale to some extend. Liverpool can bring in Origi and Shaqiri. Liverpool's starting trio is world class, though. Well proven and they have plenty of chemistry. I do think they are a tad overrated around here, but I might get some hate for that. It seems as if one of them is always hurting a bit from the other two their successes.

I can see why most would like Madrid to be a bit lower on this list. I could very well live with them being behind Liverpool, Juve or even PSG. It's just personal preference and how I see them rebound.

I also think Ajax might be a bit optimistic, but I honestly don't know enough about what is left. I remember watching Ajax play Rosenborg and not long after Ajax is one of the best teams in Europe. Things changes quickly in both directions for that club - so you would know that much better than me.

Bear in mind that I rate Ajax still with van de Beek and Ziyech. Both are likely leaving, so expect them to drop a lot. Right now they still have their fast paced and exciting offense they beat and surprised plenty of teams with. Neres - Tadic - Ziyech is a strong attack. Promes is added, Bandé too. Huntelaar and Dolberg are decent pinchhitters. Their midfield and defense took a big hit, but the rating shows that. Ajax did well replacing them, though. Both from within as with acquisitions.

 

[Bure80]

MF Dortmund: Reus,Sancho,Witsel,Brandt,Hazard,Weigl,Delaney...81PTS
MF Leverkusen: Havertz, Bellarabi, Aranguiz, Bender Demirbay, Baumgartlinger 83PTS

Dortmund is underrated or Leverkusen is overrated.
Arsenals D is very overrated. Hummels > all Arsenal defenders by far.

 

[Havre]

I think Keita might be Klopp's idea of a creative midfield player. Similar to Pochettino his first priority is not creativity. Hard work, pressing and team players. Then you hope to find that special player that can do all the dirty stuff and add some flair. N'Dombele is that guy for Pochettino - Wanyama with skills. So few of those players - and neither manager wants to sacrifice team style to fit more skill outside of the front 3 (Pochettino more 4 than 3, but even his flair players like Eriksen, Alli and now Lo Celso are all very hard working).

Which is why I think it leads to underrating Liverpool's midfield a bit. It is not meant to be very balanced - it is meant to be exceptionally good at one thing.

Will be interesting to see how other teams react to Liverpool this year. I am sure managers have tried to come up with counter moves to being "steamrolled" by a midfield which isn't brilliant in terms of skill (that I agree with). Not that long ago Liverpool kept on giving away points to "weaker" teams for that reason - just couldn't break them down consistently enough.

 

[Ajacied]

MF Dortmund: Reus,Sancho,Witsel,Brandt,Hazard,Weigl,Delaney...81PTS
MF Leverkusen: Havertz, Bellarabi, Aranguiz, Bender Demirbay, Baumgartlinger 83PTS

Dortmund is underrated or Leverkusen is overrated.
Arsenals D is very overrated. Hummels > all Arsenal defenders by far.

Agree about Dortmund/Leverkussen. I had Sancho and Reus as forwards. They deserve a higher ranking, indeed.

Hummels might be better than anything Arsenal can come up with, but he didn't impress me much last season. Both defenses have their question marks and holes without having world class talent between the goalposts.

 

[Bure80]

Hummels might be better than anything Arsenal can come up with, but he didn't impress me much last season. Both defenses have their question marks and holes without having world class talent between the goalposts.

Hummels had a weak season till the winterbreak. Afterwards he was Munichs best D. He still is one of the best playmaking defenders in the world. He reads the game very well thats why his positioning is outstanding. His weakniss is his speed. A questionmark are Dortmunds external defenders. Schulz is solid. Pisczek ages. Hakimi is a weapon offensively. His defenisve game is the opposite. Morey looked very promising but he is injured now.

 

[les Habs]

Initial glance this looks off. Barca's midfield is too high.