Ottawa Sun stories Feb. 16

mudcrutch79 · Feb 16, 2005

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/OttawaSun/Sports/2005/02/16/932367-sun.html

Sounds like Pronger and Esche really undermined Goodenow and the union.

mudcrutch79 · Feb 16, 2005

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/WinnipegSun/Sports/2005/02/16/932291-sun.html

This is Strachan. I don't usually agree with him, and dislike him personally, but he makes a fair point here. The players made a tough decision in deciding to accept a cap. Now we have to see if the owners are willing to make a tough one in seeing the level rise.

Oh, Chayos1, please don't spam this thread with a link to the perfidy of Goodenow, I'm just trying to throw out some stories as they are published.

Chayos · Feb 16, 2005

mudcrutch79 said:
http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/WinnipegSun/Sports/2005/02/16/932291-sun.html

This is Strachan. I don't usually agree with him, and dislike him personally, but he makes a fair point here. The players made a tough decision in deciding to accept a cap. Now we have to see if the owners are willing to make a tough one in seeing the level rise.

Oh, Chayos1, please don't spam this thread with a link to the perfidy of Goodenow, I'm just trying to throw out some stories as they are published.

So your saying I should stop showing how Goodenough is trying to screw the game up and not let eveyone know that hockey will end as we know it if he gets his way?

Hmm BOB is that you?

Geez

mudcrutch79 · Feb 16, 2005

Chayos1 said:
So your saying I should stop showing how Goodenough is trying to screw the game up and not let eveyone know that hockey will end as we know it if he gets his way?

I'm saying you've linked your post about the subject to two different threads in the Oilers forum. I'm not even convinced that it's that big of a deal-it's an interesting point, but again, it's probably as much to give the NHLPA bargaining room as anything else.

Not every thought/post a person has needs to be shoved in everyone's face.

Chayos · Feb 16, 2005

mudcrutch79 said:
I'm saying you've linked your post about the subject to two different threads in the Oilers forum. I'm not even convinced that it's that big of a deal-it's an interesting point, but again, it's probably as much to give the NHLPA bargaining room as anything else.

Not every thought/post a person has needs to be shoved in everyone's face.

I just pointed out that there is a big point in their offer that is being missed and if you read it you will see that it is a stealth missle that will sink the nhl if they don't notice it.

I was on Cknw with dan russel and he knew nothing about it so a lot of people missed it. I have linked it in relevant posts hyping BOB's great offer to show people how he is trying to blind side the NHL.

The point was valid in both posts so I fail to see how informing the public is wrong. Not everyone reads all the post like you and i do!

mudcrutch79 · Feb 16, 2005

Chayos1 said:
I just pointed out that there is a big point in their offer that is being missed and if you read it you will see that it is a stealth missle that will sink the nhl if they don't notice it.

I was on Cknw with dan russel and he knew nothing about it so a lot of people missed it. I have linked it in relevant posts hyping BOB's great offer to show people how he is trying to blind side the NHL.

The point was valid in both posts so I fail to see how informing the public is wrong. Not everyone reads all the post like you and i do!

The thing is, it's not nearly the big deal you're making it out to be. Any deal that's signed is going to have an escalator of some sort in the caps. No responsible PA is going to agree to a deal that locks them in at $X for 6 or 8 years. Whether it's a defined figure-say a $1MM increase annually, or whether the increase is tied to league revenues, there's going to be an escalator of some sort in the cap.

This isn't linkage because if revenue were to blow up to $3 billion or something, the PA wouldn't be getting a cheque for that amount at the end of the season, as the NHL was proposing. Instead, what they'd be getting is owners with increased cap room the following season. There is no link between revenues and salaries. There is a link between revenues and how much the owners are allowed to spend the following year. That's not linkage.

This is the second time in twelve hours I've had to correct a serious misconception that you've had. Take some time and a) check your facts, and b) think before posting.

McDonald19 · Feb 16, 2005

Here are some more player quotes, from the LA TIMES.

Link

"To be this close, they have to make a deal. It would be disgraceful to cancel the season," said Mighty Duck forward Mike Leclerc. "If that happened, it would let down the fans, the players, everyone involved."

Said New Jersey Devil forward Jeff Friesen: "We have to get the game going again, at this point. If we cancel the season, who knows if we will ever be able to recover."

"We went further than the union has ever gone," free-agent forward Travis Green said, "maybe further than I wanted to go."

"A deal has to get done," veteran winger Teemu Selanne said after working out at Disney Ice in Anaheim on Tuesday.

"We have agreed to a cap. They agreed to take out the linkage. We're talking the same thing now. All it is now is agreeing on the right numbers."

chiavsfan · Feb 16, 2005

Again, if Goodenow would have alllowed a vote, it looks like there would be a season...instead, everything that happened was too little too late

mudcrutch79 · Feb 16, 2005

chiavsfan said:
Again, if Goodenow would have alllowed a vote, it looks like there would be a season...instead, everything that happened was too little too late

My clock has 6.5 hours until the latest deadline. We'll see what Bettman comes up with. My bet is that he's willing to sweeten the pot yet. The union will get a phone call at about 12:45, if they don't call him first, and get a new offer, and an hour or so to think about it. If Bettman can live with $45MM, I'm sure he can get a deal there.

chiavsfan · Feb 16, 2005

I hope he can, but things don't seem to positive do they?

chiavsfan · Feb 16, 2005

Hey Mr. Crutch, what do you do that keep you up (or gets you up) at this fine hour)

mudcrutch79 · Feb 16, 2005

University student on reading week with a **** load of reading to catch up, a factum to write, and miles to go before I rest. Probably because I'm pissing time away on this nonsense.

chiavsfan · Feb 16, 2005

Well don't get in to News Radio like me, or you'll be up at this time every single day, for the rest fo your life

The Maltais Falcon · Feb 16, 2005

My favorite quote from the Strachan article:

Combover Boy said:
"Owners have been screaming at Bettman that they had been promised a linkage system and that they have been betrayed.

Players have been screaming at NHLPA executive director Bob Goodenow that the key issue in this lockout was the total rejection of a salary cap, and now the union has reversed its stand."

By coming off a cap, the union "reversed its stand" but by coming off linkage, the owners were "betrayed." That's hilarious, Al!

mudcrutch79 · Feb 16, 2005

chiavsfan said:
Well don't get in to News Radio like me, or you'll be up at this time every single day, for the rest fo your life

You've got the inside scoop on everything though...right? I mean you know how it will all go down before we do.

reckoning · Feb 16, 2005

I thought that might be an intelligent article to read,but when i saw the words "by Bruce Garrioch" my hopes were shattered.Garrioch and his co-worker Don Brennan are the two most incompetent,unprofessional sports reporters in North America.

tantalum · Feb 16, 2005

mudcrutch79 said:
http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/WinnipegSun/Sports/2005/02/16/932291-sun.html

This is Strachan. I don't usually agree with him, and dislike him personally, but he makes a fair point here. The players made a tough decision in deciding to accept a cap. Now we have to see if the owners are willing to make a tough one in seeing the level rise.

They did. They've raised it from $31 mil to $35 mil to $42.5 + 2.2 Mil. They've dropped the linkage. They've given up insulating themselves if revenues drop significantly. They are willing to potentially take a further financial hit.

While the players jumped the cap hurdle and deserve some pats on the back the cap that was proposed was WAY too high and needs to come down even further than the $49 mil they've brought it down. They need to get rid of the BS exemptions.

chiavsfan · Feb 16, 2005

You've got the inside scoop on everything though...right? I mean you know how it will all go down before we do.

You would think so...but my little community here is really boring...In another year, mr Chiavsfan is going to start looking for a bigger market to work in.

As I have NO inside information on any of the NHL crud, and my wife is more mad than anyone...she says without my hockey fix, I have become grumpy

The Maltais Falcon · Feb 16, 2005

tantalum said:
While the players jumped the cap hurdle and deserve some pats on the back the cap that was proposed was WAY too high and needs to come down even further than the $49 mil they've brought it down. They need to get rid of the BS exemptions.

They also need to get rid of the BS about how the cap should index itself to revenues if revenues rise and stay constant should they fall. It's either linkage all the way or not at all, Bob.

mudcrutch79 · Feb 16, 2005

The Maltais Falcon said:
They also need to get rid of the BS about how the cap should index itself to revenues if revenues rise and stay constant should they fall. It's either linkage all the way or not at all, Bob.

Seriously...read the rest of the thread and then post. I'm quoting from my own post IN THIS THREAD.

mudcrutch79-FROM THIS ****ING THREAD said:
The thing is, it's not nearly the big deal you're making it out to be. Any deal that's signed is going to have an escalator of some sort in the caps. No responsible PA is going to agree to a deal that locks them in at $X for 6 or 8 years. Whether it's a defined figure-say a $1MM increase annually, or whether the increase is tied to league revenues, there's going to be an escalator of some sort in the cap.

This isn't linkage because if revenue were to blow up to $3 billion or something, the PA wouldn't be getting a cheque for that amount at the end of the season, as the NHL was proposing. Instead, what they'd be getting is owners with increased cap room the following season. There is no link between revenues and salaries. There is a link between revenues and how much the owners are allowed to spend the following year. That's not linkage.

This is the second time in twelve hours I've had to correct a serious misconception that you've had. Take some time and a) check your facts, and b) think before posting.

John Flyers Fan · Feb 16, 2005

More info on Esche and his role

http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/sports/10911033.htm

chiavsfan · Feb 16, 2005

Nice to see the players working, while Goodenow still seems to be a deaf ear. This should have been thought about months ago...horrible situation

Russian Fan · Feb 16, 2005

The Maltais Falcon said:
My favorite quote from the Strachan article:

By coming off a cap, the union "reversed its stand" but by coming off linkage, the owners were "betrayed." That's hilarious, Al!

Like I said it's funny because I've been through negociations & hockey or a real business it's ALWAYS THE SAME at the end.

THERE'S A DEAL & NO ONE, I MEAN NO ONE FEEL IT'S A GOOD DEAL !!!

AND THAT'S WHY IT'S GOOD DEAL because THERE'S NO WINNERS in their minds.

Ottawa Sun stories Feb. 16

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Hope for the best. Expect the worst

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