Ottawa Senators announce completion of 135 million financing | MOD warning post #303

[Ray Kinsella]

IIRC, Melnyk fired Roy Mlakr with little explanation (probably to save money) and replaced win with Leeder (probably saved over $1million). IMO,Mlakr was the guy that righted the ship back in the day when the Sens were a Mickey Mouse organization. We could certainly use a guy of Mlakr right now.

Yes, Leeder was promoted. But he’s one of the 3 amigos (Firestone and Sexton) to have brought the Sens back. He was there from day one.

I was never really sure what to make of Mlakar.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

Yes, Leeder was promoted. But he’s one of the 3 amigos (Firestone and Sexton) to have brought the Sens back. He was there from day one.

I was never really sure what to make of Mlakar.

But remember, we have to appreciate Melnyk for apparently saving the team but shit on Leeder. Not like he had anything to do with Ottawa having a team or anything.

 

[DrunkUncleDenis]

Folks, just because another poster has a strong contrarian opinion, does not mean that they are a troll. Respect the poster, critique the post. I'll be zero tolerance on calling others trolls going forward.

 

[NorthCoast]

So you say...

I'm lost.

As far as I know Leeder was let go for two reasons:

- Lebreton. Anselmi was brought in for his experience with these big projects. (Never mind that Leeder is the won that was involved in preparing the winning bid)

- Ticketing Strategy. Leeder always believed that you build through the community. That long-term the best way to build a strong fanbase and capture the next generation of Leaf & Hab fans was to get bodies in seats. This is why the sens ran so many community promotions while he was in charge. This meant 30-40% of the tickets were heavily discounted...but the stadium was full. Melnyk saw the discounting and large sales team needed to operate it as waste. They streamlined the pricing (ie: raised), stopped a lot of the free tickets, and attendance went down but revenue didn't because every ticket was now full value.

So revenue from tickets hasn't really changed, Anselmi is gone, and the team now has other revenue streams (TSN) to supplement the revenue gap from tickets. So you really haven't improved at all from when Leeder was there and with Anselmi gone you have probably gone backwards even by Melnyk's measure.

What you lose with Leeder was the connection to the local business community and this cannot be understated. Ottawa's business community is very small at the top. I remember someone behind the Ottawa Celebrity Sports Dinner told me that 100 families donate like 70-80% of the money local charities receive every year. Attend a Celebrity Sports Dinner, or a Gold Plate Dinner, etc and you can barely walk through the crowd with all the backscratching going on. If you want to be a success in Ottawa, it sure helps to be on the good side of the Greenbergs, Ages, Shindlers, Ramphos, Gianetti, Frangioni, Bassi, Taggart, Foustanellas, etc, etc, etc

How do you think these guys feel about Melnyk proposing to move the team after they have spent decades helping to build up and support the Sens foundation with millions in charitable donations?

 

[Zorf]

Folks, just because another poster has a strong contrarian opinion, does not mean that they are a troll. Respect the poster, critique the post. I'll be zero tolerance on calling others trolls going forward.

Trolling my ability to call people trolls!

But I respect you.

 

[Zorf]

You are right, I am a person like everyone else. And contrary to what many of you believe, I respect the blue collar types much more than the white collar. I go out of my way for them because they are what makes this world go round and round. Remember, if you are cut you bleed just like me and the rest of us.

I grew up doing blue collar jobs and now I'm working in a white collar office. I hate it.

Fun fact about bleeding. The amount of times I've rubbed dirt on a cut while on a job site to make it stop bleeding would make most of my co-workers puke. But holy hell does it ever work well.

My crowning glory was when I smashed the balls out of my thumb with a hammer, so to prevent my thumb nail from falling off, I took the smallest drill bit I had and drilled a hole through my thumb nail. Oh a dirty job site. It hurt sooo much when I broke through the nail and drilled into the soft skin underneath. But the relief was also immediate. Would do again.

 

[Take a Bath Son]

indirectly related to the lebreton development-just outside the Rendez Vous project zone. City planning committee today approved 900 albert at bayview station. 65 stories, 56 stories and 27 stories. the tallest one proposed at 232 metres, if built today would be the 9th tallest in canada and taller than any building in canada outside Toronto, Calgary or Edmonton. Goes to full council tomorrow.

http://webcast.ottawa.ca/plan/All_I...EVISED site plan and elevations June 2018.PDF

This city is going to look a whole lot different in a few years.

 

[Wondercarrot]

Everyone is at fault, especially the players for mailing it in last year.

Leeder, the marketing guru, is also to blame. Too bad he was so loved in this city , @Wondercarrot , that no one showed up and got him fired!

I’m sorry you don’t understand the difference between letting someone go, and treating them like shit and smearing their name on the way out. You also don’t seem to understand the impact that had on corporate support which is already tough in this city.

 

[Wondercarrot]

So you say...

Yeah, I do.

 

[coladin]

I’m sorry you don’t understand the difference between letting someone go, and treating them like **** and smearing their name on the way out. You also don’t seem to understand the impact that had on corporate support which is already tough in this city.

I didn't realize that corporation had a human side to them. Most of the ones I know are pretty ambivalent to the goings on of Leeder/Melnyk. Corporate support is quite good here. Club Bell still has a waiting list. I don't even think most corporation care if they win or not. They just need to park/move money.

I don't think there is any easy way to remove someone like Leeder, but it had to be done. The hot dogs needed to be improved.

 

[DrEasy]

If you want to be a success in Ottawa, it sure helps to be on the good side of the Greenbergs, Ages, Shindlers, Ramphos, Gianetti, Frangioni, Bassi, Taggart, Foustanellas, etc, etc, etc

Wow, I don't know a single name in here, and I've lived here for 20 years! I must be doing something wrong.

 

[topshelf15]

I'm lost.

As far as I know Leeder was let go for two reasons:

- Lebreton. Anselmi was brought in for his experience with these big projects. (Never mind that Leeder is the won that was involved in preparing the winning bid)

- Ticketing Strategy. Leeder always believed that you build through the community. That long-term the best way to build a strong fanbase and capture the next generation of Leaf & Hab fans was to get bodies in seats. This is why the sens ran so many community promotions while he was in charge. This meant 30-40% of the tickets were heavily discounted...but the stadium was full. Melnyk saw the discounting and large sales team needed to operate it as waste. They streamlined the pricing (ie: raised), stopped a lot of the free tickets, and attendance went down but revenue didn't because every ticket was now full value.

So revenue from tickets hasn't really changed, Anselmi is gone, and the team now has other revenue streams (TSN) to supplement the revenue gap from tickets. So you really haven't improved at all from when Leeder was there and with Anselmi gone you have probably gone backwards even by Melnyk's measure.

What you lose with Leeder was the connection to the local business community and this cannot be understated. Ottawa's business community is very small at the top. I remember someone behind the Ottawa Celebrity Sports Dinner told me that 100 families donate like 70-80% of the money local charities receive every year. Attend a Celebrity Sports Dinner, or a Gold Plate Dinner, etc and you can barely walk through the crowd with all the backscratching going on. If you want to be a success in Ottawa, it sure helps to be on the good side of the Greenbergs, Ages, Shindlers, Ramphos, Gianetti, Frangioni, Bassi, Taggart, Foustanellas, etc, etc, etc

How do you think these guys feel about Melnyk proposing to move the team after they have spent decades helping to build up and support the Sens foundation with millions in charitable donations?

Yeah no...

 

[Zorf]

Ok, so Zorf math has 135/6 = 22.5.

So let's say that with interest, Eugene needs to pay $26m per year. I bet it's more, but whatever, it's an easy number.

The avg cost of operating a NHL team for a year (I read this a while ago), is roughly $150m, all in. So let's assume that the Euge has cut as much as possible from that, so all in, he needs $160m per year from sponsors, merchandising and ticket sales to cover costs, including the debt.

He gets $45m off the hop from TV deals, and what, another $20m from advertisements in and around the rink? I have no clue what he makes from TSN1200 for their broadcast rights... Let's say $2m per season? Who cares.

I'm sure that we fans can find a way to hammer away at the remainder. It won't be easy. We need to limit ticket, merchandise, parking and concession sales to less than $2.27m per game.

Not super easy, but we can do it!

 

[JD1]

Ok, so Zorf math has 135/6 = 22.5.

So let's say that with interest, Eugene needs to pay $26m per year. I bet it's more, but whatever, it's an easy number.

The avg cost of operating a NHL team for a year (I read this a while ago), is roughly $150m, all in. So let's assume that the Euge has cut as much as possible from that, so all in, he needs $160m per year from sponsors, merchandising and ticket sales to cover costs, including the debt.

He gets $45m off the hop from TV deals, and what, another $20m from advertisements in and around the rink? I have no clue what he makes from TSN1200 for their broadcast rights... Let's say $2m per season? Who cares.

I'm sure that we fans can find a way to hammer away at the remainder. It won't be easy. We need to limit ticket, merchandise, parking and concession sales to less than $2.27m per game.

Not super easy, but we can do it!

how did you get that interest cost?

 

[Micklebot]

I didn't realize that corporation had a human side to them. Most of the ones I know are pretty ambivalent to the goings on of Leeder/Melnyk. Corporate support is quite good here. Club Bell still has a waiting list. I don't even think most corporation care if they win or not. They just need to park/move money.

I don't think there is any easy way to remove someone like Leeder, but it had to be done. The hot dogs needed to be improved.

So, aside from 500 sold out club bell seats, how exactly are you determining that the Sens Corporate support is quite good? What benchmark are you using for quite good?

I mean, Chris Stevenson reported in 2017 Season tickets as roughly 50% corporate owned, how does that compare to other teams? (he only mentioned Toronto at 80% of a larger STH base, roughly 13000 corporate owned vs 4000 for the Sens)

 

[Micklebot]

how did you get that interest cost?

I'm guessing it was a rough estimates not accounting for compounding,

Year 1: 130 mil @ 2% per year = 2.6 mil in interest costs, so that seems pretty close to his estimate (22.5 +2.6 = 25.1 vs 26)

Not that it really matters, the who thing seemed pretty tongue in cheek

 

[R2010]

Like many big business owners, they give full trust and control to people they hire and pay them huge money to run the company. Many many things were swept under the carpet and never materialized until many years later. So, the owner abruptly has to take things into his own hands and fires the leach. You probably won't understand this as your current employment status only takes in charitable donations and you are not privy to this ugly side of big business. [MOD]

And he's done such a wonderful job of that. Threaten to move the franchise and insult the fan base. Alienate the two most popular figures in the team. Sounds like a great business plan. The only thing that is clear about Melnyk is that he's outside of his depth and is not willing to do the right thing and give up power to those who know what they're doing. Dunning Kruger all the way.

 

[coladin]

Wow, I don't know a single name in here, and I've lived here for 20 years! I must be doing something wrong.

Mostly real estate, builders and property owners. And they are all invested in the Sens. Club Bell boxes. And I can personally tell you none of them care about winning of losing. Just business, having a good time and
Entertaining. They don't even watch the game

 

[coladin]

So, aside from 500 sold out club bell seats, how exactly are you determining that the Sens Corporate support is quite good? What benchmark are you using for quite good?

I mean, Chris Stevenson reported in 2017 Season tickets as roughly 50% corporate owned, how does that compare to other teams? (he only mentioned Toronto at 80% of a larger STH base, roughly 13000 corporate owned vs 4000 for the Sens)

Well, I think you answered it in comparing to Toronto. 1/6th the size and they have an insane amount of boxes to fill. They are Canada's corporate city and while Ottawa can do better, the fan/corporation ratio would definitely be stronger here than other markets. Club Bell is 10K a seat. I know they cannibalized their boxes a bit, but the people sitting in Club Bell or in the clubs or boxes don't buy the tarped seats.

 

[Micklebot]

Well, I think you answered it in comparing to Toronto. 1/6th the size and they have an insane amount of boxes to fill. They are Canada's corporate city and while Ottawa can do better, the fan/corporation ratio would definitely be stronger here than other markets. Club Bell is 10K a seat. I know they cannibalized their boxes a bit, but the people sitting in Club Bell or in the clubs or boxes don't buy the tarped seats.

So basically you're just making crap up? Because unless you actually have comparissons to other teams, you can't really say our corporate support is fine. Other teams also have corporate aimed seats, whether it be boxes or premium seating like club bell, also come at a higher cost to, so again, I ask a simple question, quite good compared to what?

 

[JD1]

So basically you're just making crap up? Because unless you actually have comparissons to other teams, you can't really say our corporate support is fine. Other teams also have corporate aimed seats, whether it be boxes or premium seating like club bell, also come at a higher cost to, so again, I ask a simple question, quite good compared to what?

the only thing you can compare our corporate sales to is the size of our corporate market. The reality is the market is smaller than any other nhl city. the question is how well the team does with corporate sales relative to its market size. I've never seen any data on this.

 

[mysens]

Wow, I don't know a single name in here, and I've lived here for 20 years! I must be doing something wrong.

Yes, my type of crowd! I know them all very personally, these guys are there for a good time. Go for dinner, meet up with everyone, have lots of drinks and have Responsible Choice drive them home. When in their company which is often as they are personal friends, never and I mean rarely will sit down and watch the game. So, answering the question, the only thing they will be bothered about if this team moves is the free pass or green card to go out and drinks and be merry from the wives.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

Yes, my type of crowd! I know them all very personally, these guys are there for a good time. Go for dinner, meet up with everyone, have lots of drinks and have Responsible Choice drive them home. When in their company which is often as they are personal friends, never and I mean rarely will sit down and watch the game. So, answering the question, the only thing they will be bothered about if this team moves is the free pass or green card to go out and drinks and be merry from the wives.

I don't care whether it was intended or not but thanks for the laughs man. Hilarious stuff.

 

[coladin]

So basically you're just making crap up? Because unless you actually have comparissons to other teams, you can't really say our corporate support is fine. Other teams also have corporate aimed seats, whether it be boxes or premium seating like club bell, also come at a higher cost to, so again, I ask a simple question, quite good compared to what?

I guess we all are making crap up unless you have a spreadsheet from the Senators. I personally think for this market , size, it is decent, but I also stated as with the affairs of the club that it can be improved. Going on what was reported from Stevenson in 2017 4000-5000 Seats are corporate. Toronto will be higher but they do not have 6 times more do they? If corporation and fan sales increase Ottawa can be in a better spot. Unless Stevenson is making "crap" up. A great number would be 6000, imo. Another 1000 seats for a puny corporate base would be good. If there were 6000 full season equivalents from fans to make up the rest, that would be good too.

 

[Mingus Dew]

I don't care whether it was intended or not but thanks for the laughs man. Hilarious stuff.

Serious name dropping going on ITT.