News Article: Ottawa Citizen - Marketing and Fan base

[topshelf15]

The marketing will fix itself when there is a product to sell,EM has crushed the two biggest selling points...Hope and/or winning ...

 

[BonkTastic]

These generational fans of the Leafs & Habs are not going to place a Senators Jersey under their Christmas trees, they're going to raise their kids as Habs or Leaf fans....... and they'll help their kids raise their grandchildren as Habs of Leaf fans.

It's only human nature.


If the NHL awarded an expansion team to Toronto, how many generations would it take for the expansion team to cultivate a fan base that would rival the Leafs fanbase?

Ottawa has that challenge times two.


How long did the Toros last in the "center of the hockey universe"?

Or the Nationals?

Of course you gave no context here. Of course. Heaven forbid we ever actually look ay context with your insane posts.

Ok, so:

1) The Ottawa Nationals WERE the Toronto Toros. Same team.

2) the Nationals were originally granted a WHA franchise as the "Ontario" WHA team, and were originally planning to be located in Toronto. After quickly realizing that negotiating rent with Ballard for the Gardens was going to be fruitless, plans changed and the team decided to play in Hamilton. EXTENSIVE advertizing and planning was undertaken to engage Hamilton with this new team, but at the last second arena plans fell through, and against owners best wishes, Ottawa was selected as a last-minute home for the team. The team drew poorly largely due to literally almost no promotion of the team whatsoever due to the sudden decision to place the franchise here. They only lasted a season because the City of Ottawa basically tried to extort a hundred grand from the team for "guaranteeing dates" at the Civic Center (an almost unheard of sum in those days for a league like the WHA), and the owners moved basically out of spite - literally in the middle of the season. All of Ottawa's playoff dates were played in Toronto.

2) with the municipal gov in Ottawa having sewered the team once already, and knowing Hamilton wasn't an option, the Nationals moved to Toronto permanently the next season and became the Toros. The team eventually ended up at the Gardens, controlled by Ballard, who had a FAMOUS hatred of the WHA for stealing his players earlier in it's history. Ballard made the lease at Maple Leaf Gardens as brutal and oppressive as possible in an effort to bankrupt the Toros, who he saw as both competition as well as a source of his vendetta against the league. The team ended up moving to Alabama almost exclusively due to the draconian lease that was forced on them by Ballard, not poor fan engagement. In fact, the Toros were a success for a few years even despite having a landlord that was doing his best to kill them.

So... You still want to use these teams as an example here?

 

[BonkTastic]

Wtf do you want? Does the franchise need to pander to the other side of the river and beg for fans? Give it up. We have a fench speaking gm, a french speaking coach, we have drafted from the q, we've acquired players in part hoping to attract more from the other side of the river.

I'll say it again...it's *****ing for *****ing sake

If Gatineau was going to go all in and embrace the Senators as the community's team it would have happened already

"We hired some Frenchies, what else do they want? To hell with 'em!"

Lol. Remind me to never hire you to market anything, anywhere, ever.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Of course you gave no context here. Of course. Heaven forbid we ever actually look ay context with your insane posts.

The context was the posting I replied to.

[MOD]
It's pretty much obvious you need to commit for generations to cultivate a fanbase in a competitive market. You think the old farts whose family cheered for the habs or leafs for generations would throw that away and buy a Sens jersey the first day of Ottawa's existence?

Heaven forbid you read the quoted post!

 

[BonkTastic]

The context was the posting I replied to.

Yeah, and your Nationals / Toros example lacked the context SURROUNDING THOSE TEAMS needed to be relevant to the discussion at hand.

You... You do know what "context" means, right? I just want to be sure all of this isn't just immediately lost on you, here.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Yeah, and your Nationals / Toros example lacked the context SURROUNDING THOSE TEAMS needed to be relevant to the discussion at hand.

You... You do know what "context" means, right? I just want to be sure all of this isn't just immediately lost on you, here.

The discussion was about how hard it is for Ottawa to transform generational Hab and Leaf fans, in the Ottawa market, into Senator fans.

I pointed out that Leaf and Hab fans are not going to tuck a Senators jersey under the Christmas tree, and raise their children as Senator fans.

No where else in Canada, are there more generational Hab and Leaf fans in ratio to fans of the local NHL team.

The point is, that the WHA did not survive in either Ottawa or Toronto, as there were not enough hockey fans to support the WHA in either city, as there was, and still is an established generational base of Leaf fans.

People who were raised as Leaf fans in the 60s, 70s, 80s, were not going to convert to Senator fans in 1992, and neither were the vast majority of their children since the Senators returned to the NHL.

I'm sorry the point was lost on you.

 

[BonkTastic]

The point is, that the WHA did not survive in either Ottawa or Toronto, as there were not enough hockey fans to support the WHA in either city, as there was, and still is an established generational base of Leaf fans.

Did...

... did you even read my post?

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Did...

... did you even read my post?

I know it was a long post, but come on. This is just pathetic at this point.

I know they're the same franchise. Point is the franchise could not gain any traction in either market.

 

[bert]

Do the Sens actually have a scout located in Quebec, or just a part time guy out east? From the last 5 draft picks from the Q, 4 have been from the East coast, while only one, Gabriel Gagne, was from a team located in the province of Quebec.

Could absolutely be a coincidence, or could it be that we only have people scouting the Q that are based in the East coast.

According to this press release, the Sens hired 3 new scouts in the offseason:
Senators announce three additions to the team's scouting staff

But coincidently, not one of them appear on the team scouting page on the website:
Senators announce three additions to the team's scouting staff

Websites are pretty easy to update nowadays. Another smoke and mirror show? Did they really actually hire new scouts? Did these guys already quit??

They had a Quebec scout, Justin Murray then they fired him over bugetary restraints atleast that was the reasoning for the firing. Also Dorion didnt even do it, despite Justins father hiring him twice including for the sens. These are the same people that stress 'character'. Just feeding B.S to us while doing the exact opposite in how they manage the team.

 

[BatherSeason]

The discussion was about how hard it is for Ottawa to transform generational Hab and Leaf fans, in the Ottawa market, into Senator fans.

I came from a family of generational Leaf fans, as did many current Ottawa Senators fans, we all converted, all of us from Ottawa are also considered to be on the "Ottawa market". What makes it more difficult for people on the Quebec side of the city?? I honestly don't know why this is the debate a few of you have chosen to pick. Its simple, the Ottawa Senators could and should do a better job at attracting a fanbase in the Outaouais and they have neglected to do so throughout Melnyk's time here, there really doesn't need to be an excuse or reasoning, he has failed. Plain and simple.

 

[DaveMatthew]

The discussion was about how hard it is for Ottawa to transform generational Hab and Leaf fans, in the Ottawa market, into Senator fans.

I pointed out that Leaf and Hab fans are not going to tuck a Senators jersey under the Christmas tree, and raise their children as Senator fans.

No where else in Canada, are there more generational Hab and Leaf fans in ratio to fans of the local NHL team.

The point is, that the WHA did not survive in either Ottawa or Toronto, as there were not enough hockey fans to support the WHA in either city, as there was, and still is an established generational base of Leaf fans.

People who were raised as Leaf fans in the 60s, 70s, 80s, were not going to convert to Senator fans in 1992, and neither were the vast majority of their children since the Senators returned to the NHL.

I'm sorry the point was lost on you.

Kids don't necessarily cheer for the team their parents cheer for. Sometimes, sure. But not the "vast majority". That used to be the case, because depending on the city, you could only actually watch one team. Not so much anymore.

Kids cheer for team that has their favorite player. How do they get a favorite player? Well it's usually a star that's on TV a lot, in highlights, or someone who's really good in NHL (or Chel) video games.

Being involved in minor hockey in Ottawa, you know who the majority of young kids I saw, over the last 10 years, had as their "favorite" team? The Penguins. Not the Leafs or Habs.

What did we do with the one superstar we had that kids loved? We traded him.

It's also still too soon to have that fanbase. This team is what, 30 years old? Now is the time when the first generation of Sens fans are having kids and spending their own money, so you'd expect the 2nd generation of fans to grow in the next 10-15 years. We're off to a pretty bad start though.

 

[CTC]

What exactly have they done to grow the support for the Ottawa Senators in Quebec other than remove all of the Gatineau stops on the "Hometown Tour" at the start of the season, which probably had a negative impact?

I know Pat Shipman personally and he is definitely a great guy and a dedicated, hard working dude, but work ethic and desire don't mean anything when you are working for a Dictator .

PS Anyone hear from Nicolas Ruszkowski lately?? Has he crawled in the bunker with PD or has been banished with Mike Condon? For a guy who was so camera hungry early in the season, he sure has disappeared without a trace.

I don't get why people over here especially the younger generation are Montreal fans. I do understand the provincial language cultural identity theme but there were Nordiques fans here before too, there should be room for Ottawa here in Gatineau, especially with the push for bilingualism with our team. The Sens have built a dozen outdoor pads in the region and were in on the redevelopment of the Robert Guertin for a while.
I tried using my McD's meal tickets from the game here in Gatineau and I was told know they are affiliated with Montreal so they could not accept them, I had to ask....What did Montreal ever do for you or your community...nothing, nothing at all except be the token french team in the Nhl.
It just bothers me. Chabot and Pageau's face should be all over the place on this side of the river, and there isn't anything anywhere. I did see a NHL display at the Canadian Tire showing two mannequins wearing an Ott and Mtl set of hockey gear and jerseys...so you know...progress...

 

[JD1]

"We hired some Frenchies, what else do they want? To hell with 'em!"

Lol. Remind me to never hire you to market anything, anywhere, ever.

No worries...i don't work in marketing

 

[pzeeman]

Wtf do you want? Does the franchise need to pander to the other side of the river and beg for fans? Give it up. We have a fench speaking gm, a french speaking coach, we have drafted from the q, we've acquired players in part hoping to attract more from the other side of the river.

I'll say it again...it's *****ing for *****ing sake

If Gatineau was going to go all in and embrace the Senators as the community's team it would have happened already

I know I labelled my thread [POSITIVE], so it was likely ignored, but go look at the thread I started a couple of weeks ago. The Senators held a little event at the CTC *exclusively* for 5 and 6 year old hockey players in the Outaouais hockey association (Aylmer, Hull, Gatineau, Buckingham, Masson-Angers). That's the strongest presence I've ever seen for the Senators in minor hockey over here. That's how you do it. That's how you build fans for life, in spite of parental allegiances. Could even convert some parents.

 

[BonkTastic]

I know they're the same franchise. Point is the franchise could not gain any traction in either market.

You should probably just take the time to read my post before you keep responding to all of this.

I mean, or not. I'll admit that the fact that you clearly didn't bother to read it, and yet insist on continuing down this path, is pretty damned entertaining. I'm ok with how this played out.

 

[JD1]

I know I labelled my thread [POSITIVE], so it was likely ignored, but go look at the thread I started a couple of weeks ago. The Senators held a little event at the CTC *exclusively* for 5 and 6 year old hockey players in the Outaouais hockey association (Aylmer, Hull, Gatineau, Buckingham, Masson-Angers). That's the strongest presence I've ever seen for the Senators in minor hockey over here. That's how you do it. That's how you build fans for life, in spite of parental allegiances. Could even convert some parents.

Yes i saw that post and thought it was a good thing.

 

[BatherSeason]

I know I labelled my thread [POSITIVE], so it was likely ignored, but go look at the thread I started a couple of weeks ago. The Senators held a little event at the CTC *exclusively* for 5 and 6 year old hockey players in the Outaouais hockey association (Aylmer, Hull, Gatineau, Buckingham, Masson-Angers). That's the strongest presence I've ever seen for the Senators in minor hockey over here. That's how you do it. That's how you build fans for life, in spite of parental allegiances. Could even convert some parents.

This is a fantastic step to take. However, more needs to be done. We can't just cater to kids that play hockey, make it bigger, get some players/prospects in the schools all over the NCR, start rebuilding the brand. Its possible, but will just take some work and some money.

 

[JD1]

I don't get why people over here especially the younger generation are Montreal fans. I do understand the provincial language cultural identity theme but there were Nordiques fans here before too, there should be room for Ottawa here in Gatineau, especially with the push for bilingualism with our team. The Sens have built a dozen outdoor pads in the region and were in on the redevelopment of the Robert Guertin for a while.
I tried using my McD's meal tickets from the game here in Gatineau and I was told know they are affiliated with Montreal so they could not accept them, I had to ask....What did Montreal ever do for you or your community...nothing, nothing at all except be the token french team in the Nhl.
It just bothers me. Chabot and Pageau's face should be all over the place on this side of the river, and there isn't anything anywhere. I did see a NHL display at the Canadian Tire showing two mannequins wearing an Ott and Mtl set of hockey gear and jerseys...so you know...progress...

Personally i don't think it really has much to do with hockey...

 

[pzeeman]

This is a fantastic step to take. However, more needs to be done. We can't just cater to kids that play hockey, make it bigger, get some players/prospects in the schools all over the NCR, start rebuilding the brand. Its possible, but will just take some work and some money.

Absolutely agreed. Minor hockey is just such low hanging fruit, I'm shocked it took them this long. And it's an example of what they can do to grow their mindshare beyond hiring a few francophones.

 

[CDN24]

Why do you automatically assume that they've never been courting fans on the Quebec side of the river, until now?

For me this was the first hint

Sens want fewer Maple Leafs, Canadiens fans in Ottawa | CBC News

I am a Habs fan who moved here in 2009 from Montreal. Each year from 2009-10 to 2012-13 I bought tickets to (from box office not resale) and went to anywhere from 3 to 8 games. Then the team tells me they do not want me at the games (whens sens play habs) since I am a Habs fan. They were happy enough to take my my money for the annual Habs game I saw there the last 4 year years. Often times billing me twice what I was paying to watch Tampa or Carolina etc.

I swore then and there that I would never buy another ticket from them and I haven't.

Not only have they not market to Gatineau they have told anyone who is a Habs fan don't come to the games. If they had marketed there from day one they would have probably not converted many Habs fans but they would have converted the 2nd generation. How many kids who were 8 years old in Gatineau in 1998 would have been 29 year old Sens fans with disposable income today?

Team has ignored 20 to 25% of its local market for years.

My son is a 7 year old Sens fan, I may have to cave in and spend some money on the Sens soon. Hopefully its a new owner by then. Maybe I can take him to Sens games at the bell centre instead, Living in the eastern part of the city the commute is not that different after the game.

 

[BondraTime]

Do the Sens actually have a scout located in Quebec, or just a part time guy out east? From the last 5 draft picks from the Q, 4 have been from the East coast, while only one, Gabriel Gagne, was from a team located in the province of Quebec.

Could absolutely be a coincidence, or could it be that we only have people scouting the Q that are based in the East coast.

According to this press release, the Sens hired 3 new scouts in the offseason:
Senators announce three additions to the team's scouting staff

But coincidently, not one of them appear on the team scouting page on the website:
Senators announce three additions to the team's scouting staff

Websites are pretty easy to update nowadays. Another smoke and mirror show? Did they really actually hire new scouts? Did these guys already quit??

Yes, it's coincidence. Yes, they hired new scouts. Christian De Blois is our scout based in Quebec, he's been the head of scouting for Saint John and Shawinigan. He was the reason Saint John drafted Chabot.

Mann spent a lot of time in the Maritimes along with Quebec, he was based in the Q prior to becoming director of amateur scouting.

It no surprise we have 4 guys drafted from Maritimes teams, another Maritimer drafted from the states to go along with Batherson, another's signed for the AHL team, and a couple brought to the rookie camp.