Ottawa/Anaheim 2007 Cup Final

Big Phil

Registered User
Nov 2, 2003
31,703
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I'm still not sure where this comes from, although I suspect it had to do with the Toronto media and a little recency bias.

Over his first 6 playoffs:

1st Phase:
96-97 7 GP 5-2-7
97-98 11 GP 7-2-9
98-99 4 GP 1-2-3
99-00 6 GP 1-3-4
00-01 4 GP 1-0-1
01-02 12 GP 7-6-13

44 GP 22 G 15 A 37 PTS


Considering this was during the height of dead puck hockey, that stat line is very good.

It's worth noting that Alfredsson never had the benefit of Ottawa's #1 C while Hossa was with the team except from his position on the point on the PP.

Now I suspect that your opinion was framed because of these three years and how the 2006 playoffs ended on the Pominville play.

2nd Phase:
02-03 18 GP 4-4-8
03-04 7 GP 1-2-3
05-06 10 GP 2-8-10

35 GP 7 G 14 A 21 PTS


Not great, but not horrifying either.

Then you had his playoff leading results in 2007.

06-07 20 GP 14-8-22 PTS

It is true any Leaf fan saw Alfredsson get used like a rented mule in the playoffs, but that isn't where I draw all of it from. The stat line looks good you believe in the first phase right? 37 points in 44 games. Well, to be fair Joe Thornton's doesn't look awful either. But looking upon closer review you can see a downright awful performance every time the series was on the line.

1997 - 0 points in Game 6 and 7
1998 - 0 points in Game 5 and 6 vs. Washington
1999 - 3 points in a sweep
2000 - 0 points in Games 4, 5 and 6
2001 - 1 point in a sweep
2002 - Did well overall, can't complain too much but 0 points in Game 7 vs. Toronto
2003 - 1 assist (Game 4) in a 7 game series vs. New Jersey, didn't produce much the earlier two rounds either
2004 - 0 points in Game 5, 6, and 7
2006 - Was alright overall in 2006, bad play on the series clincher of course

That's pretty much it in a nutshell. Then in 2007 he steps up and I was impressed and part of it was because I always knew Alfredsson to be someone who didn't show up. Also, played in 5 Game 7s in his career and it took him until 2012 to register a points. He never won a Game 7 in his life.

These were all some very good Senators teams back then too, we all know this. We can blame Yashin, and we do, but it wasn't as if Alfredsson led them either. Or Hossa, or Chara or whichever goalie was in there. Really it wasn't until 2007 that he redeemed himself for playoff failures. These are close series that he was in very often, a goal from Mr. Alfredsson changes a lot.
 

NyQuil

Big F$&*in Q
Jan 5, 2005
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He never won a Game 7 in his life.

These were all some very good Senators teams back then too, we all know this. We can blame Yashin, and we do, but it wasn't as if Alfredsson led them either. Or Hossa, or Chara or whichever goalie was in there. Really it wasn't until 2007 that he redeemed himself for playoff failures. These are close series that he was in very often, a goal from Mr. Alfredsson changes a lot.

Well, Lalime was 0-4 in Game 7 situations.

There's a thread on this very board talking about how Tampa Bay could have accomplished much more with a goalie.

Meanwhile, you had Toronto overperforming thanks to the likes of Cujo and Belfour.

Anyway, 2007 was redemption in the eyes of some, certainly. To others, it wasn't as flagrant.
 

EpochLink

Canucks and Jets fan
Aug 1, 2006
59,514
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Vancouver, BC
The timing was terrible for that decision.

1. Chara had struggled in the 2006 playoffs with the post-lockout crackdown on obstruction. He was also playing with an injured wrist. And yet, people questioned whether he could adapt to the new "speedier" NHL.

2. Chara wanted the max salary over the max term at the time. 5 years at 7.5 million was the most money a player could earn.

3. Redden was willing to take fewer years at a smaller salary (3 years at 6.5 million) and was willing to drop to 6 million if Chara would.

4. Spezza and Heatley contracts were coming up on the horizon and the cap had just been put in place and was a measly 37 or 39 million at the time IIRC.

It was the kind of decision that left a bad feeling in the pit of everyone's stomach. I was never a strong Redden supporter, but he'd played better in those 2006 playoffs when the decision was made.

With hindsight, interviews and discussion has raised the issue of whether Chara ever really wanted to sign with the Senators.

1. He was not happy that his countryman and friend Marian Hossa was dealt for Heatley in a sign-and-trade situation. Marian was in tears and I believe it came out that it soured Zdeno on the organization somewhat.

2. He wanted a hand on the tiller of a team and that just wasn't going to happen with Alfredsson in the picture. He went to Boston to be the Captain.

If their contracts had come up a year earlier, who knows what would have happened?

That really is a shame, the Sens made up for it when they drafted Karlsson in 2008 but it looks like he’s gone in free agency this season. Chara would’ve benefited well in the 2007 Finals against Anaheim’s forwards, really sucks cause the Sens outside of Alfie ran out of gas...Spezza and Heatley were non factors that Finals, Emery gave up timely goals, Ducks checking line gave Ottawa’s top six a heck of a time.

2007 was supposed to cap off the Sens peak but ended in a whimper. Although 2003 I thought they should’ve gone to the finals.
 

NyQuil

Big F$&*in Q
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Ottawa, ON
That really is a shame, the Sens made up for it when they drafted Karlsson in 2008 but it looks like he’s gone in free agency this season. Chara would’ve benefited well in the 2007 Finals against Anaheim’s forwards, really sucks cause the Sens outside of Alfie ran out of gas...Spezza and Heatley were non factors that Finals, Emery gave up timely goals, Ducks checking line gave Ottawa’s top six a heck of a time.

2007 was supposed to cap off the Sens peak but ended in a whimper. Although 2003 I thought they should’ve gone to the finals.

We were a little surprised about 2007 because they started so poorly and were rife with injuries around December-January (17-18-1 by Christmas). Ottawa had injuries to Spezza, Vermette and Fisher so we had Chris Kelly centering the 1st line.

But they turned things around (Heatley was NHL player of the month in January) and went into the playoffs as one of the league's hottest teams and rode that momentum until they ran into the Ducks. Finished up 31-7-8 to cap off the season.

I don't begrudge the Ducks their win - they had a very good team that year and deserved the victory. It's easy to say that the Sens looked gassed but they did have those 9 days off and I think it was the Ducks who tired them out. It would have been interesting to see Chara in that series because Redden struggled (as he did against physical teams).

Most Ottawa fans believe that the 2003 team was the finest incarnation of the team, while the 2006 team was the most entertaining (with Hasek).

In 2007, everyone seemed to be on the same page in the post-season which was sort of reminiscent of last year's surprising run to Game 7 in the ECF. The Pizza Line obviously led the way but in the first round, they weren't quite as dominant and a lot of players stepped up including McAmmond and Comrie.
 

c9777666

Registered User
Aug 31, 2016
19,892
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Do you think the 2007 Pizza Line stepping up in the playoffs was a matchup situation? Because Emery in '06 was shaky at times. Buffalo beat them in '06 with a lesser team, yet lost in '07 without Chara/Hasek.
 

EpochLink

Canucks and Jets fan
Aug 1, 2006
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We were a little surprised about 2007 because they started so poorly and were rife with injuries around December-January (17-18-1 by Christmas). Ottawa had injuries to Spezza, Vermette and Fisher so we had Chris Kelly centering the 1st line.

But they turned things around (Heatley was NHL player of the month in January) and went into the playoffs as one of the league's hottest teams and rode that momentum until they ran into the Ducks. Finished up 31-7-8 to cap off the season.

I don't begrudge the Ducks their win - they had a very good team that year and deserved the victory. It's easy to say that the Sens looked gassed but they did have those 9 days off and I think it was the Ducks who tired them out. It would have been interesting to see Chara in that series because Redden struggled (as he did against physical teams).

Most Ottawa fans believe that the 2003 team was the finest incarnation of the team, while the 2006 team was the most entertaining (with Hasek).

In 2007, everyone seemed to be on the same page in the post-season which was sort of reminiscent of last year's surprising run to Game 7 in the ECF. The Pizza Line obviously led the way but in the first round, they weren't quite as dominant and a lot of players stepped up including McAmmond and Comrie.

If Chara stayed, it would’ve been:

Chara/Redden, Phillip/Volchekov as the top 4.
Meszaros/Schubert/Priessing round off the bottom six whoever you rotate out of there.
 

NyQuil

Big F$&*in Q
Jan 5, 2005
95,348
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Ottawa, ON
If Chara stayed, it would’ve been:

Chara/Redden, Phillip/Volchekov as the top 4.
Meszaros/Schubert/Priessing round off the bottom six whoever you rotate out of there.

It would have been tough to keep Redden I think.

We brought in Preissing (for Havlat) in part because he only cost $600K for that season.
 

Big Phil

Registered User
Nov 2, 2003
31,703
4,144
Well, Lalime was 0-4 in Game 7 situations.

There's a thread on this very board talking about how Tampa Bay could have accomplished much more with a goalie.

Meanwhile, you had Toronto overperforming thanks to the likes of Cujo and Belfour.

Anyway, 2007 was redemption in the eyes of some, certainly. To others, it wasn't as flagrant.

Lalime is one piece of the problem for sure. But if you aren't scoring, you aren't winning either. The Sens of that era had playoff failures from all angles.
 

HisIceness

This is Hurricanes Hockey
Sep 16, 2010
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Charlotte
First two games had the winner scored in the last 5 minutes IIRC. Ottawa kept it close until Phillips mishap in game 5, and it was all over after that.

Not a great series, but not a bad one either, although for as long as I've been watching the Stanley Cup Finals (2001 was the first one I actively followed from start to finish) this one ranks towards the bottom*. Strikes me as a poor mans 2002, dominant team vs first-timer (in Ottawas current form) not expected to be there. The big reason it's a "poor mans" 2002 is that there were no Overtimes in this series.

*In case you're wondering, 2005 is my absolute least favorite Stanley Cup Finals ever :D
 
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HisIceness

This is Hurricanes Hockey
Sep 16, 2010
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Carolina/Edmonton the year before was a similar situation (3-1 series), yet that series had more interest by comparison

Aside from being the first Cup after the lockout, there were several eyeballs from Charlotte, Greensboro, Wilmington, and elsewhere in the Carolinas and possibly parts of Georgia, Tennessee, and Virginia that contributed to this. It wasn't anything that significant, but the team did grab some outside interest in those 7 games.

I'm guessing even with being next door to LA, very few people outside Orange County had a lot of interest in the Ducks.
 

quoipourquoi

Goaltender
Jan 26, 2009
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Strikes me as a poor mans 2002, dominant team vs first-timer (in Ottawas current form) not expected to be there.

I think the plurality of people were calling an Anaheim vs. Buffalo Stanley Cup Final all the way from October through May, but I wouldn't say Ottawa was an unexpected Finalist in the same way I would Carolina in 2002. Linda Cohn, for instance, predicted Ottawa to win the Stanley Cup at the beginning of 2006-07.
 

trentmccleary

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Mar 2, 2002
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We hear how the Ducks dominated this series and their checking line and Pronger/Niedermayer tandem shut down Spezza and Heatley (Alfredsson was the one guy for Ott scoring this series), but it should be noted 3 of the Ducks' wins (games 1-2-4) were by one goal- not exactly 1995/1997 in terms of a lopsided Cup Final scoring wise.

The Ducks dominated the first two games defensively and it was clear at that point that Ottawa wouldn't win because they weren't generating anything offensively.

4. Anaheim played a very physical series which Ottawa tried to match, having been the more physical team against the Pens, Devils and Sabres. But Senators fans were particularly frustrated with the blue line picks that appeared to be pretty standard for Western Conference hockey (preventing forecheckers from hitting the defencemen at the end boards or behind the net with speed).

The blatant obstruction was infuriating after two full seasons of crackdown clutching, grabbing, interference and obstruction. Ottawa offensive forwards blew through opposing defenses and the forecheckers were pounding the opposition every series (Fisher, Neil & Schubert on 3 different lines). Then the finals come around, particularly the first 2 games and "The New NHL" is finished; it's back to no holds barred. I just wish that the Senators were quicker to respond in kind. Officially, the only penalty for obstruction at the blueline came against Preissing in Game 5. As a Sens fan, that was a R-A-G-E inducing moment after Anaheim did exactly that 20 times in the first 2 games. Had I been home, I probably would have fired a 70MPH tv remote into the screen.

Detroit would have fairly easily handled the Sens. As a Ducks fan I can say that Detroit was the only team I was genuinely scared were going to take the series. They put up a hell of a fight and Jiggy stole us that one.

Matchups are difficult to predict.
Ottawa used to lose against Toronto. Toronto lost against Philly. Philly would lose to Ottawa.

I enjoyed it, but Murray should have blown up the team after that series, it was really over for that core at the time, but we didn't want to admit it to ourselves.

The majority of the team was very young at that point. The bigger problem was that Ottawa had the worst goaltending in the league for 3 1/2 seasons from the time Gerber realized he wasn't Hasek until Anderson was acquired.

2nd Phase:
02-03 18 GP 4-4-8

Alfredsson was injured in the 2003 playoffs. Do I remember what it was? Nope. Was it even announced? Might not have been. So why is this likely the case?

Jacques Martin rode Alfie like a horse in the playoffs... normally. But not in 2003. That year has 6 of his 10 lowest playoff ice times and the other low ice times were from his 39-41yo seasons.

Below are Alfredsson's ice times for the 03 playoffs, the other 44 recorded Jacques Martin coach playoff games, Alfredsson's career playoff game ice times and the 2003 regular season. Something happened roughly 3 games into Round 1 and then Alfredsson's ice time crashed for the next 12 games.

Mins/GP03 POJM PODA PO03 RS
22+1153613
20-221102424
19-203102010
18-1956174
17-1823913
16-1720312
15-162042
U152040
Total GP184411778
[TBODY] [/TBODY]




really sucks cause the Sens outside of Alfie ran out of gas...Spezza and Heatley were non factors that Finals, Emery gave up timely goals, Ducks checking line gave Ottawa’s top six a heck of a time.

Emery did the job expected in the playoffs and the Finals (keep the team in games until the offense wakes up). The whole team fell apart in the last game, including Emery and his stats suffered (perhaps making it look worse than he was).

We were a little surprised about 2007 because they started so poorly and were rife with injuries around December-January (17-18-1 by Christmas). Ottawa had injuries to Spezza, Vermette and Fisher so we had Chris Kelly centering the 1st line.

I think that the new defense pairs were a big part of slow first half. The new Phillips-Volchenkov pairing were awful to start. Corvo's start until Christmas was a series of bad decisions (notably stubborn man-to-man defense and shinpad slapshots).

Do you think the 2007 Pizza Line stepping up in the playoffs was a matchup situation? Because Emery in '06 was shaky at times. Buffalo beat them in '06 with a lesser team, yet lost in '07 without Chara/Hasek.

No.
2006 was a more loosey-goosey hockey with so much skill, they just dominated.
Chara came back from a broken hand and had trouble with backhands; that was a problem playing his off-side.
Buffalo diced Emery up laterally and embarrassed him.

The team came together after Christmas in 06-07, when Spezza went down due to injury. They were playing strong defensively, digging for every puck and doing whatever it took to win. They weren't as talented, but they probably got more out of what they had.
Volchenkov was a lot better in 2007, forming a great shutdown tandem with Phillips in Chara's old role.
Emery came into the year with a chip on his shoulder. He'd clearly worked on his lateral movement and made a lot of second effort saves out of sheer determination. The best thing he brought though was strong starts (to games), especially early in the season when the team seemed to take every 1st period off. IMO, without Emery in the first 1/3 of the season... Ottawa doesn't make the playoffs.
 
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Iron Mike Sharpe

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Dec 6, 2017
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I remember thinking at the time that Randy Carlyle completely outcoached Bryan Murray, it seemed Murray was constantly trying to play catch-up & not succeeding. It was clear Anaheim had the better psychological game from game one, & it was pretty clear a couple of games in that Ray Emery had cracked & couldn't handle the job & probably needed to be yanked, at least for one game to shock the team out of their complacency. Murray couldn't make adjustments to the Ducks' game, period: he was completely lost, despite the heroic play of Alfredsson. The Ducks were relentless & didn't miss a step even with Pronger out, which is a big reason why Niedermayer got the Smythe (I thought he completely deserved it, btw).

I remember being absolutely guzzled by Sens fans when I posted that Emery was obviously a headcase who needed to be pulled... but I called it, from that moment on his career spiralled down the drain.
 

TheMoreYouKnow

Registered User
May 3, 2007
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I remember watching that series and thinking "Man the Wings would have killed those Sens". 2007 will always be the Wings Cup that got away for me. More so than 2009 actually because I think the Wings were better in 2007 than 2009.
 

BigKing

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Might have been one goal games, but they didn't seem close as Ottawa's top line was completely shut down. It seemed like Ottawa wasn't going to score and it would only be a matter of time before Anaheim did.

I was at Game 3 (or Game 4, think it was 3) and the play of Spezza, in particular, was pathetic. As a Kings fan, I was pulling for Ottawa and seeing their top line get manhandled in person was really frustrating.

Similar to LA/NYR in 2014, most just had that feeling that LA was going to pull it out no matter what. LA over CHI in 2014 felt like the "real" final, much like ANA over DET in 2007 felt the same.

I hate Andreas Lilja.
 

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