Line Combos: Ottawa 2016-2017 thoughts

[Do Make Say Think]

Legit question...
I'm looking at the top end talent, defense corps, goaltending and depth of the 4 teams in the 3rd round. Is anyone intimidated by these teams? Is the there any reason why Ottawa couldn't get there? I'm only jealous of about 3 players, otherwise I just see them playing infinitely better as a team than the Senators do.

What if the reason they are playing infinitely better is partly because of the roster?

We play with so little grit and toughness, I'm not convinced we can elevate our play to match what I'm seeing out of the playoffs at the moment. And that's not just on the coaching, that is a roster "issue".

 

[Icelevel]

Legit question...
I'm looking at the top end talent, defense corps, goaltending and depth of the 4 teams in the 3rd round. Is anyone intimidated by these teams? Is the there any reason why Ottawa couldn't get there? I'm only jealous of about 3 players, otherwise I just see them playing infinitely better as a team than the Senators do.

my thoughts precisely

 

[Super Cake]

I just hope we re-sign Hoffman

The Sens will need to find a way to replace Hoffmans goal scoring if they trade him.

I am willing to go into next season without any changes just to see how they do with a real coach.

But if they trade Hoffman without getting a adequate replacement, then that will be a big fat mistake.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

I just hope we re-sign Hoffman

The Sens will need to find a way to replace Hoffmans goal scoring if they trade him.

I am willing to go into next season without any changes just to see how they do with a real coach.

But if they trade Hoffman without getting a adequate replacement, then that will be a big fat mistake.

IMO we can't risk trading Hoffman PERIOD.

Im of opinion that we actually need another top 6 on top of Hoffman but letting him go will leave huge gap... unless we get someone better like Hall.

 

[BonkTastic]

IMO we can't risk trading Hoffman PERIOD.

That depends entirely on what the hypothetical return would be.

 

[Sensinitis]

IMO we can't risk trading Hoffman PERIOD.

Im of opinion that we actually need another top 6 on top of Hoffman but letting him go will leave huge gap... unless we get someone better like Hall.

Only way we need another top 6 is if MacArthur fails, or if we trade Ryan.

Hoffman, Stone, Turris, Zibanejad are the locks in the top 6.

MacArthur is a question mark, and Ryan has been lackadaisical.

 

[DJB]

I know not many people share this opinion, but I think that Lazar becomes that dependable 3rd line RW next year.

I still think he's going to eventually be a real good player for us, and gets written off far to quickly sometimes. He has looked lost for sure at times, especially offensively, but he was mishandled by Cameron.

I really only see maybe 3 spots for Lazar next year. 4th line centre or 3rd or 4th line RW.

 

[Sensinitis]

Lazar has publicly manifested his interest in being a center.

Boucher won't have him playing wing.

He'll be our 4th line C, otherwise he's a very good trade piece. But seeing as though Boucher mentioned Lazar in the players he's looking to coach, I think he stays.

It'll be his first season in the NHL playing C all year, so starting off on 4th line is fine. With some PP time, and PK time.

 

[PatrickEaves]

Lazar has publicly manifested his interest in being a center.

Boucher won't have him playing wing.

He'll be our 4th line C, otherwise he's a very good trade piece. But seeing as though Boucher mentioned Lazar in the players he's looking to coach, I think he stays.

It'll be his first season in the NHL playing C all year, so starting off on 4th line is fine. With some PP time, and PK time.

Out of everyone on the team that took more than an average of 1 faceoff a game, Lazar had by far the worse faceoff % at 43.8.

Now you don't have to be great at faceoffs to be a good center in this league (see Bonk's days as an Ottawa Senator), but 44% is actually awful. It's certainly something he'll have to work on if he wants to be a full time center in this league.

 

[Sensinitis]

That's definitely true, hopefully he works on that this summer and in training camp so that it won't be a problem.

 

[TrueGrit]

Lazar has publicly manifested his interest in being a center.

Maybe he can be an associate center?

 

[BonkTastic]

I'd be totally OK with Lazar out-playing Pageau for the 3rd line C spot.
Not because I dislike Pageau or anything, I just want us to be really strong up the middle.


"We have too many good centers".
- no coach, ever.

 

[trentmccleary]

What if the reason they are playing infinitely better is partly because of the roster?

We play with so little grit and toughness, I'm not convinced we can elevate our play to match what I'm seeing out of the playoffs at the moment. And that's not just on the coaching, that is a roster "issue".

Most teams play with a lot less grit in the regular season. We won't know until this team is tested. Actually, there's a lot we don't know about this team right now. We'll have to see it try and fail without catastrophic injuries to see where the weaknesses lie.

But I look at these teams... SJ, TB, St.L who had 2 x 50+ point forwards a piece this year. Pitt had 4. The goaltending aside from Bishop is ok, but not spectacular. The defense corps are also ok, but not spectacular except for maybe the Blues.

 

[Sensinitis]

This team showed that it can win a playoff round. Smith, Karlsson, MacArthur, Zibanejad, Turris, Methot, Anderson, Pageau, etc. were part of that team.

This team showed that it can play under pressure (see last season's playoff run of over 25 games). You can add Stone, Hoffman, Ryan, Ceci as "new" players a part of that cog.

Now we have to see if they can be consistent for a whole season or most of it, and then anything can happen because the Sens do not lack any major pieces.

 

[trentmccleary]

By far the biggest question this team has if whether Boucher and Phaneuf can help get that shots against number down to a more reasonable level.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Most teams play with a lot less grit in the regular season. We won't know until this team is tested. Actually, there's a lot we don't know about this team right now. We'll have to see it try and fail without catastrophic injuries to see where the weaknesses lie.

But I look at these teams... SJ, TB, St.L who had 2 x 50+ point forwards a piece this year. Pitt had 4. The goaltending aside from Bishop is ok, but not spectacular. The defense corps are also ok, but not spectacular except for maybe the Blues.

True.

But we really don't have anyone in the top 6 that has any kind of mean streak and in the top 4 all we have is Phaneuf (Methot hip checks like a boss but that's about it).

I am definitely open to the notion that I'm overstating this though. The Penguins don't have a lot of toughness on their roster but they have Kessel on the third line

 

[BonkTastic]

The Penguins don't have a lot of toughness on their roster but they have Kessel on the third line

Kessel is 2nd among all Penguins forwards in TOI so far in their playoff run this year, behind only Crosby.

He's getting 1st line minutes.

 

[Samsquanch]

What if the reason they are playing infinitely better is partly because of the roster?

We play with so little grit and toughness, I'm not convinced we can elevate our play to match what I'm seeing out of the playoffs at the moment. And that's not just on the coaching, that is a roster "issue".

Pittsburgh, San Jose, and Tampa Bay are not exactly what I would call gritty/tough teams. They are better teams than Ottawa, faster and more skilled for sure, but to call them grittier or tougher is not correct imo.

Grit and toughness are overrated imo. There's multiple ways to win a cup, and that's just one of them. The Sens are big enough, and rarely get pushed around (we lose games other ways), so I don't see this as the teams glaring weakness moving forward.

Really, the only soft players on this team are Hoffman, Turris, Wideman and Weircoich, who doesn't look like he'll be back anyways. Everyone else is either big enough and/or gritty enough to handle the physical side of the game.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Kessel is 2nd among all Penguins forwards in TOI so far in their playoff run this year, behind only Crosby.

He's getting 1st line minutes.

Absolutely.

But in terms of matchups he's on the third line, or if not him one of Crosby or Malkin are.

Pittsburgh, San Jose, and Tampa Bay are not exactly what I would call gritty/tough teams. They are better teams than Ottawa, faster and more skilled for sure, but to call them grittier or tougher is not correct imo.

Grit and toughness are overrated imo. There's multiple ways to win a cup, and that's just one of them. The Sens are big enough, and rarely get pushed around (we lose games other ways), so I don't see this as the teams glaring weakness moving forward.

Really, the only soft players on this team are Hoffman, Turris, Wideman and Weircoich, who doesn't look like he'll be back anyways. Everyone else is either big enough and/or gritty enough to handle the physical side of the game.

Certainly possible.

But watching the playoffs makes me skeptical about this team's ability to elevate their play to match what I'm seeing however.

That's why we have a new coach though, the sky's the limit!

 

[Sensinitis]

Hoffman-Zibanejad-Stone
MacArthur-Turris-Ryan
Smith-Pageau-Hudler
Paul-Lazar-McCormick/Dzingel

Methot-Karlsson
Phaneuf-Ceci
Vet D-Wideman

Anderson

If that team has a good PP, PK (top 15 minimum for both or better), and limits its SA and thus GA, I think it competes with any team in the conference finals currently.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Conceivable but until we see how the team performs under the new coach I remain skeptical.

However, the reason I'm skeptical is because of weak we have been these last three seasons. That won't matter if we make the playoffs next year.

 

[Samsquanch]

Absolutely.

But in terms of matchups he's on the third line, or if not him one of Crosby or Malkin are.



Certainly possible.

But watching the playoffs makes me skeptical about this team's ability to elevate their play to match what I'm seeing however.

That's why we have a new coach though, the sky's the limit!

We saw them play at a very high level and with some serious desperation in the last 20 games of the 2014-2015. Some of those games (not all of them) were very intense.

I agree though that we need to see them do it in the playoffs.

I do believe that this a already a top 10-15 team in the league if someone can get everyone on the same page, and firing on all cylinders (for once). Hopefully Boucher is that Guy, literally.

We'll be that much better if Lazar, White and Chabot turn into impact guys. Maybe even contenders if Perron, Paul, Englund, Jaros, ect can turn into legit NHLers.

Having said all that, if we miss the playoffs in either of the next two years with a healthy team, I'd be in favour of blowing up the roster and rebuilding. Karlsson included if the trade made sense .

He would fetch an incredible haul at this point in his career, and would put us ahead years in the rebuild.

 

[Langdon Alger]

Hoffman-Zibanejad-Stone
MacArthur-Turris-Ryan
Smith-Pageau-Hudler
Paul-Lazar-McCormick/Dzingel

Methot-Karlsson
Phaneuf-Ceci
Vet D-Wideman

Anderson

If that team has a good PP, PK (top 15 minimum for both or better), and limits its SA and thus GA, I think it competes with any team in the conference finals currently.

I like adding Hudler, but I would probably try him with Hoff and Zibby, that way we can keep the Smith, Pageau, Stone line together. I'm not sure how much it matters, but I like that Hudler is a left shot. We have a lot of right shots up front right now.

 

[Hutz]

Having said all that, if we miss the playoffs in either of the next two years with a healthy team, I'd be in favour of blowing up the roster and rebuilding. Karlsson included if the trade made sense .

He would fetch an incredible haul at this point in his career, and would put us ahead years in the rebuild.

I hate to think it, but if we missed both the next 2 seasons, I might just be on board with that. Would make for a few really painful years, but I also don't want to be a middling/underachieving team forever.

If it's just one of the two as you said, I'd need a bit more convincing. Would depend on several other factors then, perhaps most importantly the playoff performance in that one year.

 

[Langdon Alger]

I hate to think it, but if we missed both the next 2 seasons, I might just be on board with that. Would make for a few really painful years, but I also don't want to be a middling/underachieving team forever.

If it's just one of the two as you said, I'd need a bit more convincing. Would depend on several other factors then, perhaps most importantly the playoff performance in that one year.

Would we be looking for another new coach if we miss the playoffs the next two years?