Confirmed Trade: [OTT/TBL] Sens trade Mike Condon & 2020 6th Rounder to Tampa for Ryan Callahan & 2020 5th

[Korpse]

signing callahan sure is

Well they didn’t sign him. There are many reasons to suggest winning isn’t a priority. You really won’t find anyone to argue that point with but to point out in a trade where they move out a goaltender who doesn’t have a spot on the roster is pointless and irrelevant to the trade.

 

[Richard88]

Brisebois said he expects to run Wedgewood and Condon in Syracuse. We will be moving Domingue. We should be able to recoup our 5th at bare minimum for Domingue.

Some Colorado fans were saying that they were looking for a third string goalie. Domingue for 1 year at 1.15 shouldn't be hard to move.

That's correct. Avs are (or at least should be) looking for a veteran No.3/AHL starter.

However, that assumes that neither of their recent AHL/ECHL level goalie signings Hunter Miska or Mason McDonald are guys they plan to have starting in the AHL. Adam Werner is coming over from Sweden and should only be the AHL backup this season.

 

[Korpse]

If Ottawa didn't have budget restrictions, they just would of buried Condon and paid his 3 million dollar contract (like what Tampa will do). They would of then taken on Callahan's contract since they have plenty of cap space and would of gotten a better pick in return. Instead they traded Condon and his 3 million dollar salary and took on a player who's salary is covered by insurance. For that the exchanged a 6th for a 5th and moved up a couple spots in the draft, instead of just getting something like a 4th round pick (like what Toronto got for Clarkson) if they just out right took on Callahan's contract.

Even without budget restrictions I don’t see burying condon as an option. You have Hogberg, Gustavsson and Daccord all vying for quality playing time in the minors. Where does condon fit? A decision was made to move on from Condon probably around the time Nilsson was brought in and it wasn’t financially motivated unlike many other decisions.

 

[CreeksideStrangler]

Well they didn’t sign him. There are many reasons to suggest winning isn’t a priority. You really won’t find anyone to argue that point with but to point out in a trade where they move out a goaltender who doesn’t have a spot on the roster is pointless and irrelevant to the trade.

sorry trading for callahan. not sure they will ever be ready to compete with this ownership

 

[Korpse]

sorry trading for callahan. not sure they will ever be ready to compete with this ownership

That’s a very really possibility.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

That's correct. Avs are (or at least should be) looking for a veteran No.3/AHL starter.

However, that assumes that neither of their recent AHL/ECHL level goalie signings Hunter Miska or Mason McDonald are guys they plan to have starting in the AHL. Adam Werner is coming over from Sweden and should only be the AHL backup this season.

Yup that's totally reasonable on Colorado's part. I expect us to go to the start of the season with all the backups, and someone will have a goalie go down or not perform and coming knocking to Tampa Bay's backup goalie emporium. Where the deals are cheap and the sales are crazy!

 

[PromisedLand]

Must be some other moves in place. Real question is does Ottawa save $$$?

in terms of real dollars OTT is paying +1.7M extra (OUT -> CONDON: 3M); IN -> Callahan: 4.7M)

however, if OTT has insurance coverage for injured players then technically they are saving dollars and also gain +1.7M in cap hit to reach the ceiling

 

[CreeksideStrangler]

That’s a very really possibility.

so I repeat

"budget team icing another bottom feeder, not even trying to win anymore."

you just argue for the sake of it?

 

[Korpse]

so I repeat

"budget team icing another bottom feeder, not even trying to win anymore."

you just argue for the sake of it?

I just find it odd in this case when the team decided to bring back Nilsson and move out Condon. You have a point in the grand scheme of things but I don't see how this move justifies it at all. If anything it would be a marginal move geared towards putting the team in a better position. It's just really odd that this is a thread you decide to make that point. It's almost as if regardless of what transpires people are going to pile on, whether it's relevant to the discussion or not.

 

[Hostile Offer]

in terms of real dollars OTT is paying +1.7M extra (OUT -> CONDON: 3M); IN -> Callahan: 4.7M)

however, if OTT has insurance coverage for injured players then technically they are saving dollars and also gain +1.7M in cap hit to reach the ceiling

Pretty sure Callahan is insured. There's no way they do this trade if he weren't, they were already above the floor.

In real money, assuming insurance pays 80% of Callahan's salary:
Sens pay Callahan $94k, send Condon's $3M away
-> $2.906M savings in total

In cap hit:
Sens take Callahan's cap hit $5.8M, send Condon's (assuming buried) $1.325M away
-> $4.475M cap hit increase

Tampa buries Condon, sends Callahan's $5.8M cap hit away so they save $4.475M on their offseason cap to be able to sign Point. It's all very sensible from both sides in that regard, the actual surprise here is the Sens are actually upgrading a draft pick (albeit minimally) and not trade it away just because this moves saves them real money.

 

[KPower]

Melnyk ruining the league one trade at a time.

These deals are taking money out of the players pockets.

 

[Qward]

Pretty sure Callahan is insured. There's no way they do this trade if he weren't, they were already above the floor.

In real money, assuming insurance pays 80% of Callahan's salary:
Sens pay Callahan $94k, send Condon's $3M away
-> $2.906M savings in total

In cap hit:
Sens take Callahan's cap hit $5.8M, send Condon's (assuming buried) $1.325M away
-> $4.475M cap hit increase

Tampa buries Condon, sends Callahan's $5.8M cap hit away so they save $4.475M on their offseason cap to be able to sign Point. It's all very sensible from both sides in that regard, the actual surprise here is the Sens are actually upgrading a draft pick (albeit minimally) and not trade it away just because this moves saves them real money.

Sens are paying Callahan $940,000, not $94,000.
Insurance only covers 80%.

For Tampa, $5.8 cap hit out, $2.4 cap hit in. Burying Condon saves Tampa $1,075,000 ($700K which is league minimum + 375K) meaning Condon still counts as $1,325,000 towards the cap.

This transaction saved Tampa $4,475,000 in cap space and saved Ottawa $2,060,000 in real dollars.

 

[Hostile Offer]

Sens are paying Callahan $940,000, not $94,000.
Insurance only covers 80%.

For Tampa, $5.8 cap hit out, $2.4 cap hit in. Burying Condon saves Tampa $1,075,000 ($700K which is league minimum + 375K) meaning Condon still counts as $1,325,000 towards the cap.

This transaction saved Tampa $4,475,000 in cap space and saved Ottawa $2,060,000 in real dollars.

Whoops, you're right, I got all messed up with the zeros on that insurance thing. Otherwise we're on the same page.

 

[Sensmileletsgo]

Even without budget restrictions I don’t see burying condon as an option. You have Hogberg, Gustavsson and Daccord all vying for quality playing time in the minors. Where does condon fit? A decision was made to move on from Condon probably around the time Nilsson was brought in and it wasn’t financially motivated unlike many other decisions.

Couldnt he be bought out?

 

[Langdon Alger]

Couldnt he be bought out?

He could have been, but that would have cost Ottawa 2 million dollars over the next two years, and Melnyk likely didn’t want to do that.

 

[Qward]

Couldnt he be bought out?

They missed the first buy out window. The second one was only available to those who have 2 or more arbitration. Ottawa does not have 2.

 

[topshelf15]

EM up to his old tricks again,he doesnt have the money to run a nhl team,,,Let alone a AHL one....But he wants max dollars in any sale ...So this will continue until his demands are met,or he completely runs out of revenue and is forced to sell....

Been a fan of the team since inception,and it has been this way from day 1....We have had two failed businessmen as owners that have raped the team for it finances to support themselves....As a fan I can only hope whenever the team is finally sold we actually get a real nhl owner for once

 

[rt]

Ottawa is only getting this approach half right. Before Arizona had an owner, Chayka used cap space to take on dead weight contracts that carried no cash consideration. Guys like Datsyuk, Bolland, and Hossa that weren’t actually being paid anything. Arizona was already above the cap floor when Chayka did this, which is one difference. The key issue, is that Chayka always attempted to get value when he agreed to bail teams out. Ottawa seems only to be trading real money for fake money. They’re forgetting to pick up assets along the way.

The Datsyuk deal allowed Arizona to draft Chychrun. The Bolland deal gave the Coyotes Crouse. Chayka got Hinostroza and Oesterle for taking Hossa. Each of Chychrun, Crouse, Hinostroza, and Oesterle immediately joined the Coyotes and helped the team improve. All are meaningful (albeit secondary, in most cases) young roster players.

Ottawa doesn’t seem to be getting any pieces like these. These deals don’t seem to be designed to help them actually get better. Why aren’t they capable of extracting any value from these trades to go along with the financial considerations? Arizona was able to do both. Carolina got an asset for Marleau. Other teams seem to know how to do this properly. Why not Ottawa?

What am I missing?

 

[CanadianHockey]

Ottawa is only getting this approach half right. Before Arizona had an owner, Chayka used cap space to take on dead weight contracts that carried no cash consideration. Guys like Datsyuk, Bolland, and Hossa that weren’t actually being paid anything. Arizona was already above the cap floor when Chayka did this, which is one difference. The key issue, is that Chayka always attempted to get value when he agreed to bail teams out. Ottawa seems only to be trading real money for fake money. They’re forgetting to pick up assets along the way.

The Datsyuk deal allowed Arizona to draft Chychrun. The Bolland deal gave the Coyotes Crouse. Chayka got Hinostroza and Oesterle for taking Hossa. Each of Chychrun, Crouse, Hinostroza, and Oesterle immediately joined the Coyotes and helped the team improve. All are meaningful (albeit secondary, in most cases) young roster players.

Ottawa doesn’t seem to be getting any pieces like these. These deals don’t seem to be designed to help them actually get better. Why aren’t they capable of extracting any value from these trades to go along with the financial considerations? Arizona was able to do both. Carolina got an asset for Marleau. Other teams seem to know how to do this properly. Why not Ottawa?

What am I missing?

Because financial considerations are significant value added from Ottawa's perspective.
Instead of asking other teams to add picks or prospects, Ottawa is asking other teams to take on salary.

It's not like Chayka always got exceptional value, anyway. That Datsyuk trade allowed Arizona to draft four spots higher, but cost them a 2nd round pick as well.

 

[rt]

Because financial considerations are significant value added from Ottawa's perspective.
Instead of asking other teams to add picks or prospects, Ottawa is asking other teams to take on salary.

It's not like Chayka always got exceptional value, anyway. That Datsyuk trade allowed Arizona to draft four spots higher, but cost them a 2nd round pick as well.

They had Chychrun in their top seven and had started attempting to trade up for him much, much earlier. There was debate at the table during the Keller pick as to whether Chychrun should be the guy there. They had them rated back to back.

 

[DFC]

Ottawa is only getting this approach half right. Before Arizona had an owner, Chayka used cap space to take on dead weight contracts that carried no cash consideration. Guys like Datsyuk, Bolland, and Hossa that weren’t actually being paid anything. Arizona was already above the cap floor when Chayka did this, which is one difference. The key issue, is that Chayka always attempted to get value when he agreed to bail teams out. Ottawa seems only to be trading real money for fake money. They’re forgetting to pick up assets along the way.

The Datsyuk deal allowed Arizona to draft Chychrun. The Bolland deal gave the Coyotes Crouse. Chayka got Hinostroza and Oesterle for taking Hossa. Each of Chychrun, Crouse, Hinostroza, and Oesterle immediately joined the Coyotes and helped the team improve. All are meaningful (albeit secondary, in most cases) young roster players.

Ottawa doesn’t seem to be getting any pieces like these. These deals don’t seem to be designed to help them actually get better. Why aren’t they capable of extracting any value from these trades to go along with the financial considerations? Arizona was able to do both. Carolina got an asset for Marleau. Other teams seem to know how to do this properly. Why not Ottawa?

What am I missing?

I think this is true. Ottawa, in a way, is selling assets for cash--but it's assets the other team gets to keep. In this case, it would have likely cost TB about a 4th to unload Callahan. Instead, they kept their 4th, essentially "buying it," for the 2-point-whatever million they'll have to pay Condon instead.

Ottawa's pretending mid-rounders don't matter in a rebuild. I think some people are even buying it.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

in terms of real dollars OTT is paying +1.7M extra (OUT -> CONDON: 3M); IN -> Callahan: 4.7M)

however, if OTT has insurance coverage for injured players then technically they are saving dollars and also gain +1.7M in cap hit to reach the ceiling

Reach the ceiling, save Melnyk some real dollars.

Its the most Senators trade ever.

 

[ottawa]

Yeah, this train of thinking needs to end ....The support from the fanbase has more than been there,god forbid your team has to deal with crappy ownership that only takes from the team rather than puts money into it....And then have some troll comment like this to deal with,you really should think before you post

Are we talking about the same fanbase that couldn't muster up enough fans to show up for 2 playoff games?

And don't give me that boycotting bullshit, you either bail on all the games or none of them.

 

[Danythegod]

Are we talking about the same fanbase that couldn't muster up enough fans to show up for 2 playoff games?

And don't give me that boycotting bull****, you either bail on all the games or none of them.



Nope, dead serious. Ownership is an issue, but so is Ottawa not being a hockey market...it's just a bad combination all around. Then you have a city like Quebec city or Houston just dying to have a team since they're able to support one.

No

 

[Karl Eriksson]

Melnyk ruining the league one trade at a time.

These deals are taking money out of the players pockets.

Neither of these statements are true. Melnyk is cheap though and isn’t trying to compete.