Confirmed Trade: [OTT/ARI] Derek Stepan for 2021 2nd round pick

[Big Muddy]

A first line center who is only capable of ~30 points. Yes this is the type of player that we trade early-mid 2nd round picks for in the hope we can turn it into a 3rd from a cup contending team. Coulda easily signed Erik Haula, Craig Smith, Cody Eakin, Vlad Namesnikov, Mikku Koivu along with a boat load of other players who could provide that same type of "leadership".

Ya, here is a list of UFA centers that were available. No shortage really.

2020 NHL Free Agents Tracker

As for contracts, Haula signed for $1.75m x 1 year, Soderberg $1 m x 1 year, etc.

The deal with TBL was a good return for the Senators, but the Stepan deal seems like overpayment. The rumor that the Sens were considering Stepan popped up several weeks ago, so not sure if they got locked on to this target and considered the alternatives (e.g. cheaper & better free agents) or not. Hopefully they were very diligent in examining and talking to the alternatives.

Senators were one of most active teams in the market this year, but a lot of their acquisitions were for bottom of the roster players.

 

[SpezDispenser]

Senators were one of most active teams in the market this year, but a lot of their acquisitions were for bottom of the roster players.

Not necessarily for Ottawa though. Certainly not Dadinov or Stepan. Both will see top 6 minutes, I assume. Galchenyuk might as well. Watson and Paquette are for sure, but remember which team you're talking about here.

The hope is that we sell a lot of the vets off by the deadline and assimilate the youth into the roles we hope they'll thrive in after they've either been on the taxi squad, or in the AHL or going back and forth.

 

[Altimus]

Not necessarily for Ottawa though. Certainly not Dadinov or Stepan. Both will see top 6 minutes, I assume. Galchenyuk might as well. Watson and Paquette are for sure, but remember which team you're talking about here.

The hope is that we sell a lot of the vets off by the deadline and assimilate the youth into the roles we hope they'll thrive in after they've either been on the taxi squad, or in the AHL or going back and forth.

this is pretty much every Sens fans idea of the team landscape. we should net 4 more draft picks at the deadline if we are well out of the playoffs. We could still get a miracle hamburgler run again.

 

[Guttersniped]

Ya, here is a list of UFA centers that were available. No shortage really.

2020 NHL Free Agents Tracker

As for contracts, Haula signed for $1.75m x 1 year, Soderberg $1 m x 1 year, etc.

The deal with TBL was a good return for the Senators, but the Stepan deal seems like overpayment. The rumor that the Sens were considering Stepan popped up several weeks ago, so not sure if they got locked on to this target and considered the alternatives (e.g. cheaper & better free agents) or not. Hopefully they were very diligent in examining and talking to the alternatives.

Senators were one of most active teams in the market this year, but a lot of their acquisitions were for bottom of the roster players.

Those centers were signed before the trade actually happened so Dorian could have attempted and failed to get a UFA center. Also, there are other factors involved. Haula is rumored to be an infamous malcontent/locker room cancer so if Sens are looking for a vet to mentor their younger players in a positive way then Haula probably isn’t their guy.

It’s simple. The reason the Coyotes wanted a 2nd is for Stepan is because he has value as TDL fodder. As a center he does have value, if Derrick Brassard can get a 3rd back in 2019 then Stepan can get Ottawa at least that.

Maybe it is overpayment, but goddamn, it’s just Columbus’ 2021 2nd. It’s not the end of world.

 

[Karl Eriksson]

A lot of people here can’t separate the cap hit from the player. Stepan is a top 6 talent on a team like the sens, and his cap hit is totally irrelevant to Ottawa. On top of that they can make most of the cost back at the deadline.

Yes it takes a spot from a young guy, but it looks to me like Dorion wants to give NHL ice time to vets and established youth and let the big crop of emerging talent mature another year in Belleville. In a crazy pandemic year with all the disruptions to playing time and training that’s probably a wise idea.

People need to get used to the idea of the sens throwing around cap space like drunken sailors. We are the only ones who can. With $11M left in cap space I expect plenty more of it leading into the expansion draft.

 

[Big Muddy]

Not necessarily for Ottawa though. Certainly not Dadinov or Stepan. Both will see top 6 minutes, I assume. Galchenyuk might as well. Watson and Paquette are for sure, but remember which team you're talking about here.

The hope is that we sell a lot of the vets off by the deadline and assimilate the youth into the roles we hope they'll thrive in after they've either been on the taxi squad, or in the AHL or going back and forth.

I'm not sure what point you are making.

A team can sell off better players as easily or more easily than lesser players. There isn't unique benefits to acquiring lesser players versus better players. They can both be sold at the TDL for assets, can provide veteran leadership, etc.

Yes, Stepan & Galchenyuk will play higher up in the Senators lineup versus where they would in a better team. Doesn't seem relevant to the point I was making.

And, no I'm not confused by the difference between AAV and the real dollars paid out to a player on a given year. That's a pretty simple concept.

 

[SpezDispenser]

I'm not sure what point you are making.

A team can sell off better players as easily or more easily than lesser players. There isn't unique benefits to acquiring lesser players versus better players. They can both be sold at the TDL for assets, can provide veteran leadership, etc.

Yes, Stepan & Galchenyuk will play higher up in the Senators lineup versus where they would in a better team. Doesn't seem relevant to the point I was making.

And, no I'm not confused by the difference between AAV and the real dollars paid out to a player on a given year. That's a pretty simple concept.

I misunderstood something along the way then. The last line was "Senators were one of most active teams in the market this year, but a lot of their acquisitions were for bottom of the roster players." and I just said that for Ottawa those aren't bottom of the roster players, whereas...on other teams they might be.

 

[Big Muddy]

Those centers were signed before the trade actually happened so Dorian could have attempted and failed to get a UFA center. Also, there are other factors involved. Haula is rumored to be an infamous malcontent/locker room cancer so if Sens are looking for a vet to mentor their younger players in a positive way then Haula probably isn’t their guy.

It’s simple. The reason the Coyotes wanted a 2nd is for Stepan is because he has value as TDL fodder. As a center he does have value, if Derrick Brassard can get a 3rd back in 2019 then Stepan can get Ottawa at least that.

Maybe it is overpayment, but goddamn, it’s just Columbus’ 2021 2nd. It’s not the end of world.

All GMs including Dorion have had since last seasons playoffs ended to make deals. And by perusing the actual dates of the transactions they did, it looks like Dorion was active throughout the entire offseason (early, mid & late off season).

And, I've listed a number of free agents that did sign with Ottawa recently (Dadonov, Galchenyuk, Peca, Shaw, Zub, Hainsey & Ennis), so actual history indicates that this is possible/achievable for them. I think a lot depends on the offer. It might be a little harder for Ottawa, but they have been able to do it in the past.

And, like I've said many times before, moving a better player at the deadline is just as easy or easier than a lesser player.

No idea what the return for Stepan will be. Hopefully, it will be good, but time will tell. I expected Demelo, a decent defenseman to get much than a 4th at the deadline, so who knows.

Throwing away 2nd round picks seems suddenly de rigueur these days, but it seems like a fair number of good NHL defensemen came from this part of the draft. And 2nds are good capital for moving up in the draft, adding value to trades, etc.

 

[Big Muddy]

I misunderstood something along the way then. The last line was "Senators were one of most active teams in the market this year, but a lot of their acquisitions were for bottom of the roster players." and I just said that for Ottawa those aren't bottom of the roster players, whereas...on other teams they might be.

Yes, I agree with that (last part of the last sentence).

For clarification (sense people are jumping to conclusions), I would give Ottawa about a C in terms of overall offseason results. There were some good moves such as:

1. The top three draft picks. I don't go deeper than the 1st round typically because I don't watch enough junior hockey to make claims and predictions.
2. Acquiring a goalie. That was necessary obviously.
3. Dadonov
4. The TBL trade that resulted in landing Paquette, Coburn, & a 2nd.

But, imho, a lot of other moves seemed more aimed at the bottom part of the roster. I'm not in Dorion's head, so there's no way I can say this was done by design, or any other factor.

Given the current financial climate & difficulties, a flat cap for probably 3 years, I would see this as a very large and unusual opportunity for teams with cap space to capitalize on the market conditions. That's the area of concern I have that pulls the ranking down to a C. Its my opinion, others are welcome to their own opinions of course.

 

[Leafs87]

That is some asset management. Stepan was brought in for a top 10 pick and traded for a 2nd round pick. Lucky for them Lias busted to save some face. NYR was targeting Pettersson however, so imagine if that happened....

 

[rt]

That is some asset management. Stepan was brought in for a top 10 pick and traded for a 2nd round pick. Lucky for them Lias busted to save some face. NYR was targeting Pettersson however, so imagine if that happened....

John Chayka was the moron who acquired Stepan. Bill Armstrong is the one who was smart enough to dump him, pick up a 2nd (desperately needed because the other idiot GM lost all of our picks), and sign a replacement player (Brassard) at a fraction of the cost (I expect).

So yeah, the current GM of the Coyotes did manage the asset very well, in fact. If you want to shit-talk Chayka, please start a thread. I’ll post in it 10 times a day.

 

[mouser]

Yes, I agree with that (last part of the last sentence).

For clarification (sense people are jumping to conclusions), I would give Ottawa about a C in terms of overall offseason results. There were some good moves such as:

1. The top three draft picks. I don't go deeper than the 1st round typically because I don't watch enough junior hockey to make claims and predictions.
2. Acquiring a goalie. That was necessary obviously.
3. Dadonov
4. The TBL trade that resulted in landing Paquette, Coburn, & a 2nd.

But, imho, a lot of other moves seemed more aimed at the bottom part of the roster. I'm not in Dorion's head, so there's no way I can say this was done by design, or any other factor.

Given the current financial climate & difficulties, a flat cap for probably 3 years, I would see this as a very large and unusual opportunity for teams with cap space to capitalize on the market conditions. That's the area of concern I have that pulls the ranking down to a C. Its my opinion, others are welcome to their own opinions of course.

Ottawa, Detroit, Los Angeles, New Jersey and some other teams still have a lot of cap space they can burn should they choose to.

Maybe the worthwhile offers to use that cap space for dumps aren't out there?

 

[HoweHullOrr]

A lot of people here can’t separate the cap hit from the player. Stepan is a top 6 talent on a team like the sens, and his cap hit is totally irrelevant to Ottawa. On top of that they can make most of the cost back at the deadline.

Yes it takes a spot from a young guy, but it looks to me like Dorion wants to give NHL ice time to vets and established youth and let the big crop of emerging talent mature another year in Belleville. In a crazy pandemic year with all the disruptions to playing time and training that’s probably a wise idea.

People need to get used to the idea of the sens throwing around cap space like drunken sailors. We are the only ones who can. With $11M left in cap space I expect plenty more of it leading into the expansion draft.

Ya, the Senators were active this year and last year as well, even in the free agent market. And, I don't see why a rebuilding team in general wouldn't be taking a hard look at free agency as well. That would be especially true this year as there were options available at all positions and a great climate to get deals as evidenced by the large number of low $, one year contracts. Looks like the players figured it (the lack of options) out ultimately as well as a lot of them signed one-year contracts.

As there are Senator fans in here, can they identify what the defense pairings will be likely be this year. Even a guess would be fine. There seems to be lots of options for bottom pairing, so I'm most curious about the top two pairings. Many thanks.

 

[pld459666]

I believe that Stepan is going to get back to his 45 point pace AND return that 2nd round pick back to Ottawa when traded at the deadline.

Defensive centers with his playoff experience are gold at trade deadlines.

 

[Stephen]

I'm not high on Derek Stepan at all. He was once a great center option for a contender, but all that playoff wear and tear with the Rangers, just hit 30, and paying a second round pick? Not going to break the rebuild but doesn't feel like good value. Probably could have gotten similar value bringing Derick Brassard back for free.

 

[Boud]

I'm not high on Derek Stepan at all. He was once a great center option for a contender, but all that playoff wear and tear with the Rangers, just hit 30, and paying a second round pick? Not going to break the rebuild but doesn't feel like good value. Probably could have gotten similar value bringing Derick Brassard back for free.

I agree with you here. I think they could've tried something else. At the same time I feel like the team felt comfortable making that trade knowing it didn't really cost them anything.

Essentially Ottawa was paying 20% of Gaboriks contract since it was insured, and I'm not entirely sure if Nilsson was covered as most teams only have their highest paid players covered by the insurance policy. By shipping out both these guys, Sens added Stepan at no actual cost and at the same time it ensured that they were over the cap and still had a bit of wiggle room to trade guys at the deadline by grabbing Stepan with his cap hit.

Then they basically traded off a 2021 2nd for a 2022 2nd and added Paquette who I'm guessing they like.

If you look at the two trades separately, it's a tough look but one doesnt happen without the other IMO.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

I'm not high on Derek Stepan at all. He was once a great center option for a contender, but all that playoff wear and tear with the Rangers, just hit 30, and paying a second round pick? Not going to break the rebuild but doesn't feel like good value. Probably could have gotten similar value bringing Derick Brassard back for free.

A few things about Stepan that cannot be said for most of the other available C's is that:
A) He is comfortable being deployed in difficult minutes and plays a responsible, straight-forward game
B) He is capable on both special teams
C) He had no real choice as to where he was gonna play this upcoming season

Demand for players is higher than ever, and UFAs dont tend to flock to Ottawa. I dont love the trade, as I would have thought we could have gotten Stepan for less, but I still think we can flip him for something nice at the deadline - he will get a chance to step up offensively, and everyone already knows he can handle himself defensively. If he has a good season offensively, I suspect he will be sought after as a Stastney-lite type rental.

 

[NyQuil]

As there are Senator fans in here, can they identify what the defense pairings will be likely be this year. Even a guess would be fine. There seems to be lots of options for bottom pairing, so I'm most curious about the top two pairings. Many thanks.

Chabot - Plug
Wolanin - Plug
Plug - Plug
Brannstrom

 

[HoweHullOrr]

and at the same time it ensured that they were over the cap .

The Senators were already over the cap floor about a month ago IF (?) that's what you meant.

 

[Orfieus]

conspiracy hat (on): NHL probably stepped in and told Ottawa to do something like this to help out Arizona

conspiracy hat (off): Just a terrible trade by Ottawa

 

[Boud]

The Senators were already over the cap floor about a month ago IF (?) that's what you meant.

In the Tampa deal they unloaded Gaborik(4.8) and Nilsson (2.6) for a total of 7.4M removed from their cap hit.

By adding Stepan, they made sure they were cap compliant and added some extra cushion on the cap to unload a couple guys at the deadline.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Chabot - Plug
Wolanin - Plug
Plug - Plug
Brannstrom

Thanks. I imagine Zaitsev (we traded him to you guys) is in there somewhere. Not sure where though.

Besides Brannstrom & Wolanin, are there any other prospects expected to make the leap? I don't know much about Wolanin. I don't think he's played many games in the NHL. Would he be able to handle 2nd pair duties?

 

[HoweHullOrr]

A few things about Stepan that cannot be said for most of the other available C's is that:
A) He is comfortable being deployed in difficult minutes and plays a responsible, straight-forward game
B) He is capable on both special teams
C) He had no real choice as to where he was gonna play this upcoming season

Demand for players is higher than ever, and UFAs dont tend to flock to Ottawa. I dont love the trade, as I would have thought we could have gotten Stepan for less, but I still think we can flip him for something nice at the deadline - he will get a chance to step up offensively, and everyone already knows he can handle himself defensively. If he has a good season offensively, I suspect he will be sought after as a Stastney-lite type rental.

If you weren't one of the top 3 or so free agents, the demand expressed was for reasonable one-year contracts. That's how I'd put it and that would be more accurate imho. This was a buyers market if there ever was one!

 

[NyQuil]

Thanks. I imagine Zaitsev (we traded him to you guys) is in there somewhere. Not sure where though.

Besides Brannstrom & Wolanin, are there any other prospects expected to make the leap? I don't know much about Wolanin. I don't think he's played many games in the NHL. Would he be able to handle 2nd pair duties?

Wolanin is one of the few defensive prospects who was on the cusp of really breaking out. Unfortunately, he suffered a torn labrum in camp and missed ~four months. Good vision, smooth player. He's 25 though so not so much of a prospect at this point.

Lajoie made some noise early but I think expectations are a bit more muted now. Lassi Thomson was promising but has struggled since his draft year.

Brannstrom didn't make an immediate impact but settled in nicely into the AHL, so I'm curious to see his development.

Now we have Sanderson and Kleven to factor in a few years down the road.

As for this upcoming season, I expect Zaitsev and Gudbranson to play the other two positions in the top four.

Some are hoping Gudbranson plays the Methot role with Chabot but giving him that much ice time could be disastrous.

That leaves Zub, Brown, Coburn, Reilly and Brannstrom.

It really boggles the mind why we have so many mediocre defencemen.

In short, our defensive squad does not look capable of a playoff spot.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

In the Tampa deal they unloaded Gaborik(4.8) and Nilsson (2.6) for a total of 7.4M removed from their cap hit.

By adding Stepan, they made sure they were cap compliant and added some extra cushion on the cap to unload a couple guys at the deadline.

Oh I see, but wouldn't those players just go on LTIR anyhow keeping the Senators above cap floor?