Proposal: Ott-Anaheim

[Spotlight]

Seeing as how Anaheim needs to make the cap floor:

Would there be merit to swapping Zaitvev+Brannstrom for Shattenkirk?

It adds a bit of cap to them (still not enough to make the cap floor) but still... and gives us an upgrade on RD from Zaitsev.

Shattenkirk is on the last year of his deal and is still producing decently with decent minutes. It's low risk seeing as he's on his last year of his deal.

thoughts?

Click to read more...

 

[jbeck5]

Seeing as how Anaheim needs to make the cap floor:

Would there be merit to swapping Zaitvev+Brannstrom for Shattenkirk?

It adds a bit of cap to them (still not enough to make the cap floor) but still... and gives us an upgrade on RD from Zaitsev.

Shattenkirk is on the last year of his deal and is still producing decently with decent minutes. It's low risk seeing as he's on his last year of his deal.

thoughts?

I'm guessing bran has lost enough value that he's not enough. He probably has the value of a third round pick at this point, so we would probably have to add a 2nd to make it work.

Shattenkirk for zaitsev+brannstrom+2nd

 

[cudi]

thought this was gonna be about the whooping we took in the finals

 

[MMC]

Sure I’d do it, but I’m still pretty high on Brannstrom

 

[JD1]

I'm guessing bran has lost enough value that he's not enough. He probably has the value of a third round pick at this point, so we would probably have to add a 2nd to make it work.

Shattenkirk for zaitsev+brannstrom+2nd

At 22 year old D man coming off 53 games at almost 20 minutes a night that can run an NHL PP.

I'm thinking there's more value than that.

 

[jbeck5]

At 22 year old D man coming off 53 games at almost 20 minutes a night that can run an NHL PP.

I'm thinking there's more value than that.

There's a reason you used games played and minutes played to make your argument instead of anything to do with production.

We all know he got those minutes on the powerplay because of Chabots injury. He beat out guys like Holden and harmonic for powerplay time...coooool.

Look, I want him to succeed, but he doesn't have much trade value at this point. Similar to filatov(though he had attitude issues which hurt his value, but he did start with more value) eventually you keep not producing at the NHL level and your value falls to that of a 3rd round pick.

If he comes in and produces at a 30+ point pace, his value will rise back up to a 2nd, but if he comes in and does nothing offensively again, he could slide even more.

 

[playasRus]

Probably depends on how the pro scouts on the teams view Brannstrom. I'd imagine some might still see late 1st value in him, others may see late 2nd value in him.

Chabot - Zub
Hamonic - Shattenkirk
Sanderson - Hamonic

Not sure Shattenkirk is much better than Brannstrom at this stage in his career - but all we're doing is getting rid of Zaitsev which seems like quite the feat this offseason.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

So we just start up threads for trade suggestions now vs using the trade thread .. cool.

 

[JD1]

There's a reason you used games played and minutes played to make your argument instead of anything to do with production.

We all know he got those minutes on the powerplay because of Chabots injury. He beat out guys like Holden and harmonic for powerplay time...coooool.

Look, I want him to succeed, but he doesn't have much trade value at this point. Similar to filatov(though he had attitude issues which hurt his value, but he did start with more value) eventually you keep not producing at the NHL level and your value falls to that of a 3rd round pick.

If he comes in and produces at a 30+ point pace, his value will rise back up to a 2nd, but if he comes in and does nothing offensively again, he could slide even more.

Yes, because he played the games and minutes. Look at his draft class. 5 D taken in a row. He's played more than any of them. And has lost time to injury.

He did get the PP minutes because of Chabot's injury and he looked quite good in that spot. It's why I mentioned it. He played at a 22 point pace. I think there's plenty of room for him to post more points, especially with the team looking like it's improved the offence considerably

 

[Adele Dazeem]

So we just start up threads for trade suggestions now vs using the trade thread .. cool.

Not cool. Same goes for this proposal.

 

[jbeck5]

Yes, because he played the games and minutes. Look at his draft class. 5 D taken in a row. He's played more than any of them. And has lost time to injury.

He did get the PP minutes because of Chabot's injury and he looked quite good in that spot. It's why I mentioned it. He played at a 22 point pace. I think there's plenty of room for him to post more points, especially with the team looking like it's improved the offence considerably

Ok, now make him look good using last year's production. Not games played.

 

[Micklebot]

Ok, now make him look good using last year's production. Not games played.

I'd rather evaluate players based on their play and fundamentals than small sample of boxscores. He moves the puck up ice well, and does a good job of setting up him linemates, the production will come if he continues to get icetime. I'm not worried about his play with the puck, he just needs to be more consistent with his play in his own end.

 

[Qward]

Shat is not leaving Cali for Ottawa.

 

[jbeck5]

I'd rather evaluate players based on their play and fundamentals than small sample of boxscores. He moves the puck up ice well, and does a good job of setting up him linemates, the production will come if he continues to get icetime. I'm not worried about his play with the puck, he just needs to be more consistent with his play in his own end.

Unfortunately for a small, offensive defenseman, having not much production for 5 years after being drafted is going to hurt your stock big time. I'm surprised this is even a debate.

No one uses those arguments when there's a big sample size of no production. You know who moves the puck up the ice well too? Mete. But he's litterally useless for production of any kind...which hurts his value. Same with brannstrom. He had zero goals in 52 games. He has 2 goals in 116 games. Offensive defenseman should be scoring more than that.

You always hear that you don't know what you have until 200GP. If he plays a full season he's about there...so if he doesn't produce, he could lose almost all value by the end of the year.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Seeing as how Anaheim needs to make the cap floor:

Would there be merit to swapping Zaitvev+Brannstrom for Shattenkirk?

It adds a bit of cap to them (still not enough to make the cap floor) but still... and gives us an upgrade on RD from Zaitsev.

Shattenkirk is on the last year of his deal and is still producing decently with decent minutes. It's low risk seeing as he's on his last year of his deal.

thoughts?

Silverberg will be off IR by camp, that makes them compliant

 

[Micklebot]

This is all over the place...

Unfortunately for a small, offensive defenseman, having not much production for 5 years after being drafted is going to hurt your stock big time. I'm surprised this is even a debate.

He's produced at the AHL level, and has a small sample of inconsistant production at the NHL level. He produced well last year given his role, and not as well this year, but the fundamentals were there, hence my comment. Yes, if he continues to struggle to produce it will be concerning, and in the meantime his stock has suffered because we haven't gotten immediate results, but the point being made was there are still signs he will do fine.

No one uses those arguments when there's a big sample size of no production. You know who moves the puck up the ice well too? Mete. But he's litterally useless for production of any kind...which hurts his value. Same with brannstrom. He had zero goals in 52 games. He has 2 goals in 116 games. Offensive defenseman should be scoring more than that.

No, people don't use the argument that small samples makes projecting based on production unreliable when they have large samples...

Not sure why you're bringing up Mete, he really doesn't show the same offensive fundamentals Brannstrom does. He's also never produced even as well as Brannstrom did this year. Mete is good at one thing, skating with the puck. That's it. If you see them as equivalent in terms of their offensive skillset or effectiveness, there we aren't going to see eye to eye here.

You always hear that you don't know what you have until 200GP. If he plays a full season he's about there...so if he doesn't produce, he could lose almost all value by the end of the year.

Ok? The whole argument has been that he's doing the things that will lead to production over the long haul, so lets be patient and not let a small sample push us into knee jerk reactions. Given reasonable icetime and some 2nd unit PP usage, I expect him to land in the 30-40 pts range over 82 games. If he gets relegated to bottom pair with minimal icetime, he'll probably be closer to 20 pts. His biggest challenge is going to be finding icetime with Chabot and Sanderson in the lineup, I don't think he'll be used on his offside, so that might be tough.

 

[jbeck5]

This is all over the place...


He's produced at the AHL level, and has a small sample of inconsistant production at the NHL level. He produced well last year given his role, and not as well this year, but the fundamentals were there, hence my comment. Yes, if he continues to struggle to produce it will be concerning, and in the meantime his stock has suffered because we haven't gotten immediate results, but the point being made was there are still signs he will do fine.



No, people don't use the argument that small samples makes projecting based on production unreliable when they have large samples...

Not sure why you're bringing up Mete, he really doesn't show the same offensive fundamentals Brannstrom does. He's also never produced even as well as Brannstrom did this year. Mete is good at one thing, skating with the puck. That's it. If you see them as equivalent in terms of their offensive skillset or effectiveness, there we aren't going to see eye to eye here.


Ok? The whole argument has been that he's doing the things that will lead to production over the long haul, so lets be patient and not let a small sample push us into knee jerk reactions. Given reasonable icetime and some 2nd unit PP usage, I expect him to land in the 30-40 pts range over 82 games. If he gets relegated to bottom pair with minimal icetime, he'll probably be closer to 20 pts. His biggest challenge is going to be finding icetime with Chabot and Sanderson in the lineup, I don't think he'll be used on his offside, so that might be tough.

My argument was solely that his stock has suffered significantly. So we seem to agree in the first paragraph, but you keep arguing.

Right now we just have samples of very inconsistent production, and lack of production at the NHL level.

I'm bringing up mete not because their skillset is similar. I'm showing you how quickly small defenseman who don't put up numbers lose value. A few years ago mete had value. Now he's waiver fodder because he never learned to produce..I'm showing mete as brannstroms future if he puts up shitty numbers this year. He'll be boarderline waiver fodder. If not by next year, the year after. My point has always been that his value is declining fast and nothing more. I don't see their skills as the same and obviously see brannstrom as having more offensive potential. The thing I'm saying is, I also thought mete had more offensive potential a few years ago. You have to actually realize that potential or your value will fall.

Those are some lofty expectations that I would assume most won't think he'll hit this year. The other thing is, this is widely regarded as a bottom 10 D in the league. If he can't crack it and get a decent amount of ice time in his 6th year after being drafted on a weak D, how much value does he really have?

He used to have 1st round pick value. Good luck finding any team trading their first straight up for brannstrom.

Heck, do you think if you created a value of thread, that anyone would be willing to give their 2nd straight up for brannstrom? Maybeeeee as top team like Tampa and it's a late second? More likely, teams would be offering their 3rd round pick for him is my guess.

So my whole point is that his value has gone down and down because of things like size, lack of production, lack of being able to rise on a weak team. If he can't produce or even be a top 4 on a very weak team by age 23, his value simply won't be there.

He's worth maybe a late 2nd, most likely a 3rd...and his value will fall even more without proper offensive production this year.

if you agree with the bolded, there isn't much reason to argue as that's my main argument.

 

[Spotlight]

So we just start up threads for trade suggestions now vs using the trade thread .. cool.

Not cool. Same goes for this proposal.

The Trade thread is locked FYI and the new thread is free agent frenzy (not a trade thread)

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

The Trade thread is locked FYI and the new thread is free agent frenzy (not a trade thread)

Seems reasonable

 

[Micklebot]

My argument was solely that his stock has suffered significantly. So we seem to agree in the first paragraph, but you keep arguing.

Right now we just have samples of very inconsistent production, and lack of production at the NHL level.

I'm bringing up mete not because their skillset is similar. I'm showing you how quickly small defenseman who don't put up numbers lose value. A few years ago mete had value. Now he's waiver fodder because he never learned to produce..I'm showing mete as brannstroms future if he puts up shitty numbers this year. He'll be boarderline waiver fodder. If not by next year, the year after. My point has always been that his value is declining fast and nothing more. I don't see their skills as the same and obviously see brannstrom as having more offensive potential. The thing I'm saying is, I also thought mete had more offensive potential a few years ago. You have to actually realize that potential or your value will fall.

Those are some lofty expectations that I would assume most won't think he'll hit this year. The other thing is, this is widely regarded as a bottom 10 D in the league. If he can't crack it and get a decent amount of ice time in his 6th year after being drafted on a weak D, how much value does he really have?

He used to have 1st round pick value. Good luck finding any team trading their first straight up for brannstrom.

Heck, do you think if you created a value of thread, that anyone would be willing to give their 2nd straight up for brannstrom? Maybeeeee as top team like Tampa and it's a late second? More likely, teams would be offering their 3rd round pick for him is my guess.

So my whole point is that his value has gone down and down because of things like size, lack of production, lack of being able to rise on a weak team. If he can't produce or even be a top 4 on a very weak team by age 23, his value simply won't be there.

He's worth maybe a late 2nd, most likely a 3rd...and his value will fall even more without proper offensive production this year.

if you agree with the bolded, there isn't much reason to argue as that's my main argument.

I mean, Romanov returned 13 OA, I think the market for young D with potential is a bit wonky. Hard to say what Brannstrom is worth on the market. Is it less than it was when he was the main piece coming back for Stone, of course. Is it a 3rd? I don't think so. You say my projection is lofty, but it's essentially what he was pacing at in 2020-21. Add the last two seasons together and he's got 27 pts in 83 games, not far off of where I'm suggesting he could land with consistent icetime and a bit of development over that time. This year, our team has significantly more depth up front too which should only help with our depth Dmen's production.

 

[Xspyrit]

Ok, now make him look good using last year's production. Not games played.

Not to "make him look good" and I didn't read the whole thread but Brannstrom has 27 pts in 83 GP since 2020-21, as a 21 and 22 y/o undersized D-man

Also, let's keep in mind he played maybe half of his games with Josh Brown (not NHL caliber IMO)

The problem with Brannstrom was the unrealistic expectations from the start. Like I said since the beginning, he'll most likely land somewhere in between Tobias Enstrom and Torey Krug

Now is not the time to sell HIGH on him but I think he could still return a 2nd. GMs have seen him for a while, they know his game is still a work in progress but they know he has several qualities

 

[bicboi64]

If it gets rid of Zaitsev I'd be open to the move, but Shattenkirk isn't really an upgrade and not sure how good he'll be defensively. Then again, might be a good scenario where JBD or Thomson can earn their spot by outplaying Shattenkirk (then again, I'm hoping they outplay Zaitsev)