Other Chicago & General Sports Thread LVIII: Hamels & Kintzler are Cubs

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piteus

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Disagree about that Bulls team taking out Mavs

Bulls had no one to matchup with Dirk and the Mavs had better team offensively and took out the Heat in 6 , A Heat team that outside of game 1 didn't have much trouble with Bulls in ECF
The only reason the Mavs beat the Heat was JJ Berea schooling LeBron. LeBron refused to post up JJ Berea! He wouldn't shoot. What was that all about?

Deng wasn't the perfect defender, but he was long enough to stay him. And Taj was pretty athletic when he was young.

Who was going to defend MVP DRose? Berea? Kidd? Stevenson? Terry? LOL.

Chandler wasn't going to dominate the boards against Noah.

The Bulls were 62-20. They would have been favorites. The only advantage the Mavs had was Rick Carlisle.
 

clydesdale line

Connor BeJesus
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I'm not a Cubs fan obviously, but I think I would do that deal. That's the type of deal that can win you a World Series.

So would I (and it would make the Cubs more likeable in my book sending Russell out :laugh:). Baez playing SS full time and the Cubs don't miss a beat there. I've had a man crush on Happ since he was drafted so that'll sting for them, but DeGrom is a stud. I'm sure Cubs fans would rather have the younger guy in Thor, but I highly doubt they have the ammo there. But still getting DeGrom would be a Verlander type changing acquisition IMO especially him pitching behind that elite defense.
 

Easy E

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The more I think about it, the more I want them to go get deGrom.

Losing both Russell AND Happ would be tough one tho.

Gotta stay competitive for next couple years.
 

ColdSteel2

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The more I think about it, the more I want them to go get deGrom.

Losing both Russell AND Happ would be tough one tho.

Gotta stay competitive for next couple years.

Happ and Russell don’t figure to be around long term anyway. Bryant and Baez are getting mega deals. After that, I’m not sure how many guys we can keep, will come down to who will sign the right deal for us.
Both of those guys are below Contreras on the totem pole. If the DH comes to NL, Schwarber is above them too. That’s your core, Bryant, Baez, Schwarber and Contreras. Rizzo has 3 more years after this one, just ride it out and let him walk if he wants too much.

I want nothing to do with Harper or Machado. Pay whatever free agent money we have to relievers like Kimbrell and Miller on shorter term deals.
 

Say Hey Kid

The best all around player ever
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The mic didn't work for the guest singer. Been watchin since 66 and never saw that before. Before 89 when WGN had 150 day games on was the best time ever.

Bryant HR!
 

piteus

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Happ and Russell don’t figure to be around long term anyway. Bryant and Baez are getting mega deals. After that, I’m not sure how many guys we can keep, will come down to who will sign the right deal for us.
Both of those guys are below Contreras on the totem pole. If the DH comes to NL, Schwarber is above them too. That’s your core, Bryant, Baez, Schwarber and Contreras. Rizzo has 3 more years after this one, just ride it out and let him walk if he wants too much.

I want nothing to do with Harper or Machado. Pay whatever free agent money we have to relievers like Kimbrell and Miller on shorter term deals.
Huh? Addison Russell is under Cubs control for 3 more season after this. That means he plays with the Cubs in the 2019, 2020, and 2021 season before he becomes a UFA.

Ian Happ has 5 more seasons after this under control. That means Happ plays the 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, and 2023 season before he becomes a UFA.

Where do people get all this misinformation? If the Cubs want, both Russell and Happ can play for the Cubs for years before they hit free agency.
 

Bubba88

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Overall Defense is system and coaching more than just a player skill. Good or great players will always score on you because that's what they do.
Problem with the Bulls is not Paxson, it's JR. Ownership is the reason they suck and this will continue unless they get the next GoaT.
 

ColdSteel2

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Huh? Addison Russell is under Cubs control for 3 more season after this. That means he plays with the Cubs in the 2019, 2020, and 2021 season before he becomes a UFA.

Ian Happ has 5 more seasons after this under control. That means Happ plays the 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, and 2023 season before he becomes a UFA.

Where do people get all this misinformation? If the Cubs want, both Russell and Happ can play for the Cubs for years before they hit free agency.

They just see what they want to see instead of comprehending the discussion of who stays and who goes centers around the long term, not the short term. That means the trade off is 3.5 years of Russell and 5.5 years of Happ or 2.5 years of deGrom. When you look at it in those terms, it’s easier to see why we would make such a trade.
 

piteus

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They just see what they want to see instead of comprehending the discussion of who stays and who goes centers around the long term, not the short term. That means the trade off is 3.5 years of Russell and 5.5 years of Happ or 2.5 years of deGrom. When you look at it in those terms, it’s easier to see why we would make such a trade.
You mentioned Baez and Bryant getting MEGA deals that will prevent the Cubs from keeping Russell and Happ. That could be true ... but do you know they are under Cubs control for 3.5 years too?

I have no issues with making a run at deGrom, but do you know his agent is already angling the Mets for a lucrative extension? I just don't understand your logic. deGrom is probably going to cost the Cubs just as much money as re signing both Russell and Happ EXCEPT sooner. And it's not like the Cubs haven't sunk most of their payroll into starting pitching (Lester, Darvish, Chatwood, and Quintana).

People are entitled to their opinions. I don't see how your argument is logical. The Cubs don't have to give mega deals to Baez and Bryant for 3.5 years. Russell and Happ are under control for 3.5 and 5.5 years, respectively. deGrom is under control for 2.5 years but his agent is already angling for a lucrative extension. deGrom, as an ace on a pricing staff, will probably command just as much if not more money than Russell & Happ combined.

Hence, money and timing (if not sooner) won't be much different for deGrom vs. Russell and Happ. If you're arguing for payroll reallocation from hitters to starting pitching, that makes more sense ... but the Cubs have most of their current payroll skewed towards starting pitching already.

I'm a fan of logic.
 
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Sarava

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You mentioned Baez and Bryant getting MEGA deals that will prevent the Cubs from keeping Russell and Happ. That could be true ... but do you know they are under Cubs control for 3.5 years too?

I have no issues with making a run at deGrom, but do you know his agent is already angling the Mets for a lucrative extension? I just don't understand your logic. deGrom is probably going to cost the Cubs just as much money as re signing both Russell and Happ EXCEPT sooner. And it's not like the Cubs haven't sunk most of their payroll into starting pitching (Lester, Darvish, Chatwood, and Quintana).

People are entitled to their opinions. I don't see how your argument is logical. The Cubs don't have to give mega deals to Baez and Bryant for 3.5 years. Russell and Happ are under control for 3.5 and 5.5 years, respectively. deGrom is under control for 2.5 years but his agent is already angling for a lucrative extension. deGrom, as an ace on a pricing staff, will probably command just as much if not more money than Russell & Happ combined.

Hence, money and timing (if not sooner) won't be much different for deGrom vs. Russell and Happ. If you're arguing for payroll reallocation from hitters to starting pitching, that makes more sense ... but the Cubs have most of their current payroll skewed towards starting pitching already.

I'm a fan of logic.

I agree with coldsteel.

Yeah there's more control of Happ and Russell than deGrom. But who cares? It's not about control or contracts, but about winning the World Series.

We all watch the playoffs. Hitting usually gets you to the playoffs, but dominate pitching carries teams to World Series titles time after time. Look at the Astros last year. They had a ridiculous offense, but the bats were silent for much of the playoffs. Their dominant pitching won them the World Series. Specifically, the trade for Verlander probably brought them that title. The Cubs bringing in deGrom would be a very similar type of move.

And the great thing for the Cubs is - they can move Russell and Happ and not hurt their team a lot, other than depth. That's where they would be vulnerable, if there's injuries. Baez replaces Russell, Zobrist plays 2B, done.

Basically you greatly improve your chances of winning a World Series again in the next 3 tries, while hurting the future beyond that a bit. And with as good as Theo is at bringing in young talent, I'd be confident he would have new studs coming up by then.
 

piteus

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I agree with coldsteel.

Yeah there's more control of Happ and Russell than deGrom. But who cares? It's not about control or contracts, but about winning the World Series.

We all watch the playoffs. Hitting usually gets you to the playoffs, but dominate pitching carries teams to World Series titles time after time. Look at the Astros last year. They had a ridiculous offense, but the bats were silent for much of the playoffs. Their dominant pitching won them the World Series. Specifically, the trade for Verlander probably brought them that title. The Cubs bringing in deGrom would be a very similar type of move.

And the great thing for the Cubs is - they can move Russell and Happ and not hurt their team a lot, other than depth. That's where they would be vulnerable, if there's injuries. Baez replaces Russell, Zobrist plays 2B, done.

Basically you greatly improve your chances of winning a World Series again in the next 3 tries, while hurting the future beyond that a bit. And with as good as Theo is at bringing in young talent, I'd be confident he would have new studs coming up by then.
That's a different argument ... which is logical. It's not about the possibility of losing Russell and Happ because of being forced to sign Baez and Bryant to mega deals in 3.5 years! deGrom is going to cost just as much as Russell and Happ and sooner. deGrom is also 5 years older than both of them.

Your argument is:

* pitching is more important in the playoffs.
* deGrom will most likely win us the World Series now.
* The Cubs should go all in for the next 3 years. We can't think 4-5 years out.

I can't argue with that logic. It's a legitimate argument. However, at 30, I don't know if deGrom will be as good in year 2 & 3 as a pitcher. Is he worth the risk/reward. And is deGrom so good, does he shift the Cubs as favorites over the Dodgers, Yankees, Red Sox, and Astros ... while losing Russell and Happ on the major league roster. Remember, the Dodgers only gave up minor league prospects for Machado.

For some reason, why did I think you were a White Sox fan? My apologies.
 
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Easy E

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Jun 9, 2015
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I agree with coldsteel.

Yeah there's more control of Happ and Russell than deGrom. But who cares? It's not about control or contracts, but about winning the World Series.

We all watch the playoffs. Hitting usually gets you to the playoffs, but dominate pitching carries teams to World Series titles time after time. Look at the Astros last year. They had a ridiculous offense, but the bats were silent for much of the playoffs. Their dominant pitching won them the World Series. Specifically, the trade for Verlander probably brought them that title. The Cubs bringing in deGrom would be a very similar type of move.

And the great thing for the Cubs is - they can move Russell and Happ and not hurt their team a lot, other than depth. That's where they would be vulnerable, if there's injuries. Baez replaces Russell, Zobrist plays 2B, done.

Basically you greatly improve your chances of winning a World Series again in the next 3 tries, while hurting the future beyond that a bit. And with as good as Theo is at bringing in young talent, I'd be confident he would have new studs coming up by then.
That's a different argument ... which is logical. It's not about the possibility of losing Russell and Happ because of being forced to sign Baez and Bryant to mega deals in 3.5 years! deGrom is going to cost just as much as Russell and Happ and sooner. deGrom is also 5 years older than both of them.

Your argument is:

* pitching is more important in the playoffs.
* deGrom will most likely win us the World Series now.
* The Cubs should go all in for the next 3 years. We can't think 4-5 years out.

I can't argue with that logic. It's a legitimate argument. However, at 30, I don't know if deGrom will be as good in year 2 & 3 as a pitcher. Is he worth the risk/reward. And is deGrom so good, does he shift the Cubs as favorites over the Dodgers, Yankees, Red Sox, and Astros ... while losing Russell and Happ on the major league roster. Remember, the Dodgers only gave up minor league prospects for Machado.

For some reason, why did I think you were a White Sox fan? My apologies.

LOL. I feel like Sarava gets blasted everytime he talks about the Cubs. I thought it wasn't really a biased response.

Go for deGrom. Try hard for next 3 years.

Machado is a rental for a half year. deGrom is 2.5 years.

Either way, I trust Theo/Jed will do the right thing for the club.

Road to the World Series is going to be getting past the Dodgers. DeGrom helps us immensely. We need Yu Darvish to do anything too .
 

clydesdale line

Connor BeJesus
Jan 10, 2012
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LOL. I feel like Sarava gets blasted everytime he talks about the Cubs. I thought it wasn't really a biased response.

He literally said the same thing I did.

So would I (and it would make the Cubs more likeable in my book sending Russell out :laugh:). Baez playing SS full time and the Cubs don't miss a beat there. I've had a man crush on Happ since he was drafted so that'll sting for them, but DeGrom is a stud. I'm sure Cubs fans would rather have the younger guy in Thor, but I highly doubt they have the ammo there. But still getting DeGrom would be a Verlander type changing acquisition IMO especially him pitching behind that elite defense.

And yea.. some Cubs are somewhat shocked most Sox fans think logical regardless of team or bias (cough.. Illinihockey.. cough.. KBIB..) :)
 

Illinihockey

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Jun 15, 2010
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Trading Russell significantly hurts the defense and as such significantly hurts the pitching.
 

Sarava

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Yep. I'm a Sox fan through and through. When you live in Chicago (as I and many of you do), it's hard to not be exposed to the other side. I feel like I can contribute in an unbiased way.

And for Cub fans opinions on the Sox - the one I always like to read here is mb's. He doesn't emphasize the negatives as some others do.
 
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