Other Chicago & General Sports Thread LVII: Bulls draft Carter & Hutchison

[HeisenBaez]

Why is Cishek better suited for the save situation? I see Wilson as a much better closer-type. Ideally, Cishek doesn’t come in and give up 2 runs, and then Strop may be able to close.

The fact that Cishek HAS been a closer in his career and was damn good at it is the primary reason. (Check up his stats as closer in 2013/14 and 2016.) Justin Wilson only been a closer for 1/2 season and that was the year he was dealt to the Cubs. Cishek is simply put a better closer option than Wilson. I love Strop but I want to keep him in his current role. If Maddon knew about Morrow's back before the game, I promise you, Cishek would have been saved for the ninth instead of pitching in the 6th.

I don't trust Wilson in any innings past the 7th, period. When everybody is healthy, Wilson would be like fifth on the closer pecking order behind Morrow/Cishek/Strop/Edwards, in that order. Hell, I put Mike Montgomery in as closer before Justin Wilson. Just leave Wilson in the 6-7 inning role.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

Don't have a dog in the fight as I'm not a Cubs fan, but Wilson was the closer for the Tigers last year before he was traded and he was good in that role, although it was for only a few months.

 

[OhCaptainMyCaptain]

Don't have a dog in the fight as I'm not a Cubs fan, but Wilson was the closer for the Tigers last year before he was traded and he was good in that role, although it was for only a few months.

And has also been great the last month, as well.

My point is that I think it’s simply a hindsight thing. Cishek was the one that let the Dodgers back in the game to begin with.

Maddon makes a lot of really stupid bullpen choices. I just don’t think that was one of them. It’s just a difficult situation without both CJ and Morrow. Nobody is really ideal for that role. And like I said, he was literally one strike away from getting out of it, and nobody would have had much of an issue with it.

But speaking of dumb manager moves... Roberts intentionally walking Baez in extras today was an odd one.

 

[TLEH]

Yeah, Cubs are frustrating bunch to watch sometimes. KB is my trigger even though I love the guy.

 

[BK]

Yeah, Cubs are frustrating bunch to watch sometimes. KB is my trigger even though I love the guy.

We all have a Cubs trigger. Mine is Schwarber letting 1st pitch fastballs go right down the middle and Almora not playing more (this has got better).

 

[TLEH]

Guy just seems mentally weak. I love guys who bring in the playoffs, have intensity and make huge plays when it matter. Kris bats like .211 with the bases loaded and you know as soon as the game is a blowout he'll finally hit a homerun.


I mean obviously its not true, he hit a big HR in game 6 in Cleveland, hit a nice double in game 6 against the Dodgers in the NLCS, he has big hits, but idk man

 

[BK]

Guy just seems mentally weak. I love guys who bring in the playoffs, have intensity and make huge plays when it matter. Kris bats like .211 with the bases loaded and you know as soon as the game is a blowout he'll finally hit a homerun.


I mean obviously its not true, he hit a big HR in game 6 in Cleveland, hit a nice double in game 6 against the Dodgers in the NLCS, he has big hits, but idk man

I get what you are saying. He was really good in 2016 and then hit .200 last year. He produces but you aren't wrong about the numbers. That being said I would take him or basically any other 3b in baseball.

 

[OhCaptainMyCaptain]

We all have a Cubs trigger. Mine is Schwarber letting 1st pitch fastballs go right down the middle and Almora not playing more (this has got better).

Mine is walks in general. I cannot stand professional pitchers who can’t throw strikes.

 

[Illinihockey]

So what does everyone want the Bulls to do tomorrow? My preference would be for them to trade up and get Bagley, Doncic, or JJJ. If they stay at 7 I want Porter.

 

[HawksBeerFan]

And has also been great the last month, as well.

My point is that I think it’s simply a hindsight thing. Cishek was the one that let the Dodgers back in the game to begin with.

Maddon makes a lot of really stupid bullpen choices. I just don’t think that was one of them. It’s just a difficult situation without both CJ and Morrow. Nobody is really ideal for that role. And like I said, he was literally one strike away from getting out of it, and nobody would have had much of an issue with it.

But speaking of dumb manager moves... Roberts intentionally walking Baez in extras today was an odd one.

Meh calling his stretch over the last month "great" is definitely a stretch.

Yeah he's been striking out a lot of guys, but he's walked 7 guys per 9 innings over that stretch which is almost Chatwood level bad. His WHIP is 1.43 over the last month as well. Yeah he's gotten good results but he's definitely not been "great."

Cishek was simply a better option.

 

[OhCaptainMyCaptain]

Meh calling his stretch over the last month "great" is definitely a stretch.

Yeah he's been striking out a lot of guys, but he's walked 7 guys per 9 innings over that stretch which is almost Chatwood level bad. His WHIP is 1.43 over the last month as well. Yeah he's gotten good results but he's definitely not been "great."

Cishek was simply a better option.

Not sure where you got those stats.

In 13 appearances in May (12.2 innings), he gave a total of 1 earned run, with a WHIP of 1.02.

Before yesterday, he had six appearances in June (6.1 innings), and he had not given up an earned run yet. Even including yesterday’s outing, his WHIP in the month of June is 1.36.

If you take out yesterday.. in the months of May & June thus far, he pitched 19 innings, gave up 1 ER, gave up 9 hits, and walked 11, which is a WHIP of 1.05.

Now, maybe you have extreme standards, but I’d consider that pretty “great.”

Reference: Justin Wilson Stats, Fantasy & News

 

[hawksrule]

Dwight Howard to the Nets. I’d be more excited if it was 2011.

 

[HawksBeerFan]

Not sure where you got those stats.

In 13 appearances in May (12.2 innings), he gave a total of 1 earned run, with a WHIP of 1.02.

Before yesterday, he had six appearances in June (6.1 innings), and he had not given up an earned run yet. Even including yesterday’s outing, his WHIP in the month of June is 1.36.

If you take out yesterday.. in the months of May & June thus far, he pitched 19 innings, gave up 1 ER, gave up 9 hits, and walked 11, which is a WHIP of 1.05.

Now, maybe you have extreme standards, but I’d consider that pretty “great.”

Reference: Justin Wilson Stats, Fantasy & News

I used the FanGraphs splits tool with a start date of May 19th, and an end date of today (basically the last calendar month)...

Justin Wilson » Splits Tool | FanGraphs Baseball

I stick by my point, his WHIP of 1.46 and 7.3 BB/9 don't qualify as great to me.

 

[ChiHawks10]

Morrow went on the 10 day DL, btw.

 

[OhCaptainMyCaptain]

I used the FanGraphs splits tool with a start date of May 19th, and an end date of today (basically the last calendar month)...

Justin Wilson » Splits Tool | FanGraphs Baseball

I stick by my point, his WHIP of 1.46 and 7.3 BB/9 don't qualify as great to me.

Part of that is because it includes yesterday, which makes no sense. We’re talking about how they were doing coming into the game.

Yeah, Wilson walks a decent amount. Carl Edwards Jr. is wild too, but I’d still want him pitching there is he was healthy.

If all you can do is point to WHIP with Wilson, well I don’t know what to tell you. I guess if you want to ignore K%, LOB%, and earned runs, that’s fine. You keep pointing to WHIP and tell me how he hasn’t been great. I’ll actually look at the other stats and observe the game, which tells me he has been great the past month and a half. Literally one earned run in 19 innings coming into yesterday.. I don’t care how you justify that.. it’s great work. The cubs had multiple great relievers in their pen, and sticking Wilson in the game to close was fine.

It’s also funny that the guy you’re advocating for gave up 2 earned runs in the game, right after the cubs took a 3-run lead.

 

[HawksBeerFan]

Part of that is because it includes yesterday, which makes no sense. We’re talking about how they were doing coming into the game.

Yeah, Wilson walks a decent amount. Carl Edwards Jr. is wild too, but I’d still want him pitching there is he was healthy.

If all you can do is point to WHIP with Wilson, well I don’t know what to tell you. I guess if you want to ignore K%, LOB%, and earned runs, that’s fine. You keep pointing to WHIP and tell me how he hasn’t been great. I’ll actually look at the other stats and observe the game, which tells me he has been great the past month and a half. Literally one earned run in 19 innings coming into yesterday.. I don’t care how you justify that.. it’s great work. The cubs had multiple great relievers in their pen, and sticking Wilson in the game to close was fine.

If you update the splits to not include yesterday, his WHIP is still 1.32 and his BB/9 is 7.1, both are not great numbers.

The point is that if Wilson was truly great then he wouldn't be letting guys get on base at those rates. Yes his LOB% is in the 90s but that's generally seen as something similar to BABIP, it's a stat that normalizes, and actually suggests his performance will regress. I'm not arguing he hasn't been great at not allowing runs, I'm arguing he hasn't pitched great because even though he's been able to get out of stuff, he's been letting a lot of guys on base.

It's similar to Chatwood, has he been good because he hasn't allowed a ton of runs and his LOB% is above his career average?

If you want to say Wilson closing was "fine" then yeah I'd agree. It's definitely less desirable to me than having Storp or Cishek in that spot though.

 

[OhCaptainMyCaptain]

If you update the splits to not include yesterday, his WHIP is still 1.32 and his BB/9 is 7.1, both are not great numbers.

The point is that if Wilson was truly great then he wouldn't be letting guys get on base at those rates. Yes his LOB% is in the 90s but that's generally seen as something similar to BABIP, it's a stat that normalizes, and actually suggests his performance will regress. I'm not arguing he hasn't been great at not allowing runs, I'm arguing he hasn't pitched great because even though he's been able to get out of stuff, he's been letting a lot of guys on base.

It's similar to Chatwood, has he been good because he hasn't allowed a ton of runs and his LOB% is above his career average?

If you want to say Wilson closing was "fine" then yeah I'd agree. It's definitely less desirable to me than having Storp or Cishek in that spot though.

We’ll Chatwood has an ERA around 4, where Wilson had an ERA of 0.79 over the last month heading into yesterday. Chatwood also has a much lower K/9 innings, a higher HR/9, and also has a higher hits given up per nine innings as well.

I never said even said Wilson was the best pitcher on the Cubs right now, but he’s been more than good enough for the Cubs this year.

 

[HawksBeerFan]

We’ll Chatwood has an ERA around 4, where Wilson had an ERA of 0.79 over the last month heading into yesterday. Chatwood also has a much lower K/9 innings, a higher HR/9, and also has a higher hits given up per nine innings as well.

I never said even said Wilson was the best pitcher on the Cubs right now, but he’s been more than good enough for the Cubs this year.

I brought up Chatwood to illustrate that using earned runs isn't the best way to forecast future success, not to directly compare their numbers. Obviously Wilson has been better than Chatwood, and my point is not even that Wilson has been bad. He just hasn't been great, and the underlying numbers show that pretty clearly.

My main point initially too was that Cishek was a better option. Over the last month for Cishek... 13.5 K/9, 0.9 BB/9. Strop was a better option than Wilson too.

 

[piteus]

The Hornets wanted Donovan Mitchell in last year's draft. MJ overruled and picked Malik Monk. It appears to be a true story. LOL.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

I know he has an ego and thinks he knows better than everyone, but you'd think that MJ would realize by now that he's just not up to snuff when it comes to identifying talent and take a hands off approach.

 

[BK]

That throw was so good and the tag was even better. Love how AA and JH are howling as they run in.

 

[Rooh]

For the Bulls tomorrow...
1. Bamba
2A. Trae
2B. Wendell

Anything else would feel disappointing, think they should absolutely trade up for JJJ or even Bamba, both players declined to workout for Memphis.

 

[BK]

For the Bulls tomorrow...
1. Bamba
2A. Trae
2B. Wendell

Anything else would feel disappointing, think they should absolutely trade up for JJJ or even Bamba, both players declined to workout for Memphis.

Take the Parson's deal from Memphis and get their pick...please.

 

[OhCaptainMyCaptain]

What a great - and much needed - outing from Lester today.

 

[TLEH]

What a great - and much needed - outing from Lester today.

Guys been nails